New Spirit in the Air

[harvyk]

Um you eat Hungry Jacks... And you can't find anything more decent in the QF pub?! Choke.... You could stuff your face at the new candy bars and still be ahead cholesterol wise...

It's about the only time I do...
I have not yet seen the new candy bars of which you speak... (probably a good thing)

Given I'm not a big fan of cheese, and there is only so many times I can eat cake, and when ever hot food comes out it gets swarmed on like a pack of seagulls, I'm kinda limited for food in the QP.

 

[markis10]

Cliff notes:

Airline policy in Australia is to educate their pilots to believe the PED may have an adverse effect on aircraft safety. It is not compulsory for pilots/airlines to believe this.

Regulation is such in the USA that the airlines/pilots must prohibit or limit the operation of a PED on board an aircraft to specific circumstances. It is compulsory.

There has been a couple of airworthiness advisories issued that do specifically list what is pilot discretion, what is prohibited etc etc, in that context its very much compulsory. The legal structure of aviation safety provides for broad legislation that is then updated/clarified by ADs, AACs & ABs which do away with the need to raise a specific CAR & CASRs until the issue becomes a dogs breakfast, which is no doubt the case with PEDs.

Of of the AACs issued in 2003 referenced the CASRs and used the data within [FONT=&quot]Federal Aviation Regulation 91.21[/FONT] as well as RTCA DO-223 to illustrate what was required of airlines to meet their obligations under CASR 91.055, it replaced the proposed AC091-50.

All of this is being replaced by an updated CASR91, which has very precise and strict controls on the use of PEDs but is not yet law:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - CASR Part 91 - General operating and flight rules

 

[serfty]

Revised Cliff Notes

There has been a couple of airworthiness advisories ...
...a dogs breakfast, which is no doubt the case with PEDs....

Australian regulation is soon to contextually imitate US legislation in respect to PEDs ...

 

[froggerADL]

With all the people here who don't switch off their devices, I certainly hope there is no chance that they could cause a serious incident.

 

[serfty]

I always switch off my devices.

Recently I saw an iPhone owner asked to turn off. He "did" and showed the FA. To my surprise she told him to "really" turn it off.

She watched as he hit the sleep/wake button and then running the slider across the screen.

Wierd ...:-|

BTW, this was before a T-T AirNZ flight.

 

[dizperliz]

Electronic device use has been extended to cabin prepare point.

 

[medhead]

I always switch off my devices.

Recently I saw an iPhone owner asked to turn off. He "did" and showed the FA. To my surprise she told him to "really" turn it off.

She watched as he hit the sleep/wake button and then running the slider across the screen.

Wierd ...:-|

BTW, this was before a T-T AirNZ flight.

I kindly demonstrated to an FA and CSM the iphone turn off method once in J, when they were having a discussion about a Y passenger not knowing how to turn it off.

 

[simongr]

Electronic device use has been extended to cabin prepare point.

Can you clarify what you mean? Does this now mean longer PED use onboard?

Is that a policy change as a result of this thread?

@medhead - gee thanks for that

 

[Justchecking]

Another reason why PEDs can't be used after cabin prep for landing but IFE can is this. Noise cancelling earbuds\headsets. The IFE is interrupted by the PA system so you will not miss crew instructions by being plugged into the IFE. But obviously PEDs will continue on no matter what PA's are being made.

I own a cheap set of noise cancelling earbuds and can assure you that they completely block out 100% of a PA being made onboard when I am plugged into a PED. To the extent that I am completely unaware of a PA being made.

Emergencies are most likely to occur during the takeoff\landing phases and that is why the airlines don't want you oblivious during those phases. It's just a fact that the cabin has to be prepared for landing at around -20 before landing in order to allow everything to be secured and the crew to be seated before the gear comes down. It's not as if there is time once gear down to then go through the cabin and make sure no-one's plugged into their PED.

If you're going to ban the use of one type of PED you really have to ban them all for practicality purposes. An iPad can be used to read a book, yes, but it can also be used to listen to music or a movie. It's not practical to say, ok you're reading the newspaper on your iPad so that's ok but you're listening to music so that isn't.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I own a cheap set of noise cancelling earbuds and can assure you that they completely block out 100% of a PA being made onboard when I am plugged into a PED. To the extent that I am completely unaware of a PA being made.

t.

Which brand??I have some Sony's and I can definitely hear the intro of PA announcements clearly enough to switch off and listen. What I can't hear is the aircraft noise.

 

[dizperliz]

From today, ED's are able to be used until the point of prepare cabin PA. So in most cases beyond the point of descent.

 

[Justchecking]

Which brand??I have some Sony's and I can definitely hear the intro of PA announcements clearly enough to switch off and listen. What I can't hear is the aircraft noise.

That's because you have a quality pair. High-end noise cancelling headphones will only filter out noise not within the range of the human voice, hence the reason why you can hear a PA but not the engine noise. Cheap ones however are like ear muffs, they block out all external noise so all you can hear is the sound being transmitted. Flight attendants can't be expected to know exactly which headphones allow someone to hear voices and which ones do not. That would be ridiculous to expect it. The easy solution is to just make sure no-one is listening to any device which may distract from your awareness of an onboard emergency during takeoff and landing.

FYI - Mine are Ultimate Ears Metro 100. $30 jobbies. Nice for the price but not high-end by any means.

It's interesting because very obviously the pace of change within airline policies or casa regulations is being outstripped by the pace of technology. The rise of the iPod type device has changed so much about the way we live in it's short introduction onto the market. Most people I know can't go 5mins now without txting on their iPhone or similar. To take one of these devices away from that person for even a short period of time causes a near freak out.

 

[simongr]

From today, ED's are able to be used until the point of prepare cabin PA. So in most cases beyond the point of descent.

Thanks - noted today that it was "prepare the cabin for landing and turn of electronics" - though that was still 20-25 mins from landing

Flight attendants can't be expected to know exactly which headphones allow someone to hear voices and which ones do not. That would be ridiculous to expect it. The easy solution is to just make sure no-one is listening to any device which may distract from your awareness of an onboard emergency during takeoff and landing.

whilst i see the logic of this argument I also think it is not being entirely practical. I could be wearing ear plugs or be deaf or just distracted. I have also slept through from 30 mins before landing to being at the gate.

Practically if the brace position was announced most people would see it even if they didn't hear it.

 

[simongr]

FYI - Mine are Ultimate Ears Metro 100. $30 jobbies. Nice for the price but not high-end by any means.

for the record those are noise isolating rather than noise cancelling - hense Fi's confusion

 

[Justchecking]

whilst i see the logic of this argument I also think it is not being entirely practical. I could be wearing ear plugs or be deaf or just distracted. I have also slept through from 30 mins before landing to being at the gate.

And that's exactly why airlines have blanket rules, because people argue fine points and details. Sure they can't make sure everyone is awake and deaf people exist too. But they have to draw a line somewhere to cover themselves with a certain measure of attempts at keeping everyone onboard safe. Certainly a cabin of mostly alert and undistracted people is considered more safe than a cabin full of people rocking out on their ipods.

The operative words here are 'reasonable attempts'. An airline can't control what every single person does. But if they make reasonable attempts to ensure most people will hear an emergency PA or crew emergency commands then that's their duty of care to do so. Whether or not you think it's personally convenient is quite beside the point.

 

[N860CR]

There are CASRs (which is where you would expect a safety issue to surface) which do cover this:

CASR 91.055 requires the operator and the pilot in command to prohibit or limit the operation of a PED on board an aircraft if there is reason to believe the PED may adversely affect the safety of the aircraft. CASR’s 91.050, 91.055 and 91.1010 provides the pilot in command with the necessary authority to control the use of potentially hazardous PEDs on board his/her aircraft, and obliges persons on board to comply with legitimate safety instructions.

There is no requirement for an operator (or crew) to restrict the use of PED's (as the CASR states). The difference between our regulations and the Americans is that we leave the decision to the operator (and our airlines have chosen to play it safe).

 

[dk4]

QF catches up with DJ

Good to hear QF has finally aligned with DJ.

DJ - electronics off on final descent, is when seat belt sign is lit.

~=

QF - electronics off on final descent, now at "prepare the cabin".


(Note: QF seat belt sign is lit + "all passengers & crew must now be seated, with seat belts..." PA ~= DJ "cabin crew seated for landing" PA )

 

[browski]

I often travel with my pet snake, Boris, in my cabin bag. I leave his heat rock on because I don't want him to get too cold. I have not once been asked to switch it off.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I often travel with my pet snake, Boris, in my cabin bag. I leave his heat rock on because I don't want him to get too cold. I have not once been asked to switch it off.

Snakes on a plane??

I'll get me coat.