New TRS rules? Goods no longer included in cap?

[DC3]

Fairly common knowledge I suspect, I've known it for more years than I care to remember HN was the successor to the old Norman Ross chain of stores as I recall.

That's what I once thought. Although I've been hearing for years about Harvey Norman, as being the person, rather than Gerry Harvey.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

If you are on same itinerary you may be linked? Or if married it may be linked via passport? Can anyone confirm?

I remember claiming an expensive watch >$1000. Was told I would be checked on the way back. I wasn't. YMMV tough.

I remember a mate telling me he claimed a engagement ring on the way out, then got his mate to bring it back. My mate got checked for the wedding ring. Not sure of the value.

There might be a $ limit on what will trigger a review at customs on the way home.

Travelling together (such as being on the same PNR) is one of the many data points available to Border Force. They get the information through APIS - along with other details you might not expect, such as your travel habits overseas (including every flight on your itinerary with a flight to Australia). Whether the computer flags your travelling companions as persons of interest (with a specific letter to flag that at the Border Force exit) is up to them, though!

 

[DC3]

If you are on same itinerary you may be linked? Or if married it may be linked via passport? Can anyone confirm?

I remember claiming an expensive watch >$1000. Was told I would be checked on the way back. I wasn't. YMMV tough.

I remember a mate telling me he claimed a engagement ring on the way out, then got his mate to bring it back. My mate got checked for the wedding ring. Not sure of the value.

There might be a $ limit on what will trigger a review at customs on the way home.

Then there was the guy who claimed GST for a $30,000 ring. On return, his wife had it. As it had been gifted, there was no issue, and nothing to be repaid. I'm not sure if the rules have changed since then.

 

[Matt_01]

If you are on same itinerary you may be linked? Or if married it may be linked via passport? Can anyone confirm?

I remember claiming an expensive watch >$1000. Was told I would be checked on the way back. I wasn't. YMMV tough.

I remember a mate telling me he claimed a engagement ring on the way out, then got his mate to bring it back. My mate got checked for the wedding ring. Not sure of the value.

There might be a $ limit on what will trigger a review at customs on the way home.

I am not sure how they check, a few years back I claimed had claimed for a cabin sized roller bag through TRS >$900, the questions asked made me suspect I would be flagged on arrival, sure enough I was. Prior to returning I had asked someone I knew (also on AFF) and was on the same flight would they mind waiting and if I was flagged would they mind going through customs together. When questioned we just said we had flown together showed the said roller bag and were just let through without issue.

 

[kpc]

I am not sure how they check, a few years back I claimed had claimed for a cabin sized roller bag through TRS >$900, the questions asked made me suspect I would be flagged on arrival, sure enough I was. Prior to returning I had asked someone I knew (also on AFF) and was on the same flight would they mind waiting and if I was flagged would they mind going through customs together. When questioned we just said we had flown together showed the said roller bag and were just let through without issue.

Technically the other person should be staying at your address to pool DF allowance. Anyway all moot now...

 

[kpc]

Travelling together (such as being on the same PNR) is one of the many data points available to Border Force. They get the information through APIS - along with other details you might not expect, such as your travel habits overseas (including every flight on your itinerary with a flight to Australia). Whether the computer flags your travelling companions as persons of interest (with a specific letter to flag that at the Border Force exit) is up to them, though!

A few years ago I claimed gst back on an expensive camera....I knew I would likely be flagged so I gave camera to +1 to clear customs as she arrived back on an earlier flight with different pnr to mine. Interestingly went I went through customs later nothing was said / asked...

 

[Daver6]

Then there was the guy who claimed GST for a $30,000 ring. On return, his wife had it. As it had been gifted, there was no issue, and nothing to be repaid. I'm not sure if the rules have changed since then.

Oh I'm sure this bloke is still paying

 

[ninja-tim]

Travelling together (such as being on the same PNR) is one of the many data points available to Border Force. They get the information through APIS - along with other details you might not expect, such as your travel habits overseas (including every flight on your itinerary with a flight to Australia). Whether the computer flags your travelling companions as persons of interest (with a specific letter to flag that at the Border Force exit) is up to them, though!

So previous travel companions on same PNR would be linked? E.g. flying with spouse previously on same PNRs frequently and then they are on seperate PNRs but on same flight would they get still flagged?

 

[daft009]

being devil's advocate here....

I still think the new rules are fair, at least the tourists are getting the full 10% back, unlike EU & Singapore there is no admin fee
and it is for tourists, not us locals

 

[justinbrett]

It's a dumb rule change. $900 only equated to max $90 of GST back, hardly going to add up to much.

I think it might be more about reducing queues at the airport. I actually stopped claiming a few years ago, figured the $50 or so I was getting back wasn't worth the 45 minute queue where I could easily drink that in champagne in the Flounge. Maybe it also will encourage more duty free purchases (don't really see why you can buy duty free and bring it back but not buy via TRS).

In any case - anything against posting it back? Probably not worth the postage.

 

[serfty]

I've never bothered. The things I'd buy that could be eligible for TRS, I can get generally input tax credits for anyway.

 

[ninja-tim]

It's a dumb rule change. $900 only equated to max $90 of GST back, hardly going to add up to much.

I think it might be more about reducing queues at the airport. I actually stopped claiming a few years ago, figured the $50 or so I was getting back wasn't worth the 45 minute queue where I could easily drink that in champagne in the Flounge. Maybe it also will encourage more duty free purchases (don't really see why you can buy duty free and bring it back but not buy via TRS).

In any case - anything against posting it back? Probably not worth the postage.

If it's worth the postage then it's probably not worth the risk of losing it in the mail system.

 

[Lynda2475]

don't really see why you can buy duty free and bring it back but not buy via TRS

This is why it is dumb, either abolish duty free for Aussies altogether or allow both.

 

[OZDUCK]

The amusing part is that the ATO - who are of course finally responsible for GST administration - still has the $900 passenger allowance outlined on their website. Viz -

"If the total value of the goods a traveller is bringing into Australia that they have purchased overseas or for which they have claimed a refund under TRS is greater than their passenger concession (exceeds AUD$900):

• they must declare all of these goods on your incoming passenger card
• they will need to repay the GST refund back on the goods they claimed under the TRS" (etc)

GST-free sales to travellers departing Australia

Retailers guide on how to sell goods to travellers about to depart Australia GST-free. This includes sealed bag rules and Australian Border Force (ABF) border clearance rules.

www.ato.gov.au

Personally I believe that the legislation governing the passenger concession allowance, Item 15 of Schedule 4 of the Customs Tariff Act 1995, does not exclude goods purchased under the TRS from receiving the $900 allowance. But of course my legal opinion is worth exactly what I have been paid for giving it.

 

[MattA]

The amusing part is that the ATO - who are of course finally responsible for GST administration - still has the $900 passenger allowance outlined on their website.

I noticed the ATO thing too. Spent a bit of time earlier in the week trying to work out what legislation (if any) has changed to prompt this update.

In addition to the Customs Act, you also have to read the relevant by-laws, which is where things like the $900 allowance (and pooling of family allowances etc) are specified. There is a copy on the ABF website (the relevant one is Customs By-law No. 1700571, about 1/3 of the way down the page): https://www.abf.gov.au/importing-ex...assification/current-tariff/schedule-4-by-law

This came into effect in 2018 and does not appear to have changed. There is a table that lists various things that are considered "personal effects" (and therefore don't attract duty when entering the country). There's a few relevant items in the table:

Item 2 talks about personal effects that you took out of the country and are bringing back -- Exclusion 2.2 relates to things you claimed TRS on ("item 7 in the table in subsection 38-185(1) of the GST Act" referenced here is where you find the legal basis for TRS). This just means that you don't have complete freedom to bring a TRS-claimed item of any value back without paying any duty.

Items 8 (families), 9 (single adults) and 10 (single children) basically say that personal effects are anything else not fitting into one of the previous categories in the table that you bring in where the total value is under your allowance. There is no exclusion here to take TRS items out of the category.

My legal opinion is worth even less than yours, @OZDUCK, but I can't see how anything has changed recently from how this has worked for years.

Besides, if they haven't changed the wording on the incoming passenger card (I think they are still using the yellow cards even with the new digital system?) then it specifically asks whether you are bringing in "Goods obtained overseas or purchased duty and/or tax free in Australia with a combined total price of more than AUD$900, including gifts?" https://www.abf.gov.au/entering-leaving-australia/files/ipc-sample-english.pdf

Surely someone with TRS-claimed items under their allowance should still answer "No" to that question, regardless of what it says elsewhere on the ABF website.

 

[OZDUCK]

I noticed the ATO thing too. Spent a bit of time earlier in the week trying to work out what legislation (if any) has changed to prompt this update.

In addition to the Customs Act, you also have to read the relevant by-laws, which is where things like the $900 allowance (and pooling of family allowances etc) are specified. There is a copy on the ABF website (the relevant one is Customs By-law No. 1700571, about 1/3 of the way down the page): Schedule 4 by-law

This came into effect in 2018 and does not appear to have changed. There is a table that lists various things that are considered "personal effects" (and therefore don't attract duty when entering the country). There's a few relevant items in the table:

Item 2 talks about personal effects that you took out of the country and are bringing back -- Exclusion 2.2 relates to things you claimed TRS on ("item 7 in the table in subsection 38-185(1) of the GST Act" referenced here is where you find the legal basis for TRS). This just means that you don't have complete freedom to bring a TRS-claimed item of any value back without paying any duty.

Items 8 (families), 9 (single adults) and 10 (single children) basically say that personal effects are anything else not fitting into one of the previous categories in the table that you bring in where the total value is under your allowance. There is no exclusion here to take TRS items out of the category.

My legal opinion is worth even less than yours, @OZDUCK, but I can't see how anything has changed recently from how this has worked for years.

Besides, if they haven't changed the wording on the incoming passenger card (I think they are still using the yellow cards even with the new digital system?) then it specifically asks whether you are bringing in "Goods obtained overseas or purchased duty and/or tax free in Australia with a combined total price of more than AUD$900, including gifts?" https://www.abf.gov.au/entering-leaving-australia/files/ipc-sample-english.pdf

Surely someone with TRS-claimed items under their allowance should still answer "No" to that question, regardless of what it says elsewhere on the ABF website.

I agree with pretty much all that you said and worked my way through the various Items and exclusions the same way you did. That By-law you ,correctly, quoted is to be found in Item 15 of Schedule 4 of the Customs Tariff Act 1995 which I mentioned.

Way back in the antediluvian past, early 1990's, I used to occasionally fill the position of the Senior Tariff Officer in Customs for W.A. and give rulings on the use of these By-laws. But after being retired for a little over 13 years I might well be just a bit out of date now. I actually tried to ring the Border Force TRS helpline but got a QANTAS like automated reply of basically "we are too busy go away and try again in some indeterminate future."

 

[SYD]

I agree with pretty much all that you said and worked my way through the various Items and exclusions the same way you did. That By-law you ,correctly, quoted is to be found in Item 15 of Schedule 4 of the Customs Tariff Act 1995 which I mentioned.

Way back in the antediluvian past, early 1990's, I used to occasionally fill the position of the Senior Tariff Officer in Customs for W.A. and give rulings on the use of these By-laws. But after being retired for a little over 13 years I might well be just a bit out of date now. I actually tried to ring the Border Force TRS helpline but got a QANTAS like automated reply of basically "we are too busy go away and try again in some indeterminate future."

I’ve been pondering if some bureaucrat has made a unilateral decision and landed on some misleading and confusing wording…?

The other inconsistent and silly thing - Arrivals DF - where you can now purchase all manner of tax free stuff but still be within your limits…

 

[kpc]

I see this as a cost cutting exercise to reduce Border Force manpower to man the TRS booths...they have always complained about it for Aussies claiming the GST back and then bringing the goods back to Australia...they say the " T" stands for "Tourist" to which I reply that if the government allows, it why not? I also remind them they could also claim the GST back themselves when they went OS...all said politely of course and this usually shuts them.up....

 

[OZDUCK]

I see this as a cost cutting exercise to reduce Border Force manpower to man the TRS booths...they have always complained about it for Aussies claiming the GST back and then bringing the goods back to Australia...they say the " T" stands for "Tourist" to which I reply that if the government allows, it why not? I also remind them they could also claim the GST back themselves when they went OS...all said politely of course and this usually shuts them.up....

It is possibly unpopular with full time staff to work on the TRS desk. The last few times I have claimed TRS out of Perth the person on the desk was someone I used to work with who had retired a little after me and was working on a part time contract pretty much just to work there. As I have written previously in another thread the TRS was definitely not something Customs, as was, wanted to become involved with. It was basically dumped on us by the Howard government who when announcing the scheme said that it was going to be done by private contractors and called for tenders. Of course all the tenders were so expensive that it was thrown our way. I guess this is the reason so many similar schemes overseas take a big chunk out of your refund as they are normally operated by private companies who are looking to make good profits.

 

[Lynda2475]

Maybe ive been lucky but i never waited more than 5 mins in TRS queue at SYD, complete the form online at home, scan the qr show receipt, tap your credit card and walk out.