New type of ticketing problem - same QF response

[Quickstatus]

rebook travel if the customer desires.

Agreed but its not going to reinstate the original itinerary. To be fair, no one can. EU261 just makes mandates that the first right of choice belongs to the customer not the airline.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Why is qantas.com delivering up flight combinations it cannot ticket?


View attachment 316852

And I ask yet again, how would a layperson realize this combination is invalid amongst the many other options QF may have presented such as BA or IB? The pricing doesn’t seem off. The flights don’t seem to be off. The only red flag would be arriving at a bus terminal but as mentioned earlier that’s not unusual for travel in the US. And I ask what specifically makes taking a bus connection invalid? It seems to me that QF was unwilling to ticket what is a legitimate itinerary despite displaying the option, taking the points and the taxes and fees to process the booking.

At a minimum, the OP should escalate this with the award booking team QF set up specifically for these ongoing issues with QF awards and I would be surprised if QF couldn’t make this right one way or another at no extra cost to the OP. Surely, QF could book BA flights to get them to AUH without much of a fuss given their partnership? Even if saver space isn’t available, I would be surprised if QF doesn’t have a special arrangement with BA and other OneWorld partners setup for IRROPs and these events!

 

[serfty]

And I ask yet again, how would a layperson realize this combination is invalid amongst the many other options QF may have presented such as BA or IB? The pricing doesn’t seem off. The flights don’t seem to be off. The only red flag would be arriving at a bus terminal but as mentioned earlier that’s not unusual for travel in the US. And I ask what specifically makes taking a bus connection invalid? It seems to me that QF was unwilling to ticket what is a legitimate itinerary despite displaying the option, taking the points and the taxes and fees to process the booking.

Qantas don't care - search this forum for "Mushroom Principle".

 

[Quickstatus]

IIRC there was a domestic flight which included sea/land transfers up in QLD? HTI or one of the islands?
VA?

VA flight to HTI then ferry transfer to Hayman - ticketed by VA

 

[Quickstatus]

how would a layperson realize this combination is invalid

No one would.

Unfortunately the issue is muddied because of QF problems with partner airline award ticketing making it even more difficult to discern whether the problem is a QF ticketing issue for a valid itinerary, or an invalid itinerary making ticketing impossible even for the [email protected] team

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There have also been rail travel as well as boat travel (e.g. Launch between Shute harbour and Hamilton Island).

Hence my use of the term 'surface transport'.

This seems to be ‘own metal’ or own arrangements, a partner directly with QF or an Aussie airline. Many Thai companies die the same with through tickets to the islands.

But might not be as simple with one airline booking a partner bus service? Although I think Star alliance does rail?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And I ask yet again, how would a layperson realize this combination is invalid amongst the many other options QF may have presented such as BA or IB? The pricing doesn’t seem off. The flights don’t seem to be off. The only red flag would be arriving at a bus terminal but as mentioned earlier that’s not unusual for travel in the US. And I ask what specifically makes taking a bus connection invalid? It seems to me that QF was unwilling to ticket what is a legitimate itinerary despite displaying the option, taking the points and the taxes and fees to process the booking.

At a minimum, the OP should escalate this with the award booking team QF set up specifically for these ongoing issues with QF awards and I would be surprised if QF couldn’t make this right one way or another at no extra cost to the OP. Surely, QF could book BA flights to get them to AUH without much of a fuss given their partnership? Even if saver space isn’t available, I would be surprised if QF doesn’t have a special arrangement with BA and other OneWorld partners setup for IRROPs and these events!

Sure, it should be escalated if the OP wants to. But the issue of EU261 is separate. I don’t believe EU261 applies here because there’s no valid reservation, or valid ticket.

This is not a case of airlines regularly abusing grounds of error to invalidate. It happens very rarely. And airlines have had years to perfect a ‘cancellation’ loophole if they’d wanted to try it. They haven’t.

There are other cases where EU261 has not been applicable but other avenues such as the DOT have been. This may be one of those cases (an aussie tribunal such as xCAT). But hardly worth the effort.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

This seems to be ‘own metal’ or own arrangements, a partner directly with QF or an Aussie airline. Many Thai companies die the same with through tickets to the islands.

But might not be as simple with one airline booking a partner bus service? Although I think Star alliance does rail?

Every major alliance does intermodal transport on tickets. Air France/KLM does it in Europe (SkyTeam) as does Lufthansa with DB trains and United until about 2 years ago with AmTrak (Star Alliance) meanwhile American has buses to take you from Philly to Atlantic City (OneWorld)

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Sure, it should be escalated if the OP wants to. But the issue of EU261 is separate. I don’t believe EU261 applies here because there’s no valid reservation, or valid ticket.

I think there are two separate issues here, first is whether the ticket is in fact valid and second if it is valid, whether EU261 applies.

I won’t revisit ticket validity as I think that has been adjudicated quite well, so let’s assume just for the sake of argument that the ticket was in fact valid. For clarity I’ll give you an example where this would clearly be the case for award bookings: suppose OP had a valid award ticket from HAM to DXB with EK on a QF award ticket but EK does a schedule change and QF doesn’t reticket in time causing the ticket to disappear. I’m that case EU261 may very well apply since it is no different than an airline relieving themselves of their obligation to transport you during IRROPs.

 

[jase05]

QF do not ticket DXB-AUH by bus. The OP should have just booked HAM-DXB and made their own arrangements.

That is my thoughts too. The bus service is operated by a third party setup and quite frankly I wouldn’t bother with it. A taxi between the two will only set you back around $100.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

That is my thoughts too. The bus service is operated by a third party setup and quite frankly I wouldn’t bother with it. A taxi between the two will only set you back around $100.

Whilst I personally would not book that for the stated reasons, I will point out that this is an Emirates “flight” nonetheless. Just because you change mode of travel doesn’t mean you change any of the rights and responsibilities owed to you by the airline. That the bus service is operated by a third party is also a red herring. After all virtually every airline contracts with third parties to operate flights, especially regional ones. With Qantas that’s outfits like Sunstate with American it’s Endeavor. Perhaps I am missing something here but I don’t see why QF should be given the benefit of the doubt or an out for what is yet another ticketing stuff up. It’s because people accept this anti-consumer behaviour by QF as a given is why Australia continues to have expensive fares and little in consumer rights. QF needs to be held to account here. Sorry is not enough when you’re stranded on the other side of the globe with you having to pay for hotels and miss work because JQ cancelled your flight for the third straight day, or in this case, QF fails to ticket your flight properly something that might I add airlines like American solved in the 60s with an IBM 360, punch cards and a lil piece of software called Sabre

-RooFlyer88

 

[serfty]

That is my thoughts too. The bus service is operated by a third party setup and quite frankly I wouldn’t bother with it. A taxi between the two will only set you back around $100.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing ... but if Qantas takes your points and $+++ for a reservation, then it make sense to believe you can save that $100.

 

[serfty]

This seems to be ‘own metal’ or own arrangements, a partner directly with QF or an Aussie airline. Many Thai companies die the same with through tickets to the islands.

But might not be as simple with one airline booking a partner bus service? Although I think Star alliance does rail?

ISTR QF * LH flight numbers° applying to some European rail travel in the past.

°(Or something along those lines.)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think there are two separate issues here, first is whether the ticket is in fact valid and second if it is valid, whether EU261 applies.

I won’t revisit ticket validity as I think that has been adjudicated quite well, so let’s assume just for the sake of argument that the ticket was in fact valid. For clarity I’ll give you an example where this would clearly be the case for award bookings: suppose OP had a valid award ticket from HAM to DXB with EK on a QF award ticket but EK does a schedule change and QF doesn’t reticket in time causing the ticket to disappear. I’m that case EU261 may very well apply since it is no different than an airline relieving themselves of their obligation to transport you during IRROPs.

EU261 won't apply in the case of QF failing to ticket.

You have to go down other paths.

 

[jase05]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing ... but if Qantas takes your points and $+++ for a reservation, then it make sense to belive you can save that $100.

Oh yeah, I do agree that if they are selling it on their website and take your points or cash then they absolutely should provide the service.
Bizarrely enough VA redemptions through EY offers a similar setup but that can be fully booked and paid for just fine but it’s a a bit of a scam IMO as you pay more in points and taxes than what the bus fare would be worth.

 

[Quickstatus]

just for the sake of argument

Using other scenarios where EU might apply does not make the current scenario fall under EU261.

But in the scenario you proferred, there was a ticket but due to scheduling changes, it is cancelled/invalidated/otherwise not usable. In that case EU261 rules would apply. Extending that to this situation where a ticket was not issued in the first place is really drawing a long bow.

Nevertheless (and notwithstanding the issues QF has with ticketing partner airlines) the main observation here is that booking via a third party is never as good as booking direct with the provider.

 

[serfty]

I have just done a dummy booking.

Seems the code being used for "EK Bus Station" is ZVJ.



[Aside]

Something new I noted is QF are now showing related Emirates PNR's on the MMB page:​

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[/Aside]

 

[Quickstatus]

Let's not give QF ideas about extending classic award redemption availability

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Using other scenarios where EU might apply does not make the current scenario fall under EU261.

But in the scenario you proferred, there was a ticket but due to scheduling changes, it is cancelled/invalidated/otherwise not usable. In that case EU261 rules would apply. Extending that to this situation where a ticket was not issued in the first place is really drawing a long bow.

Nevertheless (and notwithstanding the issues QF has with ticketing partner airlines) the main observation here is that booking via a third party is never as good as booking direct with the provider.

I don’t believe EU261 would apply in that situation? Eu261 is enforceable against the operating carrier. In this case it isn’t their fault the ticket wasn’t issued, and hence lack of reservation? The original schedule change would be subject to EU261, but not the failure of a third party to ticket.

 

[eminere]

[Aside]

Something new I noted is QF are now showing related Emirates PNR's on the MMB page:​

View attachment 316920​

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[/Aside]

I've seen this on my EK-operated, QF-marketed bookings in QF MMB for at least a couple of years now.