No-Doz, The Driver's Friend.

[cory]

I've used them a bit back when I was at uni...

Living in WA I've made many long trips up north and Perth to Kal return in a (very long)day, I have only relied on a couple cups of coffee. So 10 hours of driving is really nothing, if a couple of caffeine pills help you stay alert then that's fine but I'd say they shouldn't be relied upon.

 

[blackcat20]

I had a microsleep once and I will never ever ever do this again. I ignored the signs. And this was only for a very short trip. I was tired before I started, and almost pulled over for a 15 minute nap - which I can do when I am this tired and it really works. However the area I was going to pull over into was very busy and so I thought I would be fine. I was very very lucky the road was deserted when it happened.

I remember my father falling asleep at the wheel as a solo driver. It was on a family trip going from Adelaide to country Victoria. I was in the passenger seat next to him - I was 15 and not feeling well so as a passenger I went to sleep. Next thing we had smashed into the left side barrier wall. We could have been killed - me most certainly. And to this day if I am a passenger next to the driver I never ever go to sleep when they are driving.

It only takes a split second for a lifetime of ruin.

Similarly, I was on field work and had driven out to the most western part of Victoria, been up at stupid o'clock to collect samples, then was driving back home again. I was exhausted and ended up having to pull over for a rest after I wandered onto the rumble strips on the side of the road.

On road trips that I've been a part of, it's always been a rule that the front seat passenger must keep the driver occupied no matter what. So general talks, jokes, d&m's, games, whatever will keep the driver awake and alert.

I've had useless passengers who have slept the whole way; got a stern talking to so that on the return they kept me occupied and fed.

 

[Renato1]

I do lots of things tired. Driving isn't one of them. I try to limit my trips to ~100kms. Anything more and my eyes are sore and I am tired.

Don't quite understand why you would need to drive over 10 hours in one stretch at those sorts of speeds. Break the trip up and spend a night in a hotel.

To put things into context, three years ago I drove over 4000km around Europe and limited my drives to 6 hours maximum. I had no No-Doz with me, and quite frankly I thought things were getting a tad dangerous and scary from fatigue at times, especially when I was driving across the whole of France (which I didn't want to visit).

This was what prompted me to buy the No-Doz for last year's trip. I had been thinking of breaking up the 10.5 hour trip to Amalfi and stay somewhere overnight. But after seeing how well the pills worked on six hour drives in Croatia the previous week, I decided to do the 10.5 hour trip - especially as my neighbour's son often does that same trip, without caffeine, and he is older than me.

i don't have your problem with driving 100km. When I was working I had to drive 200km for work to a country town four or six times a year, and often after the meeting ended drive 200km back home on the same day. I didn't use any caffeine at the time.
Regards,
Renato

.... OR you could take the attitude, like most of us, don't drive while tired and use artificial stimulants to keep you awake. But, (and assuming you are serious), you'd rather drive while drugged up. Not something to boast about, I suggest.

You'll be OK ... until the time inevitably comes that it comes unstuck. And sometime it will ... you'll not even know that you've nodded off and then you may not know anything, ever again. And in that case you'll never know who else you have taken with you.



Taking long drives while drugged up is not my idea of a pleasurable overseas trip, but each to their own I guess.

Caffeine is an artificial stimulant and one is "drugged up" using it?
In fact, caffeine is a natural product.
Would you be saying the same thing if I had written that I drove at high speed across Italy taking several espressos at each stop? (Can't do the same thing in the USA, or one would be going to the Rest Room by the time one finished the second canister of coffee).
Regards,
Renato

Not comment on No-Doz but many many people drive 6, 8, 10+ hours in a day.

QLD was a popular holiday destination as a kid - we caught the ferry from Tas to Vic then drive north for 2 days and stayed with family. We would not have had any QLD holidays otherwise. When I lived in Mt Isa it was common to drive to Townsville or the Gulf for the weekend, and I have driven MEL-ADL-MEL a number of times as well.

Yes, I have friends who can do that sort of driving too.
But as someone famous once said, a man has to know his limitations.
And my limitation, without caffeine-assisted-driving, is about four hours.
Cheers,
Renato

I hope you don't make the drive up to Sydney from Melbourne often Renato1, or visit here and hire a car. If you do please let me know and I'll stay off the roads.

Why would I waste a whole day driving to Sydney at a measely 110kph looking at impossibly boring countryside, when I can fly there?
Cheers,
Renato

It is, IMHO, insanity to do a 10hr high-speed drive in a foreign country where you are so scared of the traffic that you feel the need to use a drug. That is pitiful and unjustifiable. You endangered your wife, all other road users, and yourself.

I wasn't scared of the traffic at all for 10 hours. It was an extremely pleasant trip on the autostrada.

My wife was scared of the sinister-looking inhabitants of Angri, and terrified that there were no road rules and that we appeared to be playing dodge-em cars with everyone there.

Your unsupported assertion is incorrect, I endangered not a single soul.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Steady]

The single most effective thing for me on the micro sleep front was being diagnosed with sleep apnoea and the sequential use of a CPAP. I now spend far less time sleeping and I am no longer tired. There is no question (with hindsight) that I am a safer driver now, but I had no idea, as I suspect is the case with many others

Regarding fatigue - I believe long distance driving requires short breaks every few hours, even when I as a driver do not feel tired

 

[Renato1]

I've used No-Doz here and there when I used to be in a touring band but even then, the length of each stint behind the wheel for each of us was like 4-5 hours max. I'm not a fan of No-Doz, energy drinks etc. Espresso for me is more of a pleasure than a stimulant so that does nothing for me on travels.
But if it works for you and is safe then go for it.

Thanks for your thoughts, and relating your experience driving - I was starting to feel somewhat lonely here.

I suspect that other members of the site aren't as representative of the population in general, because No-Doz occupies shelf space at Woolworths, so that a significant number of people must be buying it.
Regards,
Renato

 

[mannej]

It would seem clear to me that the OP has developed a dependency on Caffeine. Whilst he has been spouting the benefits, it is clear he is happy to ignore the side affects.

And for the record in response to the OP, no I wasn't a heavy coffee drinker at the time...

I suspect that other members of the site aren't as representative of the population in general, because No-Doz occupies shelf space at Woolworths, so that a significant number of people must be buying it.
Regards,
Renato

Not necessarily. There are a lot of things that supermarkets stock that the general population wouldn't purchase a great deal of, but there is a niche market instead.

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>
Caffeine is an artificial stimulant and one is "drugged up" using it?
<snip>

Yes, you are.

<snip>
In fact, caffeine is a natural product.
Would you be saying the same thing if I had written that I drove at high speed across Italy taking several espressos at each stop? (Can't do the same thing in the USA, or one would be going to the Rest Room by the time one finished the second canister of coffee).
Regards,
Renato
<snip>

Alcohol is a natural product too. You wanna drink and drive on the basis of that? .. Fer crying out loud!!

And yes, I would say the same thing about taking multiple espresso's and driving at high speed - if you are specifically taking the espressos to combat fatigue / keep you awake.

I don't think you get it. I drink a fair bit of coffee - the argument here is not about its consumption per se - its about using it to counteract fatigue during a long drive, at high speed (or even at normal speed!). Like I said - it seems to have worked for you (so far). But like the drinker who drives 'because I'm still in control' - you'll get away with it for a while, but when you don't finally get away with it, if you are lucky you'll probably never know it - but the families of the people that might be maimed or killed along side you will know it.

 

[Jmrocky]

This tone of this thread reminds me of discussions with anti-vaxxers. Maybe akin to a product ad on a morning show. What's even scarier is you admit to not eating, your brain needs energy (glucose) to concentrate and maintain focus, and you're effectively starving it for 10 hours and supplementing this symptom with caffeine.

But, you "endangered not a single soul", so I guess all is well?

 

[Renato1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNPTlT8HXjk

If you're driving that far while tired, you're doing it wrong.

You miss the point - I was not tired in any way shape or form with the wonder pills.
I was wide awake and enjoying the pleasant high-speed drives.
Regards,
Renato

No the study does not support what you wrote in your post and the discussion on the article explains why.

You have written of your experiences driving whilst using caffeine.
Others (myself included) would not advise or advocate doing this.
This does not mean that I wont spend money or that I'm putting others at risk. Quite the opposite in fact.
As I stated previously I will drive properly rested and take adequate breaks.

No - the Case Study supports exactly what I wrote.
The article tries to refute the evidence within the Case study with ridiculous suppositions.

For example, one conclusion that can be drawn the article's conclusions is that drinking lots and lots of water will reduce truck crashes - because the truckers will have to stop and go to the toilet more often. The article is spurious, in my opinion, while the Case Study has the data to back up it's claims.

The other point which you and many others have made about driving rested contains one implicit assumption that I think is not valid at all. Yes, one can get up in the morning and plan to drive in a rested fashion for four or five hours to the hotel that one has booked. So, what happens if at the two mark, one is suddenly very tired? Stop for a while, take off and find 15 minutes later that one is tired again - then what? Ring up the booked hotel and cancel the booking, while looking for a hotel where you are?

The certainty that you and everyone else is expressing with regards to knowing exactly how long they can drive before getting fatigued strikes me as not being real.
Regards,
Renato

i'd prefer to use modavigil. get the alertness without the stimulant affects.

Thanks Jeffrey,
I've never heard of it, but shall investigate it.
Regards,
Renato

i hope youre drinking plenty of water whilst you drive or youre liable to end up with kidney, bladder or liver troubles from this stimulant use!

Thanks for that.
Well, I don't do such driving often enough for it to be a factor, but regardless, Coke Zero and Diet Pepsi are my constant companions on such drives.
Regards,
Renato

This thread is incredibly scary. I've driven once while tired to the point of almost falling asleep and it is not an experience I will ever repeat. To suggest people drug themselves up to keep on going is incredibly irresponsible.

You drove yourself to the point of almost falling asleep.
That is what is dangerous to you and others - and you could have avoided it with the use of caffeine.
Who's irresponsible?
Regards,
Renato

I have been trying for a while to come up with a response and have to stay I'm speechless.

Drugged up or otherwise, if you are tired then you are tired and if tired to the degree being discussed then you are dangerous on the roads. There have been many studies with published results that link degree of fatigue with a percentage of intoxication and MOST people these days won't/don't drink & drive.

Agree - if you are tired don't drive.
But if you are wide awake and alert and caffeinated - the Case Study raised earlier shows that you are less likely to have a crash.
Regards,
Renato

Yikes! Bags I not sharing the road or a car with you Renato! Sorry but driving those distances and at high speeds for extended periods simply cannot be safe. Maybe talk to a highway cop or ambos who have to scrape people off bitumen after high speed crashes. You know those ads - 'speed kills' '& ' fatigue kills'. They are based on fact. MrMac & I drove to Sydney last month in one go - not our intention when we set off actually just the way it panned out. the Hume is a lovely safe road now; minimal traffic and we had plenty of breaks. In a big safe car - Benz 500 - which is very easy to drive & ate up the ks. However we were both buggered by the time we got there, despite rest stops and swapping driving. We were at our physical limit and no way could that have been reduced by popping a pill.

You were at your physical limit - when you did not have to be. That is what was unambiguously dangerous.

You claim that the pill wouldn't work, and elected to keep driving despite the fatigue. So, why did you not take a No-Doz to see if it possibly stopped you being fatigued and a danger on the road? it couldn't possibly have made you more tired than you were.

Regards,
Renato

 

[dandandandan]

Thanks for your thoughts, and relating your experience driving - I was starting to feel somewhat lonely here.

I suspect that other members of the site aren't as representative of the population in general, because No-Doz occupies shelf space at Woolworths, so that a significant number of people must be buying it.
Regards,
Renato

Putting it out there, although I've used No-Doz here and there on drives, it's never had much of an effect on me. I've still had to always limit my drive lengths and take breaks every chance available. This is also true for coffee and energy drinks.
I've always relied on the company of the front seat passanger to keep me alert by engaging with me. I find listening to stand up comedy acts on road trips keeps me up.
Just keep it safe on the roads for you and everyone else Renato1, that's the only thing that matters in the end.

 

[junbugging]

it couldn't possibly have made you more tired than you were.

It could have masked the tiredness to the point where you didn't realise you weren't thinking rationally, though.

 

[Pushka]

It could have masked the tiredness to the point where you didn't realise you weren't thinking rationally, though.

Just about to say that too.

 

[blackcat20]

Yes, you are.



Alcohol is a natural product too. You wanna drink and drive on the basis of that? .. Fer crying out loud!!

And yes, I would say the same thing about taking multiple espresso's and driving at high speed - if you are specifically taking the espressos to combat fatigue / keep you awake.

I don't think you get it. I drink a fair bit of coffee - the argument here is not about its consumption per se - its about using it to counteract fatigue during a long drive, at high speed (or even at normal speed!). Like I said - it seems to have worked for you (so far). But like the drinker who drives 'because I'm still in control' - you'll get away with it for a while, but when you don't finally get away with it, if you are lucky you'll probably never know it - but the families of the people that might be maimed or killed along side you will know it.

There's a reason why pure caffeine is kept in a poisons cabinet in a laboratory environment.

Thanks for that.

You drove yourself to the point of almost falling asleep.
That is what is dangerous to you and others - and you could have avoided it with the use of caffeine.
Who's irresponsible?
Regards,
Renato

I did once, when I was young. It was stupid and irresponsible, I have not denied that. I'd also drunk plenty of tea, which is also full of caffeine. Its makes absolutely no difference to someone that is that tired. Not something I would ever do again because I generally try not to kill myself nor others on the road. The fact there is someone like you out on the road, tired and drugged, is far more terrifying.

 

[Steady]

So, what happens if at the two mark, one is suddenly very tired? Stop for a while, take off and find 15 minutes later that one is tired again - then what? Ring up the booked hotel and cancel the booking, while looking for a hotel where you are?

Yes, if someone feels tired again so soon they should stop driving. I would suggest this is not normal.

 

[wandering_fred]

It's been quite a while since I have driven 1000+km in a day, finally ending up at the airport (safely) but not remembering the flight taking off.

Given the stated age of the OP, I would suggest some serious discussion between he and his GP regarding the effect of caffeine (in large doses) on cardiac stability (arrhythmia). And if still dedicated to the proposition of excess caffeine there are a lot of canned products available at road houses (Red Bull and Pepsi Max come to mind) that will contain more caffeine than the road house coffee.

Happy wandering (if on the road as far from WA as possible, please)

Fred

 

[docjames]

There are multiple comments i'm refraining from adding.

I would point out that 24hrs without sleep (ie. one missed night) is akin to driving with a BAC of 0.05. No amount of stimulant changes that (just as it doesn't change your capacity if your BAC is 0.05).

 

[Milefest]

There are multiple comments i'm refraining from adding.

I would point out that 24hrs without sleep (ie. one missed night) is akin to driving with a BAC of 0.05. No amount of stimulant changes that (just as it doesn't change your capacity if your BAC is 0.05).

Unfortunately it's not illegal to drive with that little sleep, just like it's not illegal to talk on a phone while driving even though it's just as bad (or worse) as drunk driving.

 

[marki]

A long, long, time ago you could buy Ephedrine (30, 60, 90mg) OTC.
Whilst those drugs certainly kept you awake I'm glad they were removed from sale.
I met quite a few zombies during that time in my line of work.

And you could buy pseudoephedrine - sudafed - in Coles. Which for those who have sinus issues was helpful. Now you have to be treated like a druggie just to get medications that actually work for health issues.

You used to be able to purchase amphetamine over the counter too!! Used to be a nasal spray and people would drink it!

.... OR you could take the attitude, like most of us, don't drive while tired and use artificial stimulants to keep you awake. But, (and assuming you are serious), you'd rather drive while drugged up. Not something to boast about, I suggest.

You'll be OK ... until the time inevitably comes that it comes unstuck. And sometime it will ... you'll not even know that you've nodded off and then you may not know anything, ever again. And in that case you'll never know who else you have taken with you.



Taking long drives while drugged up is not my idea of a pleasurable overseas trip, but each to their own I guess.

With Fatigue the problem is one does not know one is fatigued due to fatigue.

I do lots of things tired. Driving isn't one of them. I try to limit my trips to ~100kms. Anything more and my eyes are sore and I am tired.

Don't quite understand why you would need to drive over 10 hours in one stretch at those sorts of speeds. Break the trip up and spend a night in a hotel.

I going for the Google self driving car. Yes although the last info from Tesla autopilot waS defeated by very challenging circumstances ..... By an unfatigued driver supervising I still think it's safer this way than say medications ...... Although we know that the US military and airforce have used amphetamine for long sorties. The consequences have not always been exemplary .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNPTlT8HXjk

If you're driving that far while tired, you're doing it wrong.

Nice one junbugging .....!

 

[anat0l]

This thread is ridiculous; the title and proposition is spurious and irresponsible.

I shall reserve my comments of the OP; needless to say it is plentifully expressed in this thread, unfortunately not to a suitable degree deserving of the degree of irresponsibility and ineptitude portrayed.

 

[JohnK]

To put things into context, three years ago I drove over 4000km around Europe and limited my drives to 6 hours maximum. I had no No-Doz with me, and quite frankly I thought things were getting a tad dangerous and scary from fatigue at times, especially when I was driving across the whole of France (which I didn't want to visit).

I don't quite understand why you put yourself through the risk and torture of driving such long distances on holidays. It's not fun sitting on 140km/h for 6 hours tired and drugged up.

20+ years ago I drove to Broken Hill with mum on a Saturday and drove back via Mildura on Sunday because I thought it would be fun. It wasn't. Didn't book motel and when we got there no vacancies and got one of the final spots in caravan park. Huge storms through the night and we slept for 2-3 hours and drove off at 4:00am not knowing what to expect. We drove through partially flooded roads and the return trip was torture as my eyes were sore most of the way. Survived but I won't do that again.

Why would I waste a whole day driving to Sydney at a measely 110kph looking at impossibly boring countryside, when I can fly there?

Why not do that in Europe? Or at least take a train?