No more card retention teams ?

[tykissy]

Yes

Interesting outcome from consumer protection law changes - I doubt these consequences were deliberate. One matter to be aware of when considering cancelling a card is that you may loose any accumulated points unless you can transfer them into the target airline program. BTW has anyone posted here about which airlines have expiry dates on points in their FF programs? I have been reluctant to transfer credit card points into FF programs because of the risk of expiry but if they no longer expire, I may as well do the transfers. Ta, Peter.

Yes that’s a timely reminder, thank you…

 

[tykissy]

Interesting outcome from consumer protection law changes - I doubt these consequences were deliberate. One matter to be aware of when considering cancelling a card is that you may loose any accumulated points unless you can transfer them into the target airline program. BTW has anyone posted here about which airlines have expiry dates on points in their FF programs? I have been reluctant to transfer credit card points into FF programs because of the risk of expiry but if they no longer expire, I may as well do the transfers. Ta, Peter.

Also another good point about programs that points expire! I feel that is not correct, a member has earned those points why should the partner be able to take them away. I don’t like Virgin Velocity for that reason and I think I had an unpleasant experience with United Airlines awhile ago where my points expired. I know QANTAS points don’t expire, well at least for now they don’t!

 

[adrenaln]

...I don’t like Virgin Velocity for that reason

Velocity don't expire provided you earn or redeem at least 1pt in a 2 year period, very reasonable I thought?

 

[eastwest101]

This is how a common consumer website has interpreted the changes:


Note this section:

Credit issuers must give customers the option to cancel their accounts or reduce their credit limits online. When a customer makes a request, the credit issuer must take reasonable steps to help the customer meet their request. This means that card issuers can no longer offer contrary suggestions when you’re trying to close your account or reduce your credit limit.


But I would love to hear a person's opinion who has actually read the legislation to see if that interpretation is correct (or the only interpretation). Seems to me that the intent was to stop the practice of cancellation of credit cards so difficult that people would give up and not close them (e.g. only being able to cancel in writing by written letter to an obscure GPO box).

The banks seemed to have interpreted this as a case of not being able to run retention teams at all, but I'm surprised that they didn't try to argue that Retention Teams could offer "alternative suggestions" or "better alternatives" rather than get caught up in the "contrary suggestion" clause.

Here's an interesting scenario: A customer rings with an out of control and overdue credit card account, they want to close it. If the operator suggests that they make a full payment of the balance before closing is that classified as a "contrary suggestion"? If the bank wanted to make some payment schedule to get the account balance back under control and in good standing is that a "contrary suggestion"?

It all seems a highly convenient and very un-competative outcome to me, with banks and shareholders being the winners and consumers being the losers.

 

[opusman]

I know QANTAS points don’t expire, well at least for now they don’t!

Qantas points expire if you don't earn or redeem any points in an 18 month period.

 

[blaz]

It is a good thing. It means the banks will need to sharpen their pencils when offering new products .

 

[pyeardley]

I just phoned up Amex Platinum line and asked to speak to retention team. CSO asked why, I told him I wan't happy with the fee increase / points devaluation, and that I'm considering cancelling card, what could they offer to help me stay. After a bit of a sales pitch, he said he'd look at what offers were available for me, and a few minutes later credited me 25k points. Doesn't cover fee, but it all helps!

 

[tykissy]

Qantas points expire if you don't earn or redeem any points in an 18 month period.

Thanks for that info I didn’t reliaze, I guess when it’s your main account you don’t get to that point of knowing…because you are always adding and redeeming, it’s the accounts that just sit there with 10,000 that you got for some reason and because you don’t use that program you loose sight of them.

Velocity don't expire provided you earn or redeem at least 1pt in a 2 year period, very reasonable I thought?

Ok, that’s worth remembering, thanks for your post…wish I knew that a month ago! My bad for not looking deeper!

I just phoned up Amex Platinum line and asked to speak to retention team. CSO asked why, I told him I wan't happy with the fee increase / points devaluation, and that I'm considering cancelling card, what could they offer to help me stay. After a bit of a sales pitch, he said he'd look at what offers were available for me, and a few minutes later credited me 25k points. Doesn't cover fee, but it all helps!

Better than nothing but it’s goes against what we are hearing in this thread so it’s sounds like it’s hit or miss!

 

[get me outta here]

And, we didn't really need a banking RC cos' they all behave so well, oh wait, perhaps we did because they don't.

Another example of the nanny-state mentality being detrimental to society.

 

[pyeardley]

Better than nothing but it’s goes against what we are hearing in this thread so it’s sounds like it’s hit or miss!

Maybe it's because I said I'm thinking of cancelling, and asked what they could offer? Or maybe because it is a charge card, not a credit card?

 

[woodborer]

Hopefully this wont apply to the FFFL Citibank Signature card in regards to FFFL being with drawn. After all it is a contract that both party's happily entered into.

Why wouldn't it apply? You request to cancel, they cancel it?

 

[woodborer]

Another example of the nanny-state mentality being detrimental to society.

The alternative would be to try to teach people how to manage their finances. Good luck with that.

 

[Skyhawk]

I rang Citibank and said l wasn’t happy about the $395 AF due next week and that l wasn’t going to pay it. I was careful not to mention the C..... word. CSO asked if l wanted to cancel the cc and I said no, I wanted the fee waived. After the usual mandatory hold he said he could offer $100 only. At that point I requested that the cc be canceled.

 

[opusman]

The one good thing to come out of this is that sign-up offers should get a lot more generous. They can't do anything to hold onto existing customers, so they'll have no choice but to make more effort to get new ones.

 

[stm1sydney]

The alternative would be to try to teach people how to manage their finances. Good luck with that.

Yeah, we should all just let the government manage our finances. That'll work well.

 

[Daver6]

So perhaps they can't offer inducements not to cancel...but perhaps we can still ask for them?

 

[get me outta here]

That's just a silly idea that no one has suggested except you.

Yeah, we should all just let the government manage our finances. That'll work well.

 

[Deleted member 6404]

Yeah, we should all just let the government manage our finances. That'll work well.

Oh dont worry they will, once the whole system goes cashless they will have full control over your finances and data on your spending habits.
Be a good boy/girl or you wont be able to fly to that OS holiday, and make sure your Tax bill is paid before you go,. coming real soon.

 

[Isochronous]

I have had a quick look at the NCCPA and the ban on retention bonuses is not clear to me (although the ban on credit limit increase invitations is):

124 Prohibition on suggesting to consumers to remain in unsuitable credit contracts

Prohibition on suggesting to remain in unsuitable contracts

(1) A licensee must not provide credit assistance to a consumer by suggesting that the consumer remain in a particular credit contract with a particular credit provider if the contract is unsuitable for the consumer under subsection (2).

Civil penalty: 2,000 penalty units.

When the contract is unsuitable

(2) The credit contract is unsuitable for the consumer if, at that time the licensee provides the credit assistance:

(a) the consumer is, or is likely to be, unable to comply with the consumer’s financial obligations under the contract, or only able to comply with substantial hardship; or

(b) the contract does not meet the consumer’s requirements or objectives; or

(c) if the regulations prescribe circumstances in which a credit contract is unsuitable—those circumstances apply to the contract.

(3) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(a), it is presumed that, if the consumer could only comply with the consumer’s financial obligations under the contract by selling the consumer’s principal place of residence, the consumer could only comply with those obligations with substantial hardship, unless the contrary is proved.

Unless there is another section which more directly addresses the cancellation request situation, the argument would appear to be based on s.124(2)(b) - a mere request to cancel means that the card does not meet the consumer's requirements and those ought to be respected. That being the case, a consumer who rings up and asks for a retention bonus or an incentive to keep the card should be able to do so because, absent an express request to cancel, there is no implication that the card no longer meets the consumer's requirements.

It would then appear that the banks are now acting far more conservatively than the legislation obligates them to. That is not illegal but it is misleading for them to say that they are prohibited by law from acting differently.

133BE Credit provider not to offer etc. to increase credit limit of credit card contract

Requirement

(1) A licensee who is the credit provider under a credit card contract must not make a credit limit increase invitation in relation to the contract.

Civil penalty: 2,000 penalty units.

Note 1: Subsection 133BF(1) provides a defence to liability under this subsection.

Note 2: For other provisions that must be complied with in relation to increasing credit limits, see:

(a) Divisions 3 and 4 of Part 3‑2; and

(b) subsection 67(4) of the National Credit Code.

Offence

(2) A person commits an offence if:

(a) the person is subject to a requirement under subsection (1); and

(b) the person engages in conduct; and

(c) the conduct contravenes the requirement.

Criminal penalty: 100 penalty units.

Note: Subsection 133BF(1) provides a defence to liability under this subsection.

Strict liability offence

(3) A person commits an offence if:

(a) the person is subject to a requirement under subsection (1); and

(b) the person engages in conduct; and

(c) the conduct contravenes the requirement.

Criminal penalty: 10 penalty units.

Note: Subsection 133BF(1) provides a defence to liability under this subsection.

(4) Subsection (3) is an offence of strict liability.

Note: For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.

Meaning of credit limit increase invitation

(5) A licensee makes a credit limit increase invitation, in relation to a credit card contract, if:

(a) the licensee gives a written communication that relates to the contract to the consumer who is the debtor under the contract; and

(b) one or more of the following conditions is satisfied in relation to the communication:

(i) the communication offers to increase the credit limit of the contract;

(ii) the communication invites the consumer to apply for an increase of the credit limit of the contract;

(iii) the licensee gave the communication to the consumer for the purpose (or for purposes including the purpose) of encouraging the consumer to consider applying for an increase of the credit limit of the contract.

(6) The regulations may make provisions that apply to determining whether a written communication is covered by the definition in subsection (5).

 

[mviy]

I would have liked some annual fee waivers this year. Looking to improve my credit score by not switching cards for a while.