No sale fares to 5th freedom destination Malta for QF coded flights

[lathiat]

Folks!

I suspect I have run into a bit of an oversight on Qantas' fare rules, and am curious if anyone has feedback about something I am overlooking, or if they think there is likely a realistic reason for this other than oversight. Honestly this is more of an academic curiosity post, because I feel like getting a real answer from someone deep in Qantas would be nigh on impossible.

I'm flying Perth-Malta. On Emirates, this route is PER-DXB (EK421) then DXB-LCA-MLA (EK109 out, EK110 return which goes back through LCA also) as a 5th freedom route with the same flight number for both segments. Since I am Gold with Qantas, I'd prefer to book the QF codeshares for the route.

It seems that there are never any Sale Fares (O class) for the DXB-LCA-MLA segment when coded with QF, however they do exist when coded EK (putting the route with EK codes for DXB-MLA as $400 or so cheaper). Curiously, there are however always Saver (S class) fares available when coded QF.

The lack of Sale fares in QF (but still existing in EK) seems to sometimes happen due to what I assume is a limit on the number of fares set aside for QF (which makes some sense), however I searched a bunch of random dates and it is never possible to get fares to quote Sale (O) with a QF code, only Saver (S). Additionally, you can book Sale fares to the first stop (LCA), just not all the way to MLA. You can also get sale fares on the same dates to basically any other destination. And in all cases, there is an EK coded option that does have a Sale fare.

If you lookup the flight on Expert Flyer (and also a travel agent did with Amadeus in a FB thread where I asked about the same thing) you will see O class fares for the sector showing but it seems that you can never quote such a route I assume because there are no Fare Rules to match (this is where I am starting to guess though...)


As a random note, when I last flew this route 2 years ago, it was DXB-TUS-MLA-DXB (a triangle route, rather than the current route which stops over in LCA in both directions). At that time you couldn't get QF for the flight at all in any class.

The main reason I suspect this might be an oversight is because this is the only 5th freedom route that Emirates flies which you can book as Qantas, because all of their other fifth freedom routes are to the USA and Asia which generally Qantas won't let you book online (though in some cases you can book if you call). So I was hoping to compare another 5th freedom booking to see if it is a quirk of the extra "stop" somehow interacting with the fare rules, but couldn't get any other route to quote to compare.

Appreciate any insight, as academic as this is

 

[calmelb]

Folks!

I suspect I have run into a bit of an oversight on Qantas' fare rules, and am curious if anyone has feedback about something I am overlooking, or if they think there is likely a realistic reason for this other than oversight. Honestly this is more of an academic curiosity post, because I feel like getting a real answer from someone deep in Qantas would be nigh on impossible.

I'm flying Perth-Malta. On Emirates, this route is PER-DXB (EK421) then DXB-LCA-MLA (EK109 out, EK110 return which goes back through LCA also) as a 5th freedom route with the same flight number for both segments. Since I am Gold with Qantas, I'd prefer to book the QF codeshares for the route.

It seems that there are never any Sale Fares (O class) for the DXB-LCA-MLA segment when coded with QF, however they do exist when coded EK (putting the route with EK codes for DXB-MLA as $400 or so cheaper). Curiously, there are however always Saver (S class) fares available when coded QF.

The lack of Sale fares in QF (but still existing in EK) seems to sometimes happen due to what I assume is a limit on the number of fares set aside for QF (which makes some sense), however I searched a bunch of random dates and it is never possible to get fares to quote Sale (O) with a QF code, only Saver (S). Additionally, you can book Sale fares to the first stop (LCA), just not all the way to MLA. You can also get sale fares on the same dates to basically any other destination. And in all cases, there is an EK coded option that does have a Sale fare.

If you lookup the flight on Expert Flyer (and also a travel agent did with Amadeus in a FB thread where I asked about the same thing) you will see O class fares for the sector showing but it seems that you can never quote such a route I assume because there are no Fare Rules to match (this is where I am starting to guess though...)


As a random note, when I last flew this route 2 years ago, it was DXB-TUS-MLA-DXB (a triangle route, rather than the current route which stops over in LCA in both directions). At that time you couldn't get QF for the flight at all in any class.

The main reason I suspect this might be an oversight is because this is the only 5th freedom route that Emirates flies which you can book as Qantas, because all of their other fifth freedom routes are to the USA and Asia which generally Qantas won't let you book online (though in some cases you can book if you call). So I was hoping to compare another 5th freedom booking to see if it is a quirk of the extra "stop" somehow interacting with the fare rules, but couldn't get any other route to quote to compare.

Appreciate any insight, as academic as this is

Just curious, have you tried booking QF just to LCA? I wonder if the allocated QF sale fares have been taken already and that’s why

 

[lathiat]

Just curious, have you tried booking QF just to LCA? I wonder if the allocated QF sale fares have been taken already and that’s why

That’s what confuses me! You can get sale tickets to LCA.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Maybe its more so the QF and EK agreement (to blame) that does not extend to through fares from DXB/some airports to MLA.
After all, EK is not in OW, so a lot of things we take for granted, that exist in the OW agreement, do not exist in the agreement between QF and EK.
Like eg, if you flew with a OW partner, even if not QF code, you at least earnt some SC, even if small.
But if you flew from Au to DXB on an EK flight number, you earn zero, yep, zero QF SC, so your flight from PER - DXB will earn you no QF SC, thought you knew this!
So, you did save some $ or will save some $, or a lot, but this trip will not count towards your next status year, of retaining QF SG, if are relying on this trip to count, that is.
I know on some routes, EK will have their own code, and metal, but you or I will never find a QF code to those cities.
Probably too late, but maybe next time, fly from DXB to an airport that BA flies from and to, and then use BA to fly to MLA.
At least then you will earn a minscule QF SC haul from the city BA flies to and from to MLA, if going to do this again in future.

 

[calmelb]

Maybe its more so the QF and EK agreement (to blame) that does not extend to through fares from DXB/some airports to MLA.
After all, EK is not in OW, so a lot of things we take for granted, that exist in the OW agreement, do not exist in the agreement between QF and EK.
Like eg, if you flew with a OW partner, even if not QF code, you at least earnt some SC, even if small.
But if you flew from Au to DXB on an EK flight number, you earn zero, yep, zero QF SC, so your flight from PER - DXB will earn you no QF SC, thought you knew this!
So, you did save some $ or will save some $, or a lot, but this trip will not count towards your next status year, of retaining QF SG, if are relying on this trip to count, that is.
I know on some routes, EK will have their own code, and metal, but you or I will never find a QF code to those cities.
Probably too late, but maybe next time, fly from DXB to an airport that BA flies from and to, and then use BA to fly to MLA.
At least then you will earn a minscule QF SC haul from the city BA flies to and from to MLA, if going to do this again in future.

The OP already knows this as they say they try to book the QF codeshare for it (just providing the ek numbers for clarification I suppose). The main point is that there is no qf code to MLA. I’ve found most routes there is a QF code to the EK metal, just not to the USA as it’s beyond the partnership

 

[eminere]

The OP already knows this as they say they try to book the QF codeshare for it (just providing the ek numbers for clarification I suppose). The main point is that there is no qf code to MLA. I’ve found most routes there is a QF code to the EK metal, just not to the USA as it’s beyond the partnership

I believe Africa is also excluded from the QF/EK partnership.

 

[FrustratedQP]

I believe Africa is also excluded from the QF/EK partnership.

Also DXB to BUD

 

[defurax]

I believe Africa is also excluded from the QF/EK partnership.

Also DXB to BUD

According to this press release (QANTAS AND EMIRATES TO EXTEND PARTNERSHIP), here's the number of QF/EK codeshare. So there are 14 destinations in Africa & Middle East.

Together Qantas and Emirates provide customers with more than 100 codeshare destinations including:

• 33 codeshare destinations in Europe
• 60 codeshare destinations in Australia and New Zealand
• 14 codeshare destinations in Africa and the Middle East
• 2 codeshare destinations in Asia

 

[Isochronous]

I wonder if some snail mail to Mr. Joyce might elicit a reply?

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

DXB - MLA ((by passing LCA)) in the QF SC earn calculator gives a QF code, just only now had some time to look.
But between LCA and MLA, only EK code.
As for whether fares will come up, who knows, but on the QF SC earn part of things, there is a QF code.
As an aside, could it have been possible for the OP to book under a QF code, the PER - DXB flight, (return), just to earn QF SC.

 

[calmelb]

DXB - MLA ((by passing LCA)) in the QF SC earn calculator gives a QF code, just only now had some time to look.
But between LCA and MLA, only EK code.
As for whether fares will come up, who knows, but on the QF SC earn part of things, there is a QF code.
As an aside, could it have been possible for the OP to book under a QF code, the PER - DXB flight, (return), just to earn QF SC.

It could be that the system is not seeing it as DXB-MLA, and with the gap going “ah we can’t offer a codeshare on the stop routing”

Also yes it could’ve been. If one flight doesn’t come with a QF code it can still be booked as majority QF (I made a booking coming from lhr to Mel, the EK2 didn’t come with a QF code but the EK408 did. So i won’t earn anything on the 2, but will get the full load on the 408, and I did it because I needed those flights and I’m losing P1 at the end of my renewal month so I should drop to WP)