Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

[milehighclub]

How are FA's allocated to the F/J/Y (or J/Y) cabins on a particular flight? Do you have to do extra training to be in the F/J cabins?

To work in F/J you need to be a BFA - Business/First Flight Attendant. It requires an application and a weeks training. The pay is the same.

Economy and Premium Economy flight attendants are classed as A/C which is a code from a long time ago and stands for "Air Chef".

Each flight has a certain number of BFA's and A/C's depending on the aircraft type.

For example:
767 - 1 CSM 1 CSS 2 BFA and 3 A/C
A330-200 1 CSM 1 CSS 3 BFA 3 A/C
A380 1 CSM 1 CSS 10 BFA 9 A/C

Due do to disruptions, delays, and sickness both at home and overseas, the number of each type can become unbalanced. Where possible they will replace a crew member with a crew member from that category, however that's not always possible. It's expected that you may have to work "out of category" so an A/C might have to work in Business (they wouldn't be put in First) or a BFA in economy.

Work positions on the aircraft are then done on seniority (except on the A380 where the CSM makes the decision with preferences filled where possible). The most senior crew member will pick a position to work on the aircraft based on their category, and so on until all the positions are filled. Where crew sit on the aircraft determines where they work onboard and their certain responsibilities.

For example:
Sitting at R4 on the 747 - your responsible for the economy galley
Sitting at the overwing exit on a 767 in the left seat - you board at the door
Sitting at R2 on the 747/A330 - your responsible for the business class galley
Sitting at M1L on the A380 - your responsible for seats 1-5A, 5F and 5K

 

[reductionist]

Fascinating stuff. Thanks.

 

[milehighclub]

In regards to working in F and J - the way I've described it is how it works for long haul crew. For short haul crew it works a bit differently. They don't have a BFA category. All the positions are done in seniority and they can work between the two cabins.

 

[anat0l]

In regards to working in F and J - the way I've described it is how it works for long haul crew. For short haul crew it works a bit differently. They don't have a BFA category. All the positions are done in seniority and they can work between the two cabins.

Thanks for the info milehighclub.

It probably might be painful (perhaps intrusive) to ask, but is there a position on (shorthaul, longhaul) aircraft that is the least preferred by any cabin crew? Why?

I suppose these would be the positions most likely to be filled by the most junior of staff (i.e. since the more senior get first dibs, they are likely not to pick the least preferred working positions... I'd assume...)

 

[milehighclub]

It probably might be painful (perhaps intrusive) to ask, but is there a position on (shorthaul, longhaul) aircraft that is the least preferred by any cabin crew? Why?

I suppose these would be the positions most likely to be filled by the most junior of staff (i.e. since the more senior get first dibs, they are likely not to pick the least preferred working positions... I'd assume...)

No question (pretty much) that I won't answer for you all!!

Very good question actually.

In my experience for economy positions the economy galley is usually one of the last positions to be allocated (meaning the most junior crew member gets it). Of course some crew enjoy that position (myself included)

On the 767 and A330 there isn't really a least preferred for the premium cabins since there is no first - your either the in the galley or in the cabin. On the 747 with first, R4A was usually the last position left for BFA crew (again meaning the most junior BFA got it). It involved a lot of hopping around the aircraft. You used to do the J bar upstairs, the J meal downstairs, then finish off in economy.

Some crew like certain positions over others. I never really liked duty free but other crew love it and can get good commission. Duty free is done by an economy crew member, so as a BFA myself, I don't have to do it anymore. I prefer galley positions in F and J and can usually get it.

 

[Major]

When a crew member becomes ill overseas do they simply stay in their hotel room until fit for duty ?

Obviously the seriously ill would be taken to hospital.

 

[milehighclub]

When a crew member becomes ill overseas do they simply stay in their hotel room until fit for duty ?

Obviously the seriously ill would be taken to hospital.

For medical treatment overseas we call Medaire. It's a 24 hour emergency contact and can be called collect from any overseas port. The Medaire operation centre is based in Arizona. This is the same company that also provides us with medical assistance onboard the aircraft.

You usually speak to a nurse first and explain what is wrong. Depending on what is wrong they will do one of the following:

- Provide general advice to get better if it is nothing serious. What to go take if it is something over the counter.
- Arrange for a visit to the doctor/hospital
- Arrange for a doctor to visit you

Medaire does all the talking back to Qantas - we don't contact Qantas at all. A manager back in Australia usually calls the crew member to offer support.

When you believe your fit enough to fly, a call to Medaire is required for a final check up and if they agree that your fit enough they ring our operations department to arrange for a flight home. You are then usually sent home as a passenger.

When your back home and depending on the illness, you may have to see a doctor to get a final all clear. Some illnesses (such as anything gastro) by law require a visit to a DAME doctor (Designated Aviation Medicine Examiner) to get clearance to fly again even if a doctor overseas said your 100%.

You are allowed to leave your room (if your able to) to go get food and supplies or just some fresh air.

 

[anat0l]

This might also belong partly to the pilot's thread, but let's see how we go...

In light of a topic which is topping on the New Posts at the moment, in your experience (cabin crew or milehighclub et al.), how many people really keep their seatbelts fastened at designated times (i.e. when seated even with the sign off, or, more critically, when the sign is turned on)?

In a related question, I only know it in Qantas (every carrier is slightly different in the rules), but when the seatbelt sign comes on before landing, the directive by the final PA is, "The seatbelt sign has been turned on. All passengers and crew must now be seated for landing." In reality, we sometimes still see some crew moving through the cabin (of course to return to their designated seat), but is there another "final call" or signal for you to take your seats for landing, or do you doubly confirm this with flight deck somehow? (In some aircraft where I've been, there is a directive from flight deck, "Cabin crew, be seated for landing" which is audible across the cabin. In a similar vein, before take-off many carriers have an audible directive from flight deck, "Cabin crew, be seated for take-off", but Qantas does not do this).


Finally, can you describe how often the crew has to deal with incidents involving smoking (tobacco or otherwise) on board, and what are the kinds of procedures that need to be followed in the case of such incidents? (I realise the last half-question is rather broad as it does depend a lot on what happens as a result of the incident...)

 

[milehighclub]

This might also belong partly to the pilot's thread, but let's see how we go...

In light of a topic which is topping on the New Posts at the moment, in your experience (cabin crew or milehighclub et al.), how many people really keep their seatbelts fastened at designated times (i.e. when seated even with the sign off, or, more critically, when the sign is turned on)?

In a related question, I only know it in Qantas (every carrier is slightly different in the rules), but when the seatbelt sign comes on before landing, the directive by the final PA is, "The seatbelt sign has been turned on. All passengers and crew must now be seated for landing." In reality, we sometimes still see some crew moving through the cabin (of course to return to their designated seat), but is there another "final call" or signal for you to take your seats for landing, or do you doubly confirm this with flight deck somehow? (In some aircraft where I've been, there is a directive from flight deck, "Cabin crew, be seated for landing" which is audible across the cabin. In a similar vein, before take-off many carriers have an audible directive from flight deck, "Cabin crew, be seated for take-off", but Qantas does not do this).


Finally, can you describe how often the crew has to deal with incidents involving smoking (tobacco or otherwise) on board, and what are the kinds of procedures that need to be followed in the case of such incidents? (I realise the last half-question is rather broad as it does depend a lot on what happens as a result of the incident...)

When the seat belt sign is off it amazes me how many don't keep it on. And I have never understood why. Even if you have it on very loose it isn't annoying IMO. Cabin crew wear seat belts in their bunks or seats as do the pilots.

One thing I love about our seat belt policy at Qantas is that it is for everyone. This makes it easier to understand and easier to enforce. When a passenger stands up and they see you seated and secured and you tell them to sit it sets a good example. Crew can call the flight deck to ask for the sign to be put on if they believe crew and passengers are at risk being up.

We have 2 ways that are communicated to us to sit down. All involve the seat belt sign so when ever it is on, you will see crew sit down.

1) The sign will come on followed by "All passengers and crew be seated and fasten seat belts". This indicates that turbulence is expected and that we have about a minute to secure everything and return to a jump seat

2) The sign will come on followed by "All passengers and crew be seated and fasten seat belts IMMEDIATELY". If this is made it is likely that turbulence is already happening. Crew must wedge themselves in the aisle or sit anywhere immediately. We shouldn't attempt to get back to a jump seat.

On landing when the sign will comes on you will notice that there is no PA made from the pilots. When no PA is made by the pilots we know that we are about to land and that final PA that you mentioned is actually made by the CSM.

After we are seated in preparation for landing a final call to all crew is made by the CSM to ensure everyone is seated, although this isn't passed on to the flight deck. This has just being recently introduced.

On the A380 you will notice the seat belt sign flash when the crew are seated. This indicates to crew that the "no contact" period has begun. On all other aircraft this starts when the landing gear is put down, but on such a large aircraft it can be hard to hear this especially from the upper deck. So to indicate the start of the "no contact "period to the crew on the A380 the seat belt sign is turned off and on for a double ding.

The "no contact" period is when under no circumstances are the cabin crew to call the flight deck. It doesn't matter if their is fire, an explosion, you name it - no matter what - crew CANNOT call the pilots to let them know (and if you called they will ignore).

There are two periods of no contact. The first commences from take off roll and finishes after gear up (except on the A380 which is after the aircraft is off the ground - again because you can't always hear the gear). The second commences from landing gear down (or the double ding as mentioned above) until the aircraft completely stops or moves of the active runway.



If someone is caught smoking it is most commonly a verbal warning and an inspection of wherever they were caught to check for smoke and fire and confiscation of the lighter and smokes. A second offence would get them a visit from the police on landing although I have seen a passenger be greeted after being caught the first time. I have dealt with smokers onboard twice in 9 years and once would you believe they were smoking weed!!!

 

[anat0l]

Thanks again for your replies, milehighclub.

The "no contact" period is when under no circumstances are the cabin crew to call the flight deck. It doesn't matter if their is fire, an explosion, you name it - no matter what - crew CANNOT call the pilots to let them know (and if you called they will ignore).

There are two periods of no contact. The first commences from take off roll and finishes after gear up (except on the A380 which is after the aircraft is off the ground - again because you can't always hear the gear). The second commences from landing gear down (or the double ding as mentioned above) until the aircraft completely stops or moves of the active runway.

Interesting that you mention this "no contact" period. I would suppose that the period is intended to be "short" and the risk of anything going wrong that would vitally require flight deck / cabin crew interaction would be very, very low. Is this the idea? (I can see, however, that due to the flight deck needing to concentrate on actually landing the aircraft, "distractions" should be very much minimised).

If the aircraft has to go-around, is the "no contact" period still in force, or is it temporarily lifted? What about for aborted landings that result in a diversion to another airport? (I'm assuming the latter is a remote scenario and I've never experienced it, so apologies if it is "too hypothetical")

If someone is caught smoking it is most commonly a verbal warning and an inspection of wherever they were caught to check for smoke and fire and confiscation of the lighter and smokes. A second offence would get them a visit from the police on landing although I have seen a passenger be greeted after being caught the first time. I have dealt with smokers onboard twice in 9 years and once would you believe they were smoking weed!!!

I am not a smoker (I have to say this because someone - a smoker - will inevitably say that I'm being unduly insensitive to smokers), but I find that rather lenient in the scheme of things. Confiscation of smokes and lighter is probably a hard slap (although that relies on the pax actually "in good faith" giving up these items and not withholding more of them), but if the airline industry collectively takes a stern view on smoking then I would've thought a more substantial penalty - at minimum, a steep fine and a "permanent record" kept of the offense (not necessarily a criminal record) - would be a minimum. As it stands, you will probably be more heavily penalised for breaking a smoking law whilst on the ground (e.g. caught smoking in a restaurant or the like) compared to in the air! But, so be it.

Smoking weed... well, that doesn't create a great environment for the next patron(s) of that affected toilet. Probably will need to be blocked off, or carrying a warning sign.

 

[milehighclub]

The no contact period is over two very brief periods. The take off one is shorter than the landing one. As you gathered it is to prevent any distractions to the flight deck who more than likely would be aware of it.

During landing the no contact period is based on the landing gear up or down. In a go around the gear would be retracted and that would end the no contact period. It would commence when the pilots try and land again and the gear is extended. As I mentioned there are zero exceptions so as long as the gear is down the no contact period is in place.

 

[harvyk]

Just thinking about seatbelt signs and people ignoring them. On a few flights I've heard the FA \ CSM come onto the PA to tell someone to sit back down as the seatbelt sign is still on. Whilst each time I've then seen the rather embarrassed pax sit back down (and one of those times it was during turbulence, so future Darwin awards winner I'm sure) if the pax was to simply ignore the request by the FA \ CSM is there anything else they can do apart from repeat the msg over the PA multiple times?

Also I'm not sure if this has already been asked, but how long in advanced do you know your schedule, and do you have any control over where you'll fly to?

 

[milehighclub]

We are required to inform anyone who stands to sit down whenever the sign is on. That could be via a PA or you may just have to yell. Once that is done our obligations are covered. Should the passenger continue to stand or move, they waive Qantas of any responsibility if they get hurt. Crew will also try and tell them this.

In some circumstances people will always stand up. The most common is kids who need to use the loo or they risk peeing their pants.

Rosters for short haul crew are 28 days
Rosters for long haul crew are 56 days

Since I am long haul I will have to give it from my experience. The current roster we are on goes till the 12/2. The next roster goes from 13/2 till 8/4. The roster for that period will come out about 10 days or so before it commences. So we get plenty of time to organise our lives around flying.

Crew do have control over where the fly depending on their contract and aircraft.

If your Qantas crew you can choose which flights you want to operate. For each roster a pattern book is published and contains every single flight required to be operated. Crew allocate points against which trips they want, then the system allocates it based on seniority and ensuring that as many crew get the trips that they want. Trips can be as short as day trip to as long as 10 days. The more senior you are - the better chance you will get what you want.

If you work on the A380 regardless if your QCCA or QAL, the rosters are designed to be fair share, meaning that the system will try and allocate an equal amount of LA, SIN and HKG flying to each crew member. It is not always 100% but it does it's best. Crew on the A380 can bid but only for the days off that they would like. AKL and LHR crew can also bid for days off but not for the destination (which for LHR crew is only SIN anyway)

When rosters are published, crew generally start swapping trips to help them achieve what they were unable to get from bidding.

 

[anat0l]

In some circumstances people will always stand up.

Small side note, but I noticed when I was flying SQ from NRT-SIN (and the flight at NRT was loaded with what I presume were many touring Chinese - I don't think they were Japanese, and they had plenty of shopping with them), when we landed at SIN, as soon as the plane was on the ground with all wheels, many pax in my part of the cabin (i.e. the touring Chinese) started standing up already, even though we were taxiing and well far away from the gate. Needless to say, the ever non-confronting pacifist SQ crew had to kindly mention to all to sit down (more than once) until we were stable at the gate.


Sometimes, my hat really goes off to you cabin crew for the patience you must possess.

 

[Mattg]

Is each crew member assigned to just one type of aircraft?

 

[milehighclub]

QantasLink crew are trained on all the regional aircraft

Qantas Shorthaul crew are trained on the A330/767/737

Qantas Longhaul crew (along with the AKL and NRT base) are trained on the A330/767/747

The A380 is crewed by a separate pool of longhaul crew who are only trained on that aircraft (although some are also trained on the 747 - this is because of the A380 grounding. Crew were retrained on the 747 to assist with the increase in 747 flying. Their priority is to fly on the A380 but occasionally will do 747 flying)

The LHR base are trained on the A380/747

Shorthaul crew don't fly with Longhaul crew. Short haul do operate international flights but these flights must have than 3 or less time zone changes (ADL-SIN/SYD-JKT/MNL/HKG)

 

[harvyk]

Milehighclub, what sort of a/c do you typically work on? Do you have a preference for a/c type you like to work and do you have an a/c type you hate to work on?

Also thinking long haul where the a/c will sit at the gate for some time prior to boarding, how long before departure will cabin crew board the plane, and what needs to be done prior to allowing pax to board?

On long haul flights after the meal service and the lights go out, but your still on duty what do you guys actually do? Is there things which need to be done (eg clean galley's) or is that pretty much free time unless the FA call button is pressed?

 

[garee]

Do JQ & QF staff members have the same priority on QF. eg A JQ and QF flight attendant using staff travel for a vacation.

Would the QF attendant get priority over the JQ for a J seat.

 

[milehighclub]

Each aircraft has their pros and cons. The 747 has bunks whereas the 767/A330 don't. The 767 is a great aircraft and very easy to work on with a very spacious economy galley occupied by only 4 crew. The 767 and A330 have everything in the appropriate galley whereas the 747 has stuff everywhere!

Most longhaul crew would work on the 747 or A330 since the 767 only goes to HNL (which is a very senior trip)

Cabin crew sign on 1 hour prior to departure in an overseas port. If the aircraft is ready to board when the crew arrive, then we can go on straight away. On transit flights, if the aircraft isn't cleaned and catered we would wait until this is completed as we just get in the way. Some ports also require us to wait for a security check to be complete (like on flights to the US)

Once onboard crew complete an emergency equipment and security check. Every piece of emergency equipment onboard the aircraft is checked by crew to make sure it is serviceable. This include the oxygen bottles full, extinguishers not used, torch, lifejackets (for crew - engineers check passenger seats), beacons present, infant seat belts etc. If an item is not serviceable it will be either replaced, or replaced at the next port if the aircraft can depart without it. The CSM has an extra task of unlocking the "lockables" which includes the physicians kit, defib and restraints and making sure they are present and the defib working. It probably takes about a minute to do the whole thing as every crew member is responsible for the equipment in their area.

Prior to boarding the CSM will do an all stations call, and each crew member responds from their door "Emergency equipment and security check complete, door disarmed, pin inserted". This also checks that the phone is working at that door.

This is done as soon as the crew get onboard. After the check, crew then commence preparing the cabin. Headsets placed, amenities, unwrapping blankets in first, checking the catering, pre pouring drinks etc. Before boarding can commence (which should commence at 45 minutes to departure on international flights) the captain or an engineer needs to give approval for boarding.

Once the lights are out we regularly check and clean the toilets and patrol the cabins. Crew may be offering the new snack items in economy on long flights. In business the crew would be preparing the breakfast trays. Crew are also responsible for looking after the pilots so could be making drinks or preparing a meal. In all cabins crew would be completing any required documentation. This would include the C209 which is bar customs form. We also have what is called an ASO and ABO. An ASO (aircraft stores order) is completed to replace any items used during the flight that are not uploaded unless they are ordered from this form (the exception being LHR where there is an automatic upload of these items). This includes tea and coffee, napkins, pens, kid packs, gloves, paper towels and soft drinks. An ABO (aircraft bar order) is completed to order alcohol when the bars are not fully exchanged. For example flights that transit in Singapore don't have a bar exchanged. Flights to LAX on the other hand have a full exchange.

Call bells of course must be attended too. Otherwise we are making drinks or meals for ourselves and chatting about what we will do or did and a little bit of galley gossip!

 

[milehighclub]

Do JQ & QF staff members have the same priority on QF. eg A JQ and QF flight attendant using staff travel for a vacation.

Would the QF attendant get priority over the JQ for a J seat.

It depends on that category that you are. For example a JQ exec would trump me. A JQ flight attendant would be the same category as me but if my start date is before theirs - I would trump them.

In reverse JQ operate a "first in best dressed" policy so doesn't matter what your QF priority is - if your in the line first, you get the seat first (if there are any available)