Oatmeal primner on Grammar and Spelling

[Happy Trails]

@TonyHancock You generally shouldn't use a comma before and.

Generally perhaps, but I took it to be an Oxford comma.

 

[Danger]

@TonyHancock You generally shouldn't use a comma before and.

Generally perhaps, but I took it to be an Oxford comma.

I agree. Here's an article from a few weeks back that addresses this issue and, specifically, the somewhat rare occasions when " . . ., and" is acceptable. I especially like "For teaching me that the Oxford comma resolves ambiguity, I'd like to thank my parents, Sinead O'Connor and the Pope," said Twitter user Aaron Suggs. Very good example of a rare occasion.

And another one from me: oneworld, not Oneworld, OneWorld, oneWorld, one world etc.

 

[simongr]

Generally perhaps, but I took it to be an Oxford comma.

I do not think that it is in fact an Oxford comma at all given that it is not separating a list or enhancing clarity. I think that it is an erroneous comma.

 

[codash1099]

Punctuation goes in to allow the reader to take a breath.

My favourite on this forum is people who get a seat on the "isle". If I'm actually going to fly rather than camp, my preference is for the "aisle".

 

[TonyHancock]

Punctuation goes in to allow the reader to take a breath.

Indeed!

I can't believe I'm about to do this. (Gives big sigh!)

If I can understand the poster's point then I'm happy, and in reality that is all that matters on most sites.

In this sentence the comma is there to separate two main clauses. It is perfectly acceptable for the comma to be used this way. (Please refer to The Oxford Companion to the English Language, page 236 Commas with clauses (2).) The clauses are not distinct enough to use a colon or semi colon. In this case it is not an Oxford comma.

I assume that simongr was jesting with his retort and responded accordingly.

This demonstrates why it is better to avoid comments on grammar and focus on content. (Admittedly there is little content in the majority of my posts worth focusing on!)

I'll be the first to stick my hand up and admit my grammar and spelling is sloppy, so I won't pick on others. (Unless they start first!!!)

 

[medhead]

I'm also usually not one to correct spelling/grammar, despite appearances to the contrary. However, I have known for a long time that I didn't understand affect/effect and then/than without bothering to expand my knowledge. However, I was recently put onto the Oatmeal and had a good look around. This then showed me the correct usage of those words and I've found it has really helped.

I have also noticed that there are some consistent misuses of words around here. So rather than correct those people I thought posting the oatmeal explanation might a way for others to benefit from what has helped me.

BTW Some of you may have also noticed incorrect there/their in my posts. This is not due to my lack of understanding, but more my laziness in proof reading. I also swear there have been a number of times that I've typed their into the iphone app only to find a there later. I suspect an autocorrect failure, but given my lack of proof reading I'm not sure why this happens. The other thing I always do is drop contractions, n't and 'd. I know I have thought the contraction while typing, so I can only think this is caused by me thinking to fast for my typing. Dropped contractions can make it really hard to understand.

 

[TonyHancock]

BTW So of you may have also notice incorrect there/their in my posts. This is not due to my lack of understand, but more my laziness in proof reading.

I can totally understand! It must be incredibly difficult when English is not your first language. *

As long as people can grasp the thrust of the post then I just don't see a problem.




























* Sorry medhead I couldn't resist! BTW I like reading your posts.

 

[medhead]

I can totally understand! It must be incredibly difficult when English is not your first language. *

If only I could claim more than one language, I'd be happy.

As long as people can grasp the thrust of the post then I just don't see a problem.

Indeed. My trouble is when I go back to read my posts and can't understand them, myself.

 

[TonyHancock]

Indeed. My trouble is when I go back to read my posts and can't understand them, myself.

I know that feeling exactly. I often reread my earlier posts and wonder what mind altering substance I must have been taking!! (...and then I remember it will be that fine selection of Chateau Dan Murphy!)

 

[simongr]

I was responding in jest to a certain degree. I had in fact not heard of an Oxford comma until earlier this morning

However I do find that certain words that are misspelled really irk me. Loose is a particular miscreant. What I find when reading posts with lots of misused words is that I can't be bothered trying to understand the original writer's intent - if they can not be bothered to read what they wrote then I can't be bothered to read it either. Commas get tossed around with gay abandon and don't even get me started with the proliferation of semi colons :evil:

I spend a large part of my job reviewing reports and documents and constantly have to amend for small errors that overall impact on the quality of the finished product.

I generally don't comment on grammar or spelling as it is a bit pointless (unless I am poking fun at medhead) but equally I don't respond to the poster if their post is full of lazy errors (there/their etc.)

 

[TonyHancock]

Please don't set me off again. I have only just completed my pedantry rehabilitation, I was doing so well too.

That should be a semicolon after 'rehabilitation'.

I don't believe so. I have consulted The Oxford Companion To The English Language* and am relatively confident that a comma will suffice. It is true that I could have used either a semi colon or colon, but there is no absolute rule.

I have posted here rather than go off topic...ahem...ahem..in that other thread!

*Page 236, Commas with clauses, (2).

 

[RB]

Most people make grammatical or spelling mistakes at some time. My pet peeve is when posters pick up on grammar and spelling rather than address the post content. If I can understand the poster's point then I'm happy, and in reality that is all that matters on most sites. (Understanding the poster's point that is.........not my happiness...although I do think that is quite important! )

With the advent of SMS the English language will evolve further away from the grammar we, of a certain generation, were taught. It's just evolution. :-|

I am a bit late joining this thread. A bit of a rant here from a guy born in 1956. Sorry Tony but your attitude to spelling and grammar began at a time when parties in society decided to go soft on things. It was decided that students were no longer deemed to have failed and teachers were not to use red pen or put crosses on errors. We also introduced “veggie” maths, cut holes in bin tops for the lazy ones and generally went soft on things. The powers of police were curbed, many wanted no one to have their feelings hurt and swearing became more mainstream.
Now we are too far gone to change things. There are now many English teachers that don’t know how to spell or how to properly construct sentences. We now have many people full of excuses (fat finger etc) and others that mangle wise old sayings.
I don’t consider myself old and twisted but no I don’t like accepting that close enough is good enough-that is what gives you disinterested flight attendants, poorly mannered travellers & in some areas pilots that are not reigned in. From earlier threads it seems that many on this board do not enjoy these outcomes.
Maybe it is just evolution I don't enjoy

 

[TonyHancock]

Sorry Tony but your attitude to spelling and grammar...........

I'm not sure I know what you mean.

I hope you are not confusing my desire to avoid extended nitpicking, and pedantic arguments on internet forums with my actual view on grammar and spelling.

My grammar, spelling and sentence construction is simply not good enough for me to criticise anyone, and it is a risky business criticising, in writing, grammar and spelling standards. A single mistake and everyone will be pointing it out and questioning the right to criticise others. (Rightly so.)

Are you certain that your post would stand up to scrutiny?

 

[oz_mark]

I'm not sure I know what you mean.

I hope you are not confusing my desire to avoid extended nitpicking, and pedantic arguments on internet forums with my actual view on grammar and spelling.

My grammar, spelling and sentence construction is simply not good enough for me to criticise anyone, and it is a risky business criticising, in writing, grammar and spelling standards. A single mistake and everyone will be pointing it out and questioning the right to criticise others. (Rightly so.)

Why not? Certain News organisations have built an entire businesses holding others to standards they themselves cannot meet :shock:

 

[medhead]

Wow. What a misinformed rant. If you don't know what fat fingers means then clearly you don't have an iPhone and rarely type anything on a computer.

No use of red pens? Where is this because every bit of schooling I've experienced, including for my children today, used red pens.

Veggie maths? Because it is so much better to teach everyone to iteratively solve multi-order differential equations rather than how to calculate the interest on their mortgage. But then having the opportunity to demonstrate during postgraduate to undergrad engineers I have the impression they did veggie maths.

 

[TonyHancock]

Why not? Certain News organisations have built an entire businesses holding others to standards they themselves cannot meet :shock:

.....well it is because I'm not a certain news organisation, and I don't believe I have the right to live by one set of standards and judge others by another set. I hope that the majority of people I meet and work with might share similar views. Perhaps I am just naive.

 

[Happy Trails]

I am a bit late joining this thread. A bit of a rant here from a guy born in 1956. Sorry Tony but your attitude to spelling and grammar began at a time when parties in society decided to go soft on things. It was decided that students were no longer deemed to have failed and teachers were not to use red pen or put crosses on errors. We also introduced “veggie” maths, cut holes in bin tops for the lazy ones and generally went soft on things. The powers of police were curbed, many wanted no one to have their feelings hurt and swearing became more mainstream.
Now we are too far gone to change things. There are now many English teachers that don’t know how to spell or how to properly construct sentences. We now have many people full of excuses (fat finger etc) and others that mangle wise old sayings.
I don’t consider myself old and twisted but no I don’t like accepting that close enough is good enough-that is what gives you disinterested flight attendants, poorly mannered travellers & in some areas pilots that are not reigned in. From earlier threads it seems that many on this board do not enjoy these outcomes.
Maybe it is just evolution I don't enjoy

Well, as a self-described stickler you might want to check out "reigned in" (sic).

 

[Lawlass]

I don’t consider myself old and twisted but no I don’t like accepting that close enough is good enough-that is what gives you disinterested flight attendants, poorly mannered travellers & in some areas pilots that are not reigned in. From earlier threads it seems that many on this board do not enjoy these outcomes.

The problem with rants like these is you invite people to point out things like:

Disinterested means "impartial" or "not taking sides." (In other words, not having a personal interest at stake.)



Uninterested means "not interested." (In other words, not showing any interest.)

 

[JohnK]

I am not one to criticise but there is a huge difference between typing errors and poor grammar and/or spelling. There is nothing wrong with the occasional mistake but some posts are just riddled with poor grammar and/or spelling.

Even justifying the evolution of the Engish language through sms and internet is not an excuse. Poor grammar and/or spelling is simply not good enough unless English is not your first language.

Some common mistakes not mentioned

Seperate is not word
Desparate is not a word
Eligable is definitely not a word
Definately is not an eligible word
Know/Now are not even close
Poor/pour sad if you have this one wrong
Their/There/They're some people have no idea

P.S I hope this post is not riddled with poor grammar and/or spelling. Note though English is not my first language but in fact my 3rd language.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Punctuation goes in to allow the reader to take a breath.

My favourite on this forum is people who get a seat on the "isle". If I'm actually going to fly rather than camp, my preference is for the "aisle".

Reminds me of a funny thing I saw written on a blackboard at a service station once....."three words in a bride's mind at the church - I'll, alter, him". A male friend said once that women marry men because they think they'll change & men marry women because they think they won't. :shock:

I am not one to criticise but there is a huge difference between typing errors and poor grammar and/or spelling. There is nothing wrong with the occasional mistake but some posts are just riddled with poor grammar and/or spelling.

Even justifying the evolution of the Engish language through sms and internet is not an excuse. Poor grammar and/or spelling is simply not good enough unless English is not your first language.

Some common mistakes not mentioned

Seperate is not word
Desparate is not a word
Eligable is definitely not a word
Definately is not an eligible word
Know/Now are not even close
Poor/pour sad if you have this one wrong
Their/There/They're some people have no idea

P.S I hope this post is not riddled with poor grammar and/or spelling. Note though English is not my first language but in fact my 3rd language.

So what's the other language besides Greek?