Obama fans have had their adrenaline rush, now it's my turn to have mine

[oz_mark]

Yes. It will pay for my green slip, registration and insurance this week.

Seriously though I think you are right. A fiscal stimulus package was not going to stop the global economic crisis affecting Australia. We are in for some tough times ahead and it is time to tighten the belt....

Maybe I am just upset I got exactly zero out of it, but really I can't see that it made things any better.

 

[docjames]

Sadly, i'm inclined to agree with oz_mark.

No $1000 for me, and the economy's still in the outhouse.

Didnt work. But, predictably, it was never going to. But it'll no doubt have helped KRudd win some more votes come election-time.

 

[simongr]

Yes. It will pay for my green slip, registration and insurance this week.

Great so instead of the Fed Govt wasting money the NSW Govt can waste it...

The logic was just simply flawed - give money to people who are living generally in the hardest hit position with credit and they are less likely to spend it to boost the economy... $1,000 my way would have gone straight on more expensive baby stuff...

 

[Moody]

Great so instead of the Fed Govt wasting money the NSW Govt can waste it...

The logic was just simply flawed - give money to people who are living generally in the hardest hit position with credit and they are less likely to spend it to boost the economy... $1,000 my way would have gone straight on more expensive baby stuff...

Maybe I am just upset I got exactly zero out of it, but really I can't see that it made things any better.

Sadly, i'm inclined to agree with oz_mark.

No $1000 for me, and the economy's still in the outhouse.

Didnt work. But, predictably, it was never going to. But it'll no doubt have helped KRudd win some more votes come election-time.

Obviously you are all cashed-up bogans who have paid off the mortgage on the McMansion. Me I'm in debt to the tune of $500K+ and so I am currently $1000+ per month better off than I was under Coward. Never got his poxy pokie (sorry - baby) bonus so maybe its sour grapes, but anyone who thinks him and Costello were economic geniuses needs to remove their blue-tinted glasses. The regressive GST plus booming commodity prices lined their pockets with gold, which they then duly passed on to private schools and health funds to make them more affordable for the masses. There was still plenty of money left to achieve more practical reforms, but instead they religiously pursued debt reduction rather than balancing it with infrastructure investment to cushion the inevitable downswing.

No one could have forseen the severity of the current GFC, but a bit more resilience in our economy may have staved off the recession. Of course the coalition will trout it out as evidence of Labour economic mismanagement and there are enough aspirational little morons out there to make it worth their while to do so. We are on the same sort of populist dumbing down of politics route that the USA follows, so I fear we will get good governments in future by accident rather than design. I used to vote Democrat as they seemed to have some sort of ideals, but as soon as they were put to the test they failed. Power corrupts I suppose.

Anyway - I am going to do my bit for the economy and buy a new car and motorbike this year and holiday at home rather than overseas. OK - I might go to NZ but that doesn't count, does it?

 

[oz_mark]

Obviously you are all cashed-up bogans who have paid off the mortgage on the McMansion.

I wish.

Me I'm in debt to the tune of $500K+ and so I am currently $1000+ per month better off than I was under Coward. Never got his poxy pokie (sorry - baby) bonus so maybe its sour grapes, but anyone who thinks him and Costello were economic geniuses needs to remove their blue-tinted glasses.

Never said they were geniuses. I was asking specifically about this one thing. I too am in debt, and my interest payments have come down, but in no way, shape or form do I believe that any of that has anything to do with the current government. They would have come down either way.

The regressive GST plus booming commodity prices lined their pockets with gold, which they then duly passed on to private schools and health funds to make them more affordable for the masses. There was still plenty of money left to achieve more practical reforms, but instead they religiously pursued debt reduction rather than balancing it with infrastructure investment to cushion the inevitable downswing.

I certainly agree more could have been done on the infrastructure front during the boom times we went through.

No one could have forseen the severity of the current GFC, but a bit more resilience in our economy may have staved off the recession.

While there were a few that saw it coming they were definitely a minority. However, the question is, was the fiscal stimulus a good response to the situation they found themselves in, and did it make things any better?

 

[NM]

Obviously you are all cashed-up bogans who have paid off the mortgage on the McMansion.

Having a mortgage was not a criteria in determining who got the handout and who didn't. I believe the requirement was being eligible for Part A of Family Assistance. Many people who did not get the handout are also struggling with the costs of raising a family, back-to-school costs, kids extra-curricular activities AND paying off a mortgage at the same time.

I in no way consider myself a cashed up bogan. In fact, I have a significant debt (mortgage) and having 4 kids ensures I am never cashed up. But that did not stop Mr Rudd from deciding I am not a worthy recipient of his cash hand-out. If we had received the payout we may have chosen to spend it on an upgraded summer holiday. But we can thank Mr Rudd for ensuring we had a great time camping by the Mary River for 5 days this holiday period. A truly enjoyable experience indeed.

 

[JohnK]

I never mentioned that I received a $1,000 handout from the government. The fact is I got absolutely nothing.

What I actually said was "It will pay for my green slip, registration and insurance this week" with a at the end of the statement in response to Oz_marks' comments on what the fiscal stimulus package has achieved.

So in this instance one does not necessarily need to receive the $1,000 handout from the Federal Government in order to waste the money on the NSW Government....

 

[simongr]

What I actually said was "It will pay for my green slip, registration and insurance this week" with a at the end of the statement in response to Oz_marks' comments on what the fiscal stimulus package has achieved.

So in this instance one does not necessarily need to receive the $1,000 handout from the Federal Government in order to waste the money on the NSW Government....

Sorry about that JohnK - wasn't meant to be a dig at you. I too am not a cashed up bogan and due to my bank not having moved the interest rate on my loan I am not having any benefit of reduced interest rates at all :evil:

 

[codash1099]

Didnt work. But, predictably, it was never going to. But it'll no doubt have helped KRudd win some more votes come election-time.

Of course we'll never know what position we might have been in if the handout hadn't happened.

 

[Alanslegal]

From my first hand experience in my course of my employ, most of the people that received those once off December bonuses from Kevin07 did spend it. That was the ultimate purpose wasn't it?

Regardless of where or how it was spent, the fact that it was spent is all that matters. It means more cash in the economy and likely to be more positive than negative.

Its easy to say $10.4billion spent on the poorer, less fortunate people in
our society but then when $x tens or hundreds of millions/billions locally and internationally is used to bail out various groups of the economy such as fianance & banking, motor industries, ABC Child Care Centres but these bail outs don't get a huge hoo-har compared to giving $1400 to Mr. Pensioner or Miss 14year old Mother of 2.

Selfishly I would have liked $1,400 handout and I would have easily spent it. But I guess Kevin07's logic is likely to be that more fortunate folks are likely to spend, abliet a bit wisely, during economic tough times. Less fortunate folks are going to eventually spend all their bonuses anyway - these people I guess would not save under any circumstance and spend all their limited income so $1,000 or $1,400 will eventually filter back.

 

[docjames]

Obviously you are all cashed-up bogans who have paid off the mortgage on the McMansion.

Sadly I'm not "cashed up".

Less sadly I dont think i'm a bogan.

I wish I had a McMansion. I'd settle for any kind of Mansion.

Never got his poxy pokie (sorry - baby) bonus

me neither

Anyone who thinks him and Costello were economic geniuses needs to remove their blue-tinted glasses.

None of the posters you're abusing said that. We merely said the $1000 handout was rubbish. Which it is and was.

No one could have forseen the severity of the current GFC, but a bit more resilience in our economy may have staved off the recession.

And you think it's everything the Labor Government has done in the than twelve months between their election and the "crisis" that made it robust?

Of course the coalition will trout it out as evidence of Labour economic mismanagement

It's economic mismanagemtn to give out huge amounts of cash for a reason that had no effect whatsoever and leave yourself in deficit as a result. (Not that all deficits are bad things, but if you're going to spend BILLIONS then make it useful).

Anyway - I am going to do my bit for the economy and buy a new car and motorbike this year and holiday at home rather than overseas. OK - I might go to NZ but that doesn't count, does it?

You sound cashed up, "$500k debt" notwithstanding.

 

[simongr]

From my first hand experience in my course of my employ, most of the people that received those once off December bonuses from Kevin07 did spend it. That was the ultimate purpose wasn't it?

Regardless of where or how it was spent, the fact that it was spent is all that matters. It means more cash in the economy and likely to be more positive than negative.

But if they only used to ease their debt burden are now facing lower credit opportunities - all you have done is funnel money to the "banks" to ease their bad debt risk...

I would personally have like to see more infrastructure spending even as basically as repairing some of NSW roads - that might in fact reduce the burden on the state in the long run...

 

[Moody]

Sadly I'm not "cashed up".

Less sadly I dont think i'm a bogan.

I wish I had a McMansion. I'd settle for any kind of Mansion.
.

Sorry. From your username and profile I assumed your income was $100K+ like mine.

me neither.

So you either haven't had kids recently or earn too much to qualify. Either way - you didn't really need it, eh?

None of the posters you're abusing said that. We merely said the $1000 handout was rubbish. Which it is and was.

The tone of a lot of the posts were that some magical surplus was squandered by Labour for no gain. What actually happened was half of the projected surplus was wiped by the downturn, and the other was invested in the quickest way possible (cash in consumer's pockets) to try and avoid a crash landing. The opportunity for medium and long-term investment has sadly passed for this particular crisis.

Right now we are kangaroo-hopping down the runway and praying we don't end up in the golf-course, but there is bugger-all that anyone can do about it now.

And you think it's everything the Labor Government has done in the than twelve months between their election and the "crisis" that made it robust? .

I must have been a bit vague with my grammar. I was trying to say that medium and long-term investment needed to be made a while back, its too late now for this particular crisis (but not the next one!).

It's economic mismanagemtn to give out huge amounts of cash for a reason that had no effect whatsoever and leave yourself in deficit as a result. (Not that all deficits are bad things, but if you're going to spend BILLIONS then make it useful)..

If you have a brilliant way of making the investment more useful then I am sure there are plenty of people who would listen.

You sound cashed up, "$500k debt" notwithstanding.

Perhaps you could avail us of your impoverished financial position. Up to now I have assumed that everyone here is above the poverty line.

 

[Platy]

But we can thank Mr Rudd for ensuring we had a great time camping by the Mary River for 5 days this holiday period. A truly enjoyable experience indeed.

Surely your own choice, if in part by erudition and in part by good fortune of wisely adapting to circumstance?

 

[NM]

Surely your own choice, if in part by erudition and in part by good fortune of wisely adapting to circumstance?

The NM family budget ensured that the choice was either stay home or a camping adventure. We made the right choice and had a ball. Even the rain didn't dampen the experience too much. Now the costs associated with preparing 3 kids for school and one adult for TAFE has confirmed there were really only two options for the summer holiday experience this year.

 

[Platy]

There was still plenty of money left to achieve more practical reforms, but instead they religiously pursued debt reduction rather than balancing it with infrastructure investment to cushion the inevitable downswing.

No one could have forseen the severity of the current GFC,

Actually some folk did predict the down turn and its severity.

Howard/Costello's FAILURE was far worse than you describe. They ignored the bogey of personal debt, which fueled a growth economy for many years making their political immediate image apepar rosy when in fact they were allowing the intrument of gross destabilisation to balloon unchecked since the debt levels were unsustainable.

Now the difficult question is this - given a system in disequilibrium do you ATTEMPT to encourage the system towards an attractor (literally throw tax payers money at it like the main western govs are up to) OR do you you accept that given tinme the system's perturbations will lessen as it settles towards an equilibrium once more.

Most politicians aren't game to persue the latter sinse it doesn't satify short term survival.

 

[drron]

Actually some folk did predict the down turn and its severity.

Howard/Costello's FAILURE was far worse than you describe. They ignored the bogey of personal debt, which fueled a growth economy for many years making their political immediate image apepar rosy when in fact they were allowing the intrument of gross destabilisation to balloon unchecked since the debt levels were unsustainable.

Now the difficult question is this - given a system in disequilibrium do you ATTEMPT to encourage the system towards an attractor (literally throw tax payers money at it like the main western govs are up to) OR do you you accept that given tinme the system's perturbations will lessen as it settles towards an equilibrium once more.

Most politicians aren't game to persue the latter sinse it doesn't satify short term survival.

Well Howard/Costello werent alone-basically every western government was the same.
Krudd along with all western governments seems to believe you can solve the problems of excessive debt by creating more debt-this may slow the fall but surely heading for bigger problems in the future.
I fully agree with your second solution-it would be painful but a quicker resolution and less total pain in the long run.Problem is it would lose votes.Giving the punters money wins votes-a no brainer which way all governments jump.

 

[Keith009]

Giving the punters money wins votes...

As if there's any other better reason to do anything?

 

[russ]

Sorry. From your username and profile I assumed your income was $100K+ like mine.

If you want to show off about your income, I suggest you set the bar a little higher!

 

[docjames]

Sorry. From your username and profile I assumed your income was $100K+ like mine.

Assumptions make an ....well you know how the rest of it goes.

So you either haven't had kids recently or earn too much to qualify. Either way - you didn't really need it, eh?

Both. And that depends on your defnition of need, but strictly, no, I can survive without it, but claiming it's to stimulate the economy is rubbish. It was vote buying at it's grubbiest.

[edit]

The tone of a lot of the posts were that some magical surplus was squandered by Labour for no gain.

That happens to be my opinion.

Right now we are kangaroo-hopping down the runway and praying we don't end up in the golf-course, but there is bugger-all that anyone can do about it now.

I was trying to say that medium and long-term investment needed to be made a while back, its too late now for this particular crisis (but not the next one!).

I agree with you - more should have been invested over the last 15 years. Mostly in infrastructure in my opinion, but health, education and community services would all be a close second. Too late now (for current problems), my gripe is we've just blown billions ($1k cash handout) that could have been spent on all these things. I do note they've committed funds to infrastructure - probably the best thing they've done in the 12 months or so they've been in power.

If you have a brilliant way of making the investment more useful then I am sure there are plenty of people who would listen.

See above, and as you rightly poiint out, spend some of it 10 years ago!

Perhaps you could avail us of your impoverished financial position. Up to now I have assumed that everyone here is above the poverty line.

I never claimed to be impoverished. But I guess you have a definition where "cashed-up" = anything NOT impoverished :shock:. You're right - i'm above the poverty line, but still find it hard to fathom how I can hold down a steady decent paying job, as does my wife, yet it seems multitudes of other people can go around spending lots of money on cars, plasmas and the like and I can't. Go figure. Oh, and dont interpret that as jealousy, good luck to them, I just wish I knew how they did it (so I could). But the current crisis would suggest they've done it by spending more than they earn, and they're paying for it now.