Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Yep, I've combined 2 QR single segments before

You can never combine 2 single segments like that. Both QF and QR use Amadeus and Amadeus does not permit that to happen. You would've had a situation where the through-availability was there in the first place.

For example if your routing is CAN-X/DOH-MUC, if you sell in the CAN-DOH segment on its own, then search for DOH-MUC separately, Amadeus will return availability as if you searched CAN-MUC. What basically happens is, it takes the contents of the PNR and returns availability based on the PNR content so it will see the already existing CAN-DOH segment.

I can confirm that QR uses the same married segment logic that CX uses on awards, so the availability MUST exist for the origin/destination pair, eg CAN/MUC and not CAN/DOH + DOH/MUC.

I was recently looking at QR seats for SIN/LHR for example and there's U4 on SIN/DOH and U4 on DOH/LHR, but nothing on SIN/LHR, which is another example of the above.

 

[hutch]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

You can never combine 2 single segments like that. Both QF and QR use Amadeus and Amadeus does not permit that to happen. You would've had a situation where the through-availability was there in the first place.

For example if your routing is CAN-X/DOH-MUC, if you sell in the CAN-DOH segment on its own, then search for DOH-MUC separately, Amadeus will return availability as if you searched CAN-MUC. What basically happens is, it takes the contents of the PNR and returns availability based on the PNR content so it will see the already existing CAN-DOH segment.

I can confirm that QR uses the same married segment logic that CX uses on awards, so the availability MUST exist for the origin/destination pair, eg CAN/MUC and not CAN/DOH + DOH/MUC.

I was recently looking at QR seats for SIN/LHR for example and there's U4 on SIN/DOH and U4 on DOH/LHR, but nothing on SIN/LHR, which is another example of the above.

I can only go off my experience... it is entirely possible that a LHR-JNB married segment existed, but I certainly didn't search that way. I then later switch to FRA-DOH, DOH-JNB and then again moved my FRA-DOH leg to an earlier departure, without adjusting the second leg. Again entirely possible that FRA-JNB, FRA-JNB married availability existed and hence the booking was allowed.

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I wonder if those more experienced than me can assist...I am trying to do some preliminary trials to get an itinerary sorted for a family trip next July 2017. 4 x Y (140,000 points x 4).
I understand I can't get seats more than 353 days in advance (331 days with AA) so I am going back to June just for playing around with the system.

My desired itinerary:
SYD - TLV
TLV - LHR
LHR - JFK
JFK - HNL
HNL - SYD.

Nothing too complicated there, and it meets all the rules for the OW award. I have already called up Qantas FF call centre to discuss (twice) and both consultants found it impossible to locate seats on the JFK - HNL for any dates onwards from April with AA, even with potential transit in LAX or elsewhere. The best they said was "Book all legs you can, then call us up each day and try again because availability changes daily".
I couldn't do it online either on the Qantas site, or on the BA site. [As an aside, one of the consultants said the website is better than their own internal booking software, it runs faster and shows the same availability anyway. Hmmm?]

Have others found JFK to HNL (or any other Pacific island) hard to book?
If it ends up being simply impossible to do this (seemingly simple) leg, what would others suggest? Possibly JFK to LAX, then pay for flights to HNL, then continue the award flights from HNL to SYD? Or just give 'em a ring every day until the seats become available?

I know the issue isn't the quantity of seats I'm after, as each time I try, both online and over the phone it is only with 1 seat.

On another secondary question, the SYD-TLV TLV-LHR is just for me. The wife & kids will be going SYD-LHR direct. Would this be best on 2 separate bookings or would you think the consultant can put us all on the one booking even though the routing is slightly different?

Cheers

 

[RAM]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I'm slowly being driven nuts. Why would Qantas staff have so much difficulty finding available QR award seats when its own website says they are available?

Solution:

1. Politely ask them their name, get them to spell it out so they get the picture that you are writing it down...
2. Take a screen shot of your PC/device (learn how - PC = <ctl> <print scrn> at same time.
3. Use a graphics editor like freeware 'paint.net' to edit out anything you do not want shown.
4. Ask to send it to them if they still cannot find it...
5. Express surprise when they suddenly can find them OR ask to speak with a supervisor.

 

[Cardinal]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Solution:

1. Politely ask them their name, get them to spell it out so they get the picture that you are writing it down...
2. Take a screen shot of your PC/device (learn how - PC = <ctl> <print scrn> at same time.
3. Use a graphics editor like freeware 'paint.net' to edit out anything you do not want shown.
4. Ask to send it to them if they still cannot find it...
5. Express surprise when they suddenly can find them OR ask to speak with a supervisor.

That's a possible solution but doesn't explain what's going on at the Qantas operator's end.

 

[RAM]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

That's a possible solution but doesn't explain what's going on at the Qantas operator's end.

Sure doesn't but at least helps them 'clear their mnd"!

 

[Wanderlust_tim]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi all,
I am still planning my upcoming trip and I was wondering. If I were to include two days in Shanghai would i be eligible for visa free access to Shanghai?

E.G. 26/8: CX360: HKG-PVG
29/8: AY58: PVG-HEL

Cheers everyone

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

As Agent 86 would say: "Missed it by that much...."

I have been putting together a 280K J Itinerary over about 6 months, using the "start & finish in Asia" technique to squeeze in 2 return trips to Europe on the one itinerary.
I was feeling pretty proud with myself that the itinerary calculated out to 34,984 miles in Great Circle Mapper (including the 1 surface sector).
But then the tears...
While I was getting my last 2 sectors booked through QFF, it turned out that the mile calculation method that they use measured the distance as 35,080 miles. A difference of 96 miles, or less than 0.3%. No amount of begging, pleading, whimpering, sobbing would make any difference. Computer said No!
So, as a result of the breach of the distance rule, the itinerary priced out a points difference of about an extra 500,000 points :shock:.
Fortunately I was able to salvage the situation by omitting one short domestic sector (and it's associated surface sector), which brought the miles total down by about 400. So then the itinerary was legal again, and my pulse rate & blood pressure were able to slowly return to normal after a little time and a lot of scotch.

So...Does anyone know of a better tool to use than GCM? i.e. one that exactly matches the Qantas/OneWorld tool?

TOOJ, you could try travelmath.com
You'd probably need to put in your itinerary to try it and compare the numbers it spits out to what QF came up with because I don't know if it's more accurate than GCM or not.

Thanks for the suggestion vetrade, but TravelMath gives an almost identical answer on my itinerary as GCM. Most legs were the same, a couple of legs were +/- 1 mile, and the biggest difference was 3 miles. All up, over my whole itinerary TravelMath gave an answer 2 miles more than GCM.

As another data point on the same issue...
I've been using the OneWorld FlightMap app today, idly pondering where our next OWCA adventure might take us, and I noticed that it also shows the point to point distances for each sector.
So I thought to myself: "This is the official OneWorld FlightMap, so no doubt it will show the 'correct' distances. And, even if its wrong, it should still be the official distance for OneWorld Award ticket milage calculations."
Wrong again...
When I added up all the sectors it showed a distance of only 24 miles more than GCM, and so still 72 miles less than the QFF booking system.

So, for my itinerary, I now have the following total milage calculations:
Great Circle Mapper:.........34,984
TravelMath:......................34,986
OneWorld FlightMap:.........35,008 (yes, I know that if I'd used this method in the first place I could have saved myself untold amounts of grief & (additional) grey hairs...)
QFF Booking System:........35,080

Incidentally, when I was doing the OneWorld FlightMap calculations, the single biggest individual sector difference was MEL-HKG. Great Circle Mapper shows it as 4,590 miles, and OneWorld FlightMap shows it as 4,611, a difference of 21 miles. While that's only 0.45% difference, if you're cutting it fine to squeeze into the 35,000 mile cap, it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back...

So the moral of the story is: As much as we'd like to think that distances between airports are well established, there still seems to be a small margin of fuzziness at the edges. So if you're in danger of hitting the 35,000 mile mark, I can only suggest that you leave at least 100 miles spare to allow for the variations.

Happy planning & flying
J

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I had a similar thing with my upcoming September RTW OW Award, something else changed and QR "took back" the FCO-DOH-SYD flights. Had to call and the same process was followed, eventually got the U seats back after a few days.

Trying not to touch the booking now to ensure we don't end up stranded in the EU...

I had a similar experience a few weeks ago.
I had booked a couple of QR sectors, but after a few days I noticed that they hadn't been ticketed. So I called in to QFF [and when i finally got through to a human...] to enquire, I was told that the bookings were stuck and were due to drop off the next day. The QFF rep told me [so it may or may not be true] that QR have recently introduced a requirement that full names (i.e. First Middle Last) as shown on the passport must accompany the booking request, otherwise it will be rejected.
It appears as if this explanation could be correct; I gave the QFF rep the extra name information, and the flights ticketed without any further issue.

 

[EestiTiger]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

OneWorld FlightMap:.........35,008 (yes, I know that if I'd used this method in the first place I could have saved myself untold amounts of grief & (additional) grey hairs...)
QFF Booking System:........35,080

Wonder if that is a typo in QF when they told you? It would make a lot of sense that the OW Flight Map was the source of truth!

 

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

QR have recently introduced a requirement that full names (i.e. First Middle Last) as shown on the passport must accompany the booking request, otherwise it will be rejected.It appears as if this explanation could be correct; I gave the QFF rep the extra name information, and the flights ticketed without any further issue.

Does the award involve US travel? If yes, then most likely the secure flight information was missing from your PNR (name, passport details etc.).

 

[Cardinal]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Does anyone know why reward seats appear to be available through the Qantas multi-city search but not with a direct search ?

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Does the award involve US travel? If yes, then most likely the secure flight information was missing from your PNR (name, passport details etc.).

No, no US travel at all. The QFF rep said that it was a new QR specific requirement to include Middle Name.

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Wonder if that is a typo in QF when they told you? It would make a lot of sense that the OW Flight Map was the source of truth!

Yes, I had that thought myself. But I don't think it was a typo from QFF; they were reading off the screen, and I was arguing the toss for quite a while... so I doubt if they were mis-reading.

 

[aussiel]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Does anyone know why reward seats appear to be available through the Qantas multi-city search but not with a direct search ?

Could be married segment control (e.g. CX). If you try booking it should fail if this is the case.

 

[snabbu]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi all,
I am still planning my upcoming trip and I was wondering. If I were to include two days in Shanghai would i be eligible for visa free access to Shanghai?

E.G. 26/8: CX360: HKG-PVG
29/8: AY58: PVG-HEL

Cheers everyone

If you are traveling on an AU passport my understanding is that you are quite rightly eligible for a 144hour TWOV.

Helpful and current thread of interest here.
China 24, 72, and 144 hour Transit Without Visa ("TWOV") rules master thread - FlyerTalk Forums

 

[Pablo]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Keen for others experiences here.

My confirmed QR SYD-DOH-BUD flights, which were ticketed, have dropped out of my book in after it went for reissue when I made some changes. QF are now telling me they can't get them back, so want to send me SYD-DXB-LHR-BUD. I'm not keen for this, partly because it's a lot longer, and also because I wanted to do the QR A380

what do you think my options are? QF admitted it was their fault, but can I stick to my guns and have them issue a paid fare for that leg?

 

[Daver6]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Keen for others experiences here.

My confirmed QR SYD-DOH-BUD flights, which were ticketed, have dropped out of my book in after it went for reissue when I made some changes. QF are now telling me they can't get them back, so want to send me SYD-DXB-LHR-BUD. I'm not keen for this, partly because it's a lot longer, and also because I wanted to do the QR A380

what do you think my options are? QF admitted it was their fault, but can I stick to my guns and have them issue a paid fare for that leg?

I'd be making it their problem to get you back on your original flight. How they achieve it should not be your problem.

I also presume LHR-BUD is going to be BA J which from what I'm told, is a bit of a joke. As long as there are paid J seats on your original flight, I can't see how QF can wiggle their way out of it.

 

[roomer]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Solution:

1. Politely ask them their name, get them to spell it out so they get the picture that you are writing it down...
2. Take a screen shot of your PC/device (learn how - PC = <ctl> <print scrn> at same time.
3. Use a graphics editor like freeware 'paint.net' to edit out anything you do not want shown.
4. Ask to send it to them if they still cannot find it...
5. Express surprise when they suddenly can find them OR ask to speak with a supervisor.

i asked if I could have an email address but was told that it would be a good idea but they didn't have one for that purpose

 

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Keen for others experiences here. My confirmed QR SYD-DOH-BUD flights, which were ticketed, have dropped out of my book in after it went for reissue when I made some changes. QF are now telling me they can't get them back, so want to send me SYD-DXB-LHR-BUD. I'm not keen for this, partly because it's a lot longer, and also because I wanted to do the QR A380what do you think my options are? QF admitted it was their fault, but can I stick to my guns and have them issue a paid fare for that leg?

Did you do the initial booking on the QF site, or over the phone? If you did the original booking over the phone, PM me your record locator (just the record locator on its own is sufficient), I might be able to give you further insight.