Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[landl]

As Rock said, to quote the RuleBook:
14.3.5 A Classic Flight Reward Itinerary must contain no more than one departure from the city or country of first departure on that Itinerary.

If you want to break up the itinerary, a useful strategy is to start in SE Asia (say a LCC to KUL), then onward to Europe, return to Oz, then over to US, then return to KUL. The itinerary stops there, and you LCC back to Oz.
You will need to keep an eye on the mileage though...

For a summary of the various rules, take a look at the wiki at the top of the page.

Thanks for that. I guess I was hoping the definition of "departure" was different from "transit".

 

[Ken1]

We are planning to fly SYD-AMS in May next year as the first segment of a 280K J award, and I've been checking flight releases each day for the last 3 weeks and I see that SYD-AMS is usually available in J for flights on Mon, Tue & Wed through QFF but none are released for the other days each week. The only combination of flights on Mon-Wed are CX110 departing SYD at 07:35 arriving at HKG at 15:20, connecting to CX271 departing HKG at 00:15, although they do seem to release flights on CX162 dep SYD at 10:15 in PE, but never J.

I've logged in to Asia Miles on the CX website and they seem to be releasing "Business Standard Awards" for their members every day. For example, when I looked today I saw for Sun 14 April 2019 CX162/CX271 and also CX110/CX271, and for Sat 13 April CX162/CX271 & CX100/CX271. CX100 departs SYD at 14:15 giving a 2hr15 connection time compared with 8hr55 for the flights available on QFF so they don't seem to be offering the better connections to QFF members. We don't mind spending time in the CX lounges so will be grateful for any J seats we can book, even with long connections.


I've also looked at LHR-SYD with BA for our return home at the end of the trip. We would prefer to use BA for coming home because we will get 2 x 32kg bags compared with 40kg with CX, even though the taxes etc are higher, since we always come home with more than we start with. We will actually fly from somewhere else in Europe, probably ZRH and connect through LHR to avoid the UK APD. BA are often releasing BA11/15 through QFF in J through QFF but not every day. When I log in to BAEC I see that they usually release 2 J seats each day on BA15 and they currently show as available for 8 & 9 April but these never seem to show up on QFF. When we did a 280K OWA in 2016 I was able to call up and QFF could see the BA15 flight and we booked it and added it to our OWA, even though it didn't show on the QFF site.

I want to be ready as our flights are released so tonight I called QFF to ask if they could see the CX J flights for 13 & 14 April that I can see on CX Asia Miles, and also the BA15 flights on 8 & 9 April that I can see on BAEC but they couldn't see any of these flights so it appears that they are not released to QFF. I am QFF Bronze and I wonder if these extra flights would be available to QFF Silver, Gold or Platinum members? I don't know if Bronze members have less availability for other One World airlines. Because we were able to book BA15 in 2016 I thought that this would have been available but things must have changed. Has anyone been able to book flights showing in CX or BA sites but not on QFF?

 

[Captain Halliday]

I'm in the planning stages of an award and I'm encountering errors on the QF website. Can anyone see an issue with this:

NRT-HNL stop
HNLxKIXxSYD-BNE stop
BNExMELxADLxHKG-HEL STOP
OSLxHEL-SIN

Including miles back to NRT GC Mapper says I'm 1500 under.
I'm one stop short of the maximum.
I'm well below the allowed number of transits.
The only think I can think of is that they're considering KIX to be in Tokyo for the city of first departure rule. The QF error appears when I try to add KIX.

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious because I've been working on it for hours. The itinerary cross checks fine on both BA & Awardnexus.

Can anyone spot something I'm missing?

EDIT: Within minutes of posting it dawned on me... can't depart twice from country of origin.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[jewles]

I'm in the planning stages of an award and I'm encountering errors on the QF website. Can anyone see an issue with this:

NRT-HNL stop
HNLxKIXxSYD-BNE stop
BNExMELxADLxHKG-HEL STOP
OSLxHEL-SIN

Including miles back to NRT GC Mapper says I'm 1500 under.
I'm one stop short of the maximum.
I'm well below the allowed number of transits.
The only think I can think of is that they're considering KIX to be in Tokyo for the city of first departure rule. The QF error appears when I try to add KIX.

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious because I've been working on it for hours. The itinerary cross checks fine on both BA & Awardnexus.

Can anyone spot something I'm missing?

EDIT: Within minutes of posting it dawned on me... can't depart twice from country of origin.

Back to the drawing board.

As soon as you return to the country you left from the award booking ends. If you are starting in Japan you can't have a stop or transit through there again.

Rule 14.3.5 A Classic Flight Reward Itinerary must contain no more than one departure from the city or country of first departure on that Itinerary.

 

[Captain Halliday]

After my memory lapse on the rules yesterday, I have now managed to book a two part trip for which I’ll position to SIN:

Sept:
SIN-NRT (JL)
NRT-HNL (JL)
HNLxKIXxSYD-BNE (JL, QF, QF)

Dec:
BNExSYDxPEK-HEL (QF, QF, AY)
Revenue far to CPH
CPHxHEL-SIN (AY, AY)

With a whopping 83 miles to spare.

Surprised by the taxes with so many QF sectors: SGD2,000 for 2A, 1C = ~AUD670 per person.

I was also surprised to get HNL with only 4 months to go and AU-HEL between Christmas and New Year.

 

[rock86]

After my memory lapse on the rules yesterday, I have now managed to book a two part trip for which I’ll position to SIN:

Sept:
SIN-NRT (JL)
NRT-HNL (JL)
HNLxKIXxSYD-BNE (JL, QF, QF)

Dec:
BNExSYDxPEK-HEL (QF, QF, AY)
Revenue far to CPH
CPHxHEL-SIN (AY, AY)

With a whopping 83 miles to spare.

Surprised by the taxes with so many QF sectors: SGD2,000 for 2A, 1C = ~AUD670 per person.

I was also surprised to get HNL with only 4 months to go and AU-HEL between Christmas and New Year.

Your QF fares are pretty all domestic apart from one but aren't they? The domestic fares don't cost bugger all, AY would be costing you more then QF in that OWE I reckon.

 

[ellen10]

After my memory lapse on the rules yesterday, I have now managed to book a two part trip for which I’ll position to SIN:

Sept:
SIN-NRT (JL)
NRT-HNL (JL)
HNLxKIXxSYD-BNE (JL, QF, QF)

Dec:
BNExSYDxPEK-HEL (QF, QF, AY)
Revenue far to CPH
CPHxHEL-SIN (AY, AY)

I was also surprised to get HNL with only 4 months to go and AU-HEL between Christmas and New Year.

Thats a great booking, do you have status? I am hoping to book for 2 of us later in the year for the following year. I don't know whether to wait until all flights are available or book as the seats are released. I am silver.

 

[Captain Halliday]

Thats a great booking, do you have status? I am hoping to book for 2 of us later in the year for the following year. I don't know whether to wait until all flights are available or book as the seats are released. I am silver.

I recently moved up to WP. But I don’t think that makes any difference to award availability, except in the occasional case of asking for a QF award seat being released.

I suspect I just got lucky as I only started scoping this one out about ten days ago.

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

—Snip —
I don't know whether to wait until all flights are available or book as the seats are released. I am silver.

I think the general consensus is that you should book as soon as seats are released and pay the change fee (6,000 points) each time. If you wait until you can see everything you want, then you run the (very large) risk of the earlier flights evaporating...

 

[Captain Halliday]

I think the general consensus is that you should book as soon as seats are released and pay the change fee (6,000 points) each time. If you wait until you can see everything you want, then you run the (very large) risk of the earlier flights evaporating...

While I was lucky to get my itinerary at ~150 days out, it did take all weekend and several attempts.

On Friday night I had it ready to go and while waiting for Mrs H to agree, the preferred HNL dates disappeared.

Then on Saturday I had a new plan with a CX ADL-HKG sector. Mrs H then wanted to add CPH and once I’d found CPH flights the CX option had gone.

So the itinerary I posted above was my third attempt.

I agree with @There’sOnlyOneJimmy that you should take what you can get when available and be flexible.

 

[ellen10]

Thank you for your comments and suggestions. I tried my preferred dummy itinerary late last year and was surprised that it gelled. But my dates will be different a little earlier and I fear harder to get (early September). I will need two J seats to Europe departing from Aus, preferably via Sydney. So I am thinking that maybe going via Helsinki on AY will be easier, but I will of course look at QF as they release their seats earlier? I think? So everytime I add a sector I pay 6000 points x 2 each time? Hmm could become costly!

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

So everytime I add a sector I pay 6000 points x 2 each time? Hmm could become costly!

Yes, but...
1. Rather than booking sector by sector, I try to book in groups of sectors if there are a few with similar booking windows;
2. The 6,000 point fee covers ANY changes that you make during the one phone call. I have once rung up to change an intinerary with 8 existing booked sectors by cancelling 7 of them and adding 9 new ones - all for the one 6,000 point fee;
3. It’s not the cost of the 6,000 fee that you need to be concerned about... it’s the size of the hole that forms in your soul while you try to get through to the Call Centre...

 

[ellen10]

Yes, but...
1. Rather than booking sector by sector, I try to book in groups of sectors if there are a few with similar booking windows;
2. The 6,000 point fee covers ANY changes that you make during the one phone call. I have once rung up to change an intinerary with 8 existing booked sectors by cancelling 7 of them and adding 9 new ones - all for the one 6,000 point fee;
3. It’s not the cost of the 6,000 fee that you need to be concerned about... it’s the size of the hole that forms in your soul while you try to get through to the Call Centre...

Ok thanks for that advice. I didn't realise that. I think my first objective will be getting out of Aus on our preferred dates. Yes those hold phone calls are soul destroying sometimes!

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

- snip -
I think my first objective will be getting out of Aus on our preferred dates.
- snip -

Another tactic to consider: take a discount fare on a LCC to S-E Asia, and then start your OW itinerary from there.
Three potential benefits of this method (and there may be others...):
1. Often there is more availability & flexibility of award seats from non-Australian ports;
2. Often the Fuel Fees & Taxes are lower (often to the extent of saving you more than the cost of the discounted LCC fare); and
3. Often the mileage saved will give you enough leeway to add a second leg to the itinerary.

By which I mean as an example:

Paid LCC SYD-KUL

OW Award begins
First Leg -
KUL-DOH-MXP Stop
MXP-DOH-SYD Stop

Second Leg -
SYD-HKG-NRT Stop
NRT-PEK Stop
PEK-HKG Stop
HKG-KUL
OW Award ends

Paid LCC KUL-SYD

[NB: I’ve just made up this itinerary for illustration purposes...]

 

[geoffshaw]

I just changed MEL-SYD-LAX (QF-AA) to MEL-LAX on QF and got a $78 refund. I'm convinced they make the taxes up as they go.

 

[leer30]

In the planning stages for our first 280k booking.
Can you have a stopover in a city (ie more than 24 hours)
then have two tranfers (ie. less than 24 hours) through that same city (from the below quoted rule it seems you can, or does the stopover reduce your transit allowance to only 1?

• up to five free Stopovers are permitted;
• additional Stopovers are not permitted;
• only one Stopover is permitted in any one city in the Itinerary; and
• only two Transfers may be taken at any one city in the Itinerary.

 

[geoffshaw]

In the planning stages for our first 280k booking.
Can you have a stopover in a city (ie more than 24 hours)
then have two tranfers (ie. less than 24 hours) through that same city (from the below quoted rule it seems you can, or does the stopover reduce your transit allowance to only 1?

Yes you can, I'm doing that in my booking.

 

[soh]

I'm part way through a J booking and will be making some initial changes today. Tried the webchat last night and the additional fees and charges for my proposed changes seemed a little high. I don't have sufficient QF points to make a dummy booking so could someone run the numbers for me please? I have checked ITA matrix and have a rough idea what it should be but would really appreciate some confirmation.

Current booking (2 adults and 1 child in J) - $943 total for 3.

SYD-HKG (CX) x
HKG-LAX (CX) x
SFO-HND (JL) x
NRT-MEL (JL) x

Wish to remove SYD-HKGxLAX and change to:

SFO-HND (JL) x
NRT-MEL-SYD (JL-QF) x
SYD-ADL-HKG (QF-CX)x
HKG-LGW (CX) x

QF are looking for an additional $1014 so bringing it close to $2k.

 

[rock86]

I'm part way through a J booking and will be making some initial changes today. Tried the webchat last night and the additional fees and charges for my proposed changes seemed a little high. I don't have sufficient QF points to make a dummy booking so could someone run the numbers for me please? I have checked ITA matrix and have a rough idea what it should be but would really appreciate some confirmation.

Current booking (2 adults and 1 child in J) - $943 total for 3.

SYD-HKG (CX) x
HKG-LAX (CX) x
SFO-HND (JL) x
NRT-MEL (JL) x

Wish to remove SYD-HKGxLAX and change to:

SFO-HND (JL) x
NRT-MEL-SYD (JL-QF) x
SYD-ADL-HKG (QF-CX)x
HKG-LGW (CX) x

QF are looking for an additional $1014 so bringing it close to $2k.

It looks as though you are changing your first flight from departing the US now?

If so, that will increase taxes a fair bit on your QF legs as they charge a much higher surcharge (don't know why) on their flights from travel originating from the US.

 

[madrooster]

QF are looking for an additional $1014 so bringing it close to $2k.

Your entire ticket gets repriced as a US origin (that means none of the fuel fines listed in this thread's wiki apply). I can tell you JL and QF charge some quite steep fuel fines for originating in the US.