Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[rmcmahon]

Hi everyone,

I’m about to add the last flights to my itinerary (woohoo) and have a couple of questions about open jaws. Ive done some searching in the thread and the Qantas T&Cs but haven’t found anything conclusive.

Is it true you can only have two open jaws (surface segments)? I recall reading that here but can’t find anything in the T&Cs

If yes, does flying into and out of different airports in the same city count as one of the two open jaws (eg HND and NRT)?

I believe I have enough mileage and sectors but my plans *ideally* involve surface segments between YVR-SEA, MCO-MIA and HND-NRT. If that’s not possible i’ll try to rework things to fly into and out of Miami.

 

[QFFBNE]

After following this blog for over two years, and with check-in due for our One World Classic award (580,000 point) trip opening in 5 weeks, I thought it worthwhile giving a word of encouragement to those still in the planning stage.

Apologies if it’s a bit long-winded but I learned a lot from others going through their experiences on here and this might help someone else. With all the advice and help available on this site, plenty of patience and attention to detail, several thousand extra FF points to cover changes, some forward planning and a smidgin of luck it is possible to book that dream trip.

We started planning our trip over 18 months ago so we were ready to book on the day our first flights opened. This meant being online literally the minute they became available and having a series of alternatives available if our first choice flights/airline/itinerary wasn’t available.

Over the next 8 weeks or so I again went online the minute the subsequent flights opened, and using this method was able to secure 90% of our first choices. Where a first choice wasn’t available we went with our second choices intending to try and get our first choice over the months ahead. To be honest we would have been happy if we couldn’t make any changes but by checking the QANTAS site regularly (and in the end every day) we were able to get 9 out of 10 of our first preference airline. All Business class, all with preferred seating, all with the better carriers and all to fit our itinerary.

I start work early so first thing every morning at 6-ish I would check if any new award availability had opened up, and if so rang Qantas FF immediately to secure the seats. At this time of morning I never waited any longer than 5 minutes and was frequently through in under 1 minute. Qantas call staff were all fantastic and couldn’t do enough to help. We did have one hiccup (experienced by a few others) when already booked flights disappeared after some changes but this was picked up, fixed and re-ticketed within 30 minutes.

If you don’t get your first choice flights initially I strongly recommend booking your second or third choice and then just keep trying. For example our return trip was from Rome to Brisbane and the only Business class flights I could get meant an awkward 16-hour stopover in Hong Kong (FCO/DOH/HKG/BNE). I booked that as a safeguard but kept looking and as late as last week (only 10 weeks before check-in) was able to book a day later HKG/MEL/BNE alternative which allowed us two days and nights in Hong Kong, and better flight schedules for the trip.

The only flight I haven’t been able to change is San Francisco to New York, which a the moment is a redeye flight with a 90-minute layover in Chicago. I am still checking every morning for a direct day flight but it seems American Airlines are notorious for lack of award availabilty on this route.

We leave mid-September for 5 weeks and our final itinerary goes as follows:
BNE-SYD-SFO (Qantas)
SFO-CHG-LGD (AA)
JFK-LHR (BA)
LHR-FCO (BA)
FCO-DOH-HKG (QR)
HKG-MEL-BNE (Qantas)

Choosing the airlines and airports that we did It meant it certainly wasn’t cheap at around $4,200 in fees and charges and an extra 20,000 points all up but considering what we are getting we are not complaining. We have exactly the trip we wanted; round the world all in J (even managed Qsuites with Qatar), with premium carriers, where we wanted to go on the days and at the times we wanted, and could not be happier.

It can look tricky but with a little bit of preparation and perseverance its worth it.

 

[flyingchicken]

Guys I really appreciate the scheduling help I had waiting for QR flights to open up. But I'm not having the same luck with AA. Is there a specific time that AA flights open up (other than the regular 10am). I just need a J flight from USA through SYD on AA metal. I'm not ready to book yet - but I cannot find a SINGLE one throughout the next year. I'm practising so that when I get to the time of booking I know when to jump on them. Checking at 10am every day, late at night, early morning. Anyone have guidance re this issue? Or is AA US-AU flights a pure luck game these days? I've even got flexibility to go somewhere other than SYD, as long as I get back to AUS. Will go QF as a backup if I can find- but very keen to try out a diff carrier J.

Thanks very much

 

[motef]

Guys I really appreciate the scheduling help I had waiting for QR flights to open up. But I'm not having the same luck with AA. Is there a specific time that AA flights open up (other than the regular 10am). I just need a J flight from USA through SYD on AA metal. I'm not ready to book yet - but I cannot find a SINGLE one throughout the next year. I'm practising so that when I get to the time of booking I know when to jump on them. Checking at 10am every day, late at night, early morning. Anyone have guidance re this issue? Or is AA US-AU flights a pure luck game these days? I've even got flexibility to go somewhere other than SYD, as long as I get back to AUS. Will go QF as a backup if I can find- but very keen to try out a diff carrier J.

Thanks very much

Award availability from the US to Syd on QF or AA is almost non-existent

I would have a backup option in mind.

Have you looked at JAL?

 

[flapper]

Guys I really appreciate the scheduling help I had waiting for QR flights to open up. But I'm not having the same luck with AA. Is there a specific time that AA flights open up (other than the regular 10am). I just need a J flight from USA through SYD on AA metal. I'm not ready to book yet - but I cannot find a SINGLE one throughout the next year. I'm practising so that when I get to the time of booking I know when to jump on them. Checking at 10am every day, late at night, early morning. Anyone have guidance re this issue? Or is AA US-AU flights a pure luck game these days? I've even got flexibility to go somewhere other than SYD, as long as I get back to AUS. Will go QF as a backup if I can find- but very keen to try out a diff carrier J.

Thanks very much

AA seats are available 330 days out. I’ve been checking LAX to SYD regularly for a number of months and have not seen a single J seat in all that time. I know they sometimes release seats closer to departure but you can’t rely on that.
QF availability is extremely limited if you don’t have status. Try CX or JL I know it takes longer but they do release seats regularly.

 

[flyingchicken]

Thanks guys. Good to know I'm not going crazy then. Have seen the JAL options but crossing the ocean in that direction will bump my miles beyond the 35000

I might start having to get super creative with my options... or it will be 15hrs in Y for me

 

[11sjw]

Thanks guys. Good to know I'm not going crazy then. Have seen the JAL options but crossing the ocean in that direction will bump my miles beyond the 35000

I might start having to get super creative with my options... or it will be 15hrs in Y for me

Can you get yourself to say Singapore or Malaysia and get yourself home from there (separate 1 way points booking)?

 

[adenda]

Guys I really appreciate the scheduling help I had waiting for QR flights to open up. But I'm not having the same luck with AA. Is there a specific time that AA flights open up (other than the regular 10am). I just need a J flight from USA through SYD on AA metal. I'm not ready to book yet - but I cannot find a SINGLE one throughout the next year. I'm practising so that when I get to the time of booking I know when to jump on them. Checking at 10am every day, late at night, early morning. Anyone have guidance re this issue? Or is AA US-AU flights a pure luck game these days? I've even got flexibility to go somewhere other than SYD, as long as I get back to AUS. Will go QF as a backup if I can find- but very keen to try out a diff carrier J.

Thanks very much

I was in a similar boat trying to find J award seats from LIM to MIA in June 2020.
Scrolling through AA's useful monthly view showed exactly zero availability from February 2020 onwards - and very limited before. Given AA allows award booking effectively 331 days out (in Australia) I checked what time in Melbourne is midnight in Dallas-Fort Worth (AA's headquarters) and it's 3pm. After checking over a couple of days I was able to verify that new seats - Economy only - appear around 3 pm Melbourne time 331 days out. So I suggest checking then.
I suspect - can anyone confirm? - that AA severly rations business award availability and only starts to drip feed it as it gets closer to travel date.
I ended up booking in Economy to secure a flight but will keep an eye on availability over the next several months with a view to upgrading when/if J class becomes available.

 

[flychrisfly]

Hi everyone,

I’m about to add the last flights to my itinerary (woohoo) and have a couple of questions about open jaws. Ive done some searching in the thread and the Qantas T&Cs but haven’t found anything conclusive.

Is it true you can only have two open jaws (surface segments)? I recall reading that here but can’t find anything in the T&Cs

If yes, does flying into and out of different airports in the same city count as one of the two open jaws (eg HND and NRT)?

I believe I have enough mileage and sectors but my plans *ideally* involve surface segments between YVR-SEA, MCO-MIA and HND-NRT. If that’s not possible i’ll try to rework things to fly into and out of Miami.

There are no maximum number of surface sectors (note, what you have described are not 'open jaws') other than that they count towards the total sector count which is limited to 16.
I can't recall if transit between different airports in the same city is counted as a surface segment or not, but I think it is.

 

[madrooster]

I can't recall if transit between different airports in the same city is counted as a surface segment or not, but I think it is.

Yes, it is counted as part of the 16.

 

[flyingchicken]

Need help with horror situation.

Yesterday I spent over 5 HOURS in webchat trying to get a QR flight added to my booking - and it almost cost me the seats. The lady in the chat wanted to argue with me about availability when I could see it. Eventually, she magically found some availability and booked me the flight. But that was only after she argued with me for another hour about the OWA limit being 15000miles which is why we couldn't see availability.

Now I am trying to move up a pre-existing flight FCO-DOH to the day before, to ensure that the stop at DOH counts as a stopover (which I need it to). Everyone keeps telling me that there is no availability despite it being clearly bookable on the website. I'm not picky, I'm happy to take any of the planes there.

Some have agreed that I can make a singular booking of the flight, but I'm not able to add it to my existing one. When I brought up the issue that it could be a married segment they fobbed me off. The last call centre operator I was on the phone to moment ago was incredibly rude to me, and after 'going away to check' something for 20mins, HUNG UP on me after I asked for the justification. I knew he was there, he just went silent for a while, typed on his computer, and then hung up. After an immediate call back I'm now in another 30min queue.

If I am able to make the single booking both ways, then there needs to be a way for me to book both within this booking. How can they justify refusing to give me a ticket that is clearly there? Any help? I think I've gone past a total of 10 HOURS in SMS chat, online chat, and RUDE CS call centres.

Desperate. What magic words do I need to say to them to make them understand?

 

[Mactiho]

Hi All,

Have got lost reading all about these crazy itineraries over the past fortnight once I heard about the OneWorld Award. I want to start planning a trip for next June/July - will be just the economy RTW.

I have some long service leave landing that time, my only issue is the points required will not be accumulated until Feb. Is that cutting it too short to book the award flights? Dates and all that are not an issue, completely flexible there.

I was thinking something like the below, will be getting a cheap flight to DPS with Jetstar and doing the Japan leg sometime in Winter 2020, again not held down to certain dates. Trip to Dublin is to visit family.

dps-hkg-ber-dub-lgw-yyz-mia-lim-scl-mel-nrt-syd (34,600 miles)

Is this itinerary valid within the award structure? I know I'm pushing it with a 'second' holiday with Japan visit so any advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

 

[aikman]

dps-hkg-ber-dub-lgw-yyz-mia-lim-scl-mel-nrt-syd (34,600 miles)

Is this itinerary valid within the award structure? I know I'm pushing it with a 'second' holiday with Japan visit so any advice is greatly appreciated.

You will exceed 35,000 miles. Refer to terms and conditions rule 14.5.3.

 

[fastferret]

Hi All,

Have got lost reading all about these crazy itineraries over the past fortnight once I heard about the OneWorld Award. I want to start planning a trip for next June/July - will be just the economy RTW.

I have some long service leave landing that time, my only issue is the points required will not be accumulated until Feb. Is that cutting it too short to book the award flights? Dates and all that are not an issue, completely flexible there.

I was thinking something like the below, will be getting a cheap flight to DPS with Jetstar and doing the Japan leg sometime in Winter 2020, again not held down to certain dates. Trip to Dublin is to visit family.

dps-hkg-ber-dub-lgw-yyz-mia-lim-scl-mel-nrt-syd (34,600 miles)

Is this itinerary valid within the award structure? I know I'm pushing it with a 'second' holiday with Japan visit so any advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

You will need sufficient points for each booking you make. If you start with the first few flights and add others as they become available, you probably won't need the 140k initially, but will once the number of flights booked has reached the 140k points cap.

Note that you will need extra points for booking change fees every time you contact Qantas to add to your initial booking. 5k per person each time, plus there is another fee for economy changes. Also points needed for these award flights in business and first are increasing from 17 Sept. Not sure if economy changes.

Re your itinerary, you need to include miles for syd-dps at the end, even if you won't be booking and flying this leg.

 

[Mactiho]

You will exceed 35,000 miles. Refer to terms and conditions rule 14.5.3.

Thanks @aikman , I forgot to include the distance back to the origin - apologies!

 

[Mactiho]

You will need sufficient points for each booking you make. If you start with the first few flights and add others as they become available, you probably won't need the 140k initially, but will once the number of flights booked has reached the 140k points cap.

Note that you will need extra points for booking change fees every time you contact Qantas to add to your initial booking. 5k per person each time, plus there is another fee for economy changes. Also points needed for these award flights in business and first are increasing from 17 Sept. Not sure if economy changes.

Re your itinerary, you need to include miles for syd-dps at the end, even if you won't be booking and flying this leg.

Thanks, I read that economy points rate is not moving after 18th Sept, still at 132,400. Happy to remove the Japan leg at the end and will leave from Melbourne, forgot about the miles to origin rule and was just pushing it all the way to 35,000.

 

[exceladdict]

Need help with horror situation.

Yesterday I spent over 5 HOURS in webchat trying to get a QR flight added to my booking - and it almost cost me the seats. The lady in the chat wanted to argue with me about availability when I could see it. Eventually, she magically found some availability and booked me the flight. But that was only after she argued with me for another hour about the OWA limit being 15000miles which is why we couldn't see availability.

Now I am trying to move up a pre-existing flight FCO-DOH to the day before, to ensure that the stop at DOH counts as a stopover (which I need it to). Everyone keeps telling me that there is no availability despite it being clearly bookable on the website. I'm not picky, I'm happy to take any of the planes there.

Some have agreed that I can make a singular booking of the flight, but I'm not able to add it to my existing one. When I brought up the issue that it could be a married segment they fobbed me off. The last call centre operator I was on the phone to moment ago was incredibly rude to me, and after 'going away to check' something for 20mins, HUNG UP on me after I asked for the justification. I knew he was there, he just went silent for a while, typed on his computer, and then hung up. After an immediate call back I'm now in another 30min queue.

If I am able to make the single booking both ways, then there needs to be a way for me to book both within this booking. How can they justify refusing to give me a ticket that is clearly there? Any help? I think I've gone past a total of 10 HOURS in SMS chat, online chat, and RUDE CS call centres.

Desperate. What magic words do I need to say to them to make them understand?

Are the flights also visible on BA or another oneworld award search? It could be phantom availability on Qantas and they might be correct that the tickets don't exist.

I spent a large amount of time last week asking for Qantas (!?!) seats from the website that actually don't exist.

Hi All,

Have got lost reading all about these crazy itineraries over the past fortnight once I heard about the OneWorld Award. I want to start planning a trip for next June/July - will be just the economy RTW.

I have some long service leave landing that time, my only issue is the points required will not be accumulated until Feb. Is that cutting it too short to book the award flights? Dates and all that are not an issue, completely flexible there.

I was thinking something like the below, will be getting a cheap flight to DPS with Jetstar and doing the Japan leg sometime in Winter 2020, again not held down to certain dates. Trip to Dublin is to visit family.

dps-hkg-ber-dub-lgw-yyz-mia-lim-scl-mel-nrt-syd (34,600 miles)

Is this itinerary valid within the award structure? I know I'm pushing it with a 'second' holiday with Japan visit so any advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Why don't you fly NRT-DPS or NRT-HKG-DPS or NRT-HKG-KUL and then chuck another DPS-SYD Jetstar (or other) flight home on cash? Wouldn't want you to miss out on your Japan holiday now

 

[Mactiho]

Why don't you fly NRT-DPS or NRT-HKG-DPS or NRT-HKG-KUL and then chuck another DPS-SYD Jetstar (or other) flight home on cash? Wouldn't want you to miss out on your Japan holiday now

Now we are talking, didn't even think of that - silly me. Can I transit through HKG to DPS if I spent a few days there at the start of itinerary? Live in Melb so will book a Jetstar flight at the bookends of the trip.

Just put Berlin is as a placeholder but happy enough with anywhere in Central Europe really. Getting 34,346 for this trip assuming I book separate flights to DPS.

dps-hkg-ber-dub-lgw-yyz-mia-lim-eze-scl-mel-nrt-dps

 

[flyingchicken]

Are the flights also visible on BA or another oneworld award search? It could be phantom availability on Qantas and they might be correct that the tickets don't exist.

I spent a large amount of time last week asking for Qantas (!?!) seats from the website that actually don't exist.

Follow up after many more hours of chat.

I found myself a diamond in the rough - a CS operator who stuck with it and helped me to determine a way around the situation. Turns out it was a married-segment sort of situation, and that both flights had to be booked as one, rather than two separate. There was availability where I could see it, but a block was stopping me from getting both as I had already booked one in isolation. She was the only one who was willing to listen to me suggest this option, and try alternatives for me. Luckily it had been approx 24 hours since I'd first had the battle, and the next days flights had opened up. SO I moved my timeline up a day and booked them as a single flight (with a stopover). She was able to get it sorted and ticketed immediately without a fuss. She was so amazing that I asked if I could pass my gratitude onto her supervisor! Much more pleasant than the rude man whom I encountered early this morning at the call centre.

I think I've spent a solid 19-20 out of my last 24hrs directly in some form of chat with Qantas. It's a shame it took so long to find one person who was actually helpful...

Hang in there kids...

 

[exceladdict]

Follow up after many more hours of chat.

I found myself a diamond in the rough - a CS operator who stuck with it and helped me to determine a way around the situation. Turns out it was a married-segment sort of situation, and that both flights had to be booked as one, rather than two separate. There was availability where I could see it, but a block was stopping me from getting both as I had already booked one in isolation. She was the only one who was willing to listen to me suggest this option, and try alternatives for me. Luckily it had been approx 24 hours since I'd first had the battle, and the next days flights had opened up. SO I moved my timeline up a day and booked them as a single flight (with a stopover). She was able to get it sorted and ticketed immediately without a fuss. She was so amazing that I asked if I could pass my gratitude onto her supervisor! Much more pleasant than the rude man whom I encountered early this morning at the call centre.

I think I've spent a solid 19-20 out of my last 24hrs directly in some form of chat with Qantas. It's a shame it took so long to find one person who was actually helpful...

Hang in there kids...

If you got her name, I would write feedback on the qantas feedback page about her, explain the story, and suggest that the useful operator could please train the rest. It can't hurt to ask, and it's better for the rest of us!

ng, didn't even think of that - silly me. Can I transit through HKG to DPS if I spent a few days there at the start of itinerary? Live in Melb so will book a Jetstar flight at the bookends of the trip.

GCMap calls dps-hkg-ber-dub-lgw-yyz-mia-lim-eze-scl-mel-nrt-hkg-dps 34849 miles; so you might be ok, depending on what Qantas thinks of your mileage. I'd give it a shot chucking it into the booking engine to see if it permits it.

Also, yes. I believe you're allowed one stopover plus two transits in any given city.