Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[ozflier]

I’ve tried to get an answer on this by email from [email protected]. However, they have fobbed me of, suggesting that I " … send us a Text to 0477 726 827, call us on 13 13 13 or visit www.qantas.com to be connected to our Webchat team …"

As I'm after something in print, rather than verbal, this will mean text or webchat. Whereas over the past few weeks when looking for award availability on-line, I found the webchat pop-up to be quite annoying, but now it never shows up, just when I need it.

Not sure how the text feature works in reality but may have to try that.

Are you using a VPN?
The webchat box only works for Australian addresses.

 

[ozflier]

Ah ok. Glad it's not just me. What a farce.

Certain status levels on QFF will allow you to reserve BA seats for free - from memory , you need to be platinum and above.

 

[ozflier]

Just

Having this battle right now (over SMS). Trying to change:

bne-syd-hkg-amm-ams [stop] mad-ord-dca [stop] lga-phl-sea [stop] sea-hkg [stop] hkg-bne

to:

bne-syd-hkg-amm-ams [stop] mad-ord-dca [stop] ewr-clt-sea [stop] sea-hkg-kul [stop] sin-mel-bne

At 2AM I had a marvellous agent called Salina who did it all up, quoted the new taxes and added the new sectors to my booking, but then I realised I needed to check a date with my travelling companion so deferred final confirmation. Mistake!! In trying to finalise the changes now, I've been given the following reasons why this new itinerary won't work:

"We tried to booked the flight for you but the system did not allow us. They've provided that will reinstate your flight and if you wish to proceed with the booking you wanted. You have to booked it separately as the system detects that took many segment on your trip booking."

"Yes, the segment on your flight was too many that is why the system we're not able to price this for you. I apologise, as the previous agent a quoted for you use the manual quoting which is unable to do it when you made changes online. It should be exchange in the system to provide you the right points and tax quotes. I already raised this so that the agent will be getting coached by the supervisor."

"We are unable to add another flights to on your existing booking as the system will not allow as to process it due to having too many flights on it. If you wish, you can book these flights on a separate booking"

"We are unable to add this flights and I highly suggest to book it in a separate booking"

So four times denied. A am exhausted, close to tears and about to give up, especially now that some of the newly added flights are no longer showing up on the QF website. Is there a legitimate issue with my itinerary, or is it IB (MAD-ORD) that's buggering everything up?

Just be careful with the HKG-AMM sector as the RG flight actually stops at BKK - ie not non stop.
(Of course you may be going via Doha.)
But if the former , the extra distance will add to your mileage if you are going close to the limit.

 

[fresherbill]

Just be careful with the HKG-AMM sector as the RG flight actually stops at BKK - ie not non stop.
(Of course you may be going via Doha.)
But if the former , the extra distance will add to your mileage if you are going close to the limit.

Yeah turns out it was all good in the end. In the worst case scenario (counting BKK as a stop) we still ended up within the sector count and mileage limits and the changes were done without drama over the phone. 99% of it is getting an agent who knows what they're doing, and that's what saved me here.

 

[ozflier]

Yeah turns out it was all good in the end. In the worst case scenario (counting BKK as a stop) we still ended up within the sector count and mileage limits and the changes were done without drama over the phone. 99% of it is getting an agent who knows what they're doing, and that's what saved me here.

Good news.

 

[soarer]

Just got off the phone after speaking to an agent who insisted that the system calculating my one world classic award flights took me over the 35000 miles, and therefore could not cap the points at 280K for business class.
Schedule 1 ver 1.
------------------------
BNE-HKG, 3742
HKG-SFO(s/o), 6019
SFO-YUL(surface), 2206
YUL-PHL 342
PHL-FLL(s/o) 862
FLL-MIA(surface) 18
MIA-MVD 3878
MVD-GIG(s/o) 984
GIG-MAD 4387
MAD-NRT(s/o) 5828
NRT-BNE 3843
total: 32109 miles

I was told that the system automatically calculated that to be 37205 miles compared to 32109 from Great Circle Mapper(GCM). On asking for a breakdown of individual sectors,
one eg was BNE-HKG their calculation 4316 compared to 3742(calc by GCM)
Another eg. SFO-YUL surface segment, their calculation 5429 compared to 2206 (from GCM).
I probed more and she said the system calculates the distance from A to B not by the straight line distance but by the flight distance of flights getting from A to B. So if there was no direct flight between A and B then it just adds up all the miles racked up by all available connecting flights getting from A to B. One glaring example was FLL - MIA which is almost next to each other. Their calculation of over 1000 miles vs 18(from GCM).

I was then offered to remove YUL-PHL,PHL-FLL,MIA-MVD,MVD-GIG OR purchase the last leg(NRT-BNE) as a separate standalone fare which would bring me under the 35000miles and the cap at 280K points per person. I refused and said that I would reschedule flights myself.
I was told that they could not hold onto the flights for this long without ticketing and I replied that I will work overnight and call them back.

Working feverishly overnight to reduce the mileage, I changed Schedule 1 ver 1 to Schedule 1 Ver 2. Removed surface segment SFO-YUL by replacing YUL-PHL with SFO-DFW and PHL-FLL with DFW-FLL,effectively making SFO a s/o.

Schedule 1 ver 2.
------------------------
BNE-HKG, 3742
HKG-SFO(s/o), 6019
SFO-DFW 1273
DFW-FLL(s/o) 972
FLL-MIA(surface) 18
MIA-MVD 3878
MVD-GIG(s/o) 984
GIG-MAD 4387
MAD-NRT(s/o) 5828
NRT-BNE 3843
total: 29960 miles

Rang them up again(luckily reservations is 24hours and practically no queue at 4am).
Got them to make the changes and recalculate. This time their calculation 35660 miles vs 29960(from GCM as well as a points requirement of 439,200 points each person in my 2 person trip.
He did try to tell me that it was also because I had mixed class bus/prem/eco. I told him that it should not affect the calculations except that the points requirements would be decided by the highest class in the mix. While waiting for them to answer this call, I found the Qantas award conditions esp clause 14.5.5 which states "Surface Segments are permitted as part of oneworld Classic Flight Reward itineraries, but the distance between the disembarkation point and the next embarkation point will be included in the Reward Point zone calculation for that itinerary". I insisted that something is wrong with the mileage calculations done by the system, citing them the example of FLL-MIA and also reciting clause 14.5.5.
I suppose one could say that the distance calculation is not explicitly defined.

I think he could not resolve the issue at hand and asked me to ring back on Monday morning.

I did remind him that I have a deadline to pay for the tickets before 18 Sept before the points go up and now wait with fingers crossed.

Any comments would be welcome before I ring them back on Monday or even earlier as I dont want to lose the flights. (E & OE) Now to get some sleep. Good night.
1st flight 20May2020 and last flight 16June2020.

 

[pottsy]

I finally bookedmy OWA online last Thursday (12/9). After numerous SMS enquiries I am yet to receive my E-ticket. Last conversation was yesterday morning when Qantas actually rang me (of course I missed the call). I returned call by SMS and was told I hadn't included my birthdate (my bad) hence delay.
However, 'I still haven't received E-ticket'!
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as (like others on this forum) I am rather anxious largely due to my lack of faith in Qantas.

 

[aikman]

Just got off the phone after speaking to an agent who insisted that the system calculating my one world classic award flights took me over the 35000 miles, and therefore could not cap the points at 280K for business class.
Schedule 1 ver 1.
------------------------
BNE-HKG, 3742
HKG-SFO(s/o), 6019
SFO-YUL(surface), 2206
YUL-PHL 342
PHL-FLL(s/o) 862
FLL-MIA(surface) 18
MIA-MVD 3878
MVD-GIG(s/o) 984
GIG-MAD 4387
MAD-NRT(s/o) 5828
NRT-BNE 3843
total: 32109 miles

I was told that the system automatically calculated that to be 37205 miles compared to 32109 from Great Circle Mapper(GCM). On asking for a breakdown of individual sectors,
one eg was BNE-HKG their calculation 4316 compared to 3742(calc by GCM)
Another eg. SFO-YUL surface segment, their calculation 5429 compared to 2206 (from GCM).
I probed more and she said the system calculates the distance from A to B not by the straight line distance but by the flight distance of flights getting from A to B. So if there was no direct flight between A and B then it just adds up all the miles racked up by all available connecting flights getting from A to B. One glaring example was FLL - MIA which is almost next to each other. Their calculation of over 1000 miles vs 18(from GCM).

I was then offered to remove YUL-PHL,PHL-FLL,MIA-MVD,MVD-GIG OR purchase the last leg(NRT-BNE) as a separate standalone fare which would bring me under the 35000miles and the cap at 280K points per person. I refused and said that I would reschedule flights myself.
I was told that they could not hold onto the flights for this long without ticketing and I replied that I will work overnight and call them back.

Working feverishly overnight to reduce the mileage, I changed Schedule 1 ver 1 to Schedule 1 Ver 2. Removed surface segment SFO-YUL by replacing YUL-PHL with SFO-DFW and PHL-FLL with DFW-FLL,effectively making SFO a s/o.

Schedule 1 ver 2.
------------------------
BNE-HKG, 3742
HKG-SFO(s/o), 6019
SFO-DFW 1273
DFW-FLL(s/o) 972
FLL-MIA(surface) 18
MIA-MVD 3878
MVD-GIG(s/o) 984
GIG-MAD 4387
MAD-NRT(s/o) 5828
NRT-BNE 3843
total: 29960 miles

Rang them up again(luckily reservations is 24hours and practically no queue at 4am).
Got them to make the changes and recalculate. This time their calculation 35660 miles vs 29960(from GCM as well as a points requirement of 439,200 points each person in my 2 person trip.
He did try to tell me that it was also because I had mixed class bus/prem/eco. I told him that it should not affect the calculations except that the points requirements would be decided by the highest class in the mix. While waiting for them to answer this call, I found the Qantas award conditions esp clause 14.5.5 which states "Surface Segments are permitted as part of oneworld Classic Flight Reward itineraries, but the distance between the disembarkation point and the next embarkation point will be included in the Reward Point zone calculation for that itinerary". I insisted that something is wrong with the mileage calculations done by the system, citing them the example of FLL-MIA and also reciting clause 14.5.5.
I suppose one could say that the distance calculation is not explicitly defined.

I think he could not resolve the issue at hand and asked me to ring back on Monday morning.

I did remind him that I have a deadline to pay for the tickets before 18 Sept before the points go up and now wait with fingers crossed.

Any comments would be welcome before I ring them back on Monday or even earlier as I dont want to lose the flights. (E & OE) Now to get some sleep. Good night.
1st flight 20May2020 and last flight 16June2020.

Qantas is correct.

Use statute miles in gcmap.com and not nautical miles.

 

[Ktan89]

I finally bookedmy OWA online last Thursday (12/9). After numerous SMS enquiries I am yet to receive my E-ticket. Last conversation was yesterday morning when Qantas actually rang me (of course I missed the call). I returned call by SMS and was told I hadn't included my birthdate (my bad) hence delay.
However, 'I still haven't received E-ticket'!
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as (like others on this forum) I am rather anxious largely due to my lack of faith in Qantas.

Does your booking show up in your online Qantas account? If it does you should be fine and don't need it.
They sometimes have issues sending out pdf etickets, if you really want a copy call up and simply ask them to resend it. ask for word format if the pdf one still doesn't work.

 

[Ktan89]

Qantas is correct.

Yup, GCMap shows

35,609 mi

*edit*
On another note, ive got a route that is 34,991 but Qantas is not accepting it. Could it be GCMap error? Because if I reverse the flights between these two cities, the miles go up to 35,004.
Example:
Nrt-sea-yvr-hkg ends up making 34991
Nrt-yvr-sea-hkg ends up making 35004

Should Qantas allow me to do the first route because it's less than 35000 - is GCMap accurate to the miles?

 

[pottsy]

Does your booking show up in your online Qantas account? If it does you should be fine and don't need it.
They sometimes have issues sending out pdf etickets, if you really want a copy call up and simply ask them to resend it. ask for word format if the pdf one still doesn't work.

Thanks very much. I thought so but have been hearing such horror stories of Qantas call centre, of late. (Think it is particularly bad atm due to upcoming points changes. You wouldn't believe it, email just arrived! )

 

[CaptainCurtis]

I'm needing to book a OWA for travel starting late September 2020, so flights haven't been released yet. If I making a booking now for August 2020, and then seek to change it once flights are released, will I be charged the extra points given that the Qantas changes will have gone through by then?

 

[Captain Halliday]

Yup, GCMap shows

35,609 mi

*edit*
On another note, ive got a route that is 34,991 but Qantas is not accepting it. Could it be GCMap error? Because if I reverse the flights between these two cities, the miles go up to 35,004.
Example:
Nrt-sea-yvr-hkg ends up making 34991
Nrt-yvr-sea-hkg ends up making 35004

Should Qantas allow me to do the first route because it's less than 35000 - is GCMap accurate to the miles?

GCMap should be used only as a guide. What matters is the mileage in the QF GDS.

My advice to people within about 500 miles of the 35,000 limit is to call QF and ask them to give you to total mileage for your preferred routing.

Any discussion with QF that involves “But GC Map says...” will be futile.

 

[cambriamarsh]

Are you using a VPN?
The webchat box only works for Australian addresses.

The txt chat does work outside Aust, I've just used it from NZ successfully

 

[cambriamarsh]

I have a J Oneworld Award coming up starting on 23 Sep 19 and hanging out for a late release CX AKL-HKG in J, W or even Y if need be to avoid a 7 hour layover and a 6.20am start on the MD's birthday. CX seems to release right up to the day before the flight so there is a chance we might be able to avoid the AKL-SYD-HKG leg and go AKL-HKG direct. However the change may not be available until after the 18th. I don't want to have the trip reprice to 318k points each if I make the change on the 18th or later.

My bush lawyer approach says the wording in the email notification, ie

"Reduction in Qantas Points and carrier charges for International Economy Classic Flight Rewards effective from 20 June 2019. Increase in the number of Qantas Points, and reduction in carrier charges, required for International premium cabin Classic Flight Rewards (excluding direct flights to and from New Zealand and select flights to and from the South Pacific) effective from 18 September 2019 . Increase in the number of Qantas Points required for Domestic Business Classic Flight Rewards effective from 18 September 2019. Increase in the number of Qantas Points required for Classic Upgrade Rewards will apply to all upgrade registrations made on and after 18 September 2019."

only applies to bookings made, not amended, from 18 September 2019.

Confirmation of whether that is correct may be found in how QF treated changes to Y awards booked before 19 June 2019 and changed afterward.

Can anyone provide information on whether the points and taxes on a Y international non-NZ/South Pacific booking made before 20 June 2019 and amended after that date were treated?

To start, I've made a change to our J 280k booking that only affected an economy leg and the taxes were repriced upward! That to me is persuasive but not conclusive given there are a couple of chunky Y legs in the booking (please don't ask) so, if it applied on existing bookings, I would have expected the taxes to go down. The more examples we have the more confidence we can have that 280k/420k bookings won't be repriced if amended.

 

[soarer]

GCMap should be used only as a guide. What matters is the mileage in the QF GDS.

My advice to people within about 500 miles of the 35,000 limit is to call QF and ask them to give you to total mileage for your preferred routing.

Any discussion with QF that involves “But GC Map says...” will be futile.

Definitely agree that GCMap should be used only as a guide. In my case, I have included tolerances in the GCMap calculations and maybe my tolerance allowed is not enough. So from now, should only aim to reach upto about 29000 miles with a tolerance of about 6000 miles.

When I spoke to the agent, I did not insist that my figures were more correct. I will only put in a surface sector where absolutely necessary.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I have a J Oneworld Award coming up starting on 23 Sep 19 and hanging out for a late release CX AKL-HKG in J, W or even Y if need be to avoid a 7 hour layover and a 6.20am start on the MD's birthday. CX seems to release right up to the day before the flight so there is a chance we might be able to avoid the AKL-SYD-HKG leg and go AKL-HKG direct. However the change may not be available until after the 18th. I don't want to have the trip reprice to 318k points each if I make the change on the 18th or later.

My bush lawyer approach says the wording in the email notification, ie

"Reduction in Qantas Points and carrier charges for International Economy Classic Flight Rewards effective from 20 June 2019. Increase in the number of Qantas Points, and reduction in carrier charges, required for International premium cabin Classic Flight Rewards (excluding direct flights to and from New Zealand and select flights to and from the South Pacific) effective from 18 September 2019 . Increase in the number of Qantas Points required for Domestic Business Classic Flight Rewards effective from 18 September 2019. Increase in the number of Qantas Points required for Classic Upgrade Rewards will apply to all upgrade registrations made on and after 18 September 2019."

only applies to bookings made, not amended, from 18 September 2019.

Confirmation of whether that is correct may be found in how QF treated changes to Y awards booked before 19 June 2019 and changed afterward.

Can anyone provide information on whether the points and taxes on a Y international non-NZ/South Pacific booking made before 20 June 2019 and amended after that date were treated?

To start, I've made a change to our J 280k booking that only affected an economy leg and the taxes were repriced upward! That to me is persuasive but not conclusive given there are a couple of chunky Y legs in the booking (please don't ask) so, if it applied on existing bookings, I would have expected the taxes to go down. The more examples we have the more confidence we can have that 280k/420k bookings won't be repriced if amended.

I like your bush lawyer approach and I hope it’s correct.
However my spidey senses tell me it might not be in our favour.
Every change I have made to my upcoming 420K F Award has resulted in a refund of points and then them being deducted again along with an entirely new e-ticket number and booking date of the latest change made.
I am not convinced that QF will have their systems set up either automatically or manually to reprice at historical levels post 18th September.

 

[cambriamarsh]

I like your bush lawyer approach and I hope it’s correct.
However my spidey senses tell me it might not be in our favour.
Every change I have made to my upcoming 420K F Award has resulted in a refund of points and then them being deducted again along with an entirely new e-ticket number and booking date of the latest change made.
I am not convinced that QF will have their systems set up either automatically or manually to reprice at historical levels post 18th September.

Hi PF,

Good points. I agree QF may not have its systems sorted but that doesn't mean they can't make the appropriate adjustments manually as they do now for a number of cases, eg IB taxes.

I've made a few changes to our booking and while the ticket number may have changed the PNR booking reference has not changed. It may be that the system cannot change a set of flights without "cancelling" and "reissuing" as a workaround of some sort. I didn't see a reduction in taxes as a result of amending and cancelling some Y legs, the opposite in fact!

It would be good if others had some data points.

Btw how did you get a points refund? Did your changes reduce your trip under 420k points?

 

[Princess Fiona]

Hi PF,

Good points. I agree QF may not have its systems sorted but that doesn't mean they can't make the appropriate adjustments manually as they do now for a number of cases, eg IB taxes.

I've made a few changes to our booking and while the ticket number may have changed the PNR booking reference has not changed. It may be that the system cannot change a set of flights without "cancelling" and "reissuing" as a workaround of some sort. I didn't see a reduction in taxes as a result of amending and cancelling some Y legs, the opposite in fact!

It would be good if others had some data points.

Btw how did you get a points refund? Did your changes reduce your trip under 420k points?

It wasn’t a refund just that the 420K appeared on my account as a refund and then next line up 420K deduction for the Award.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

Do we have any consensus on whether we'll be re-priced at the higher rate after 17/09?