Oneworld Explorer ticketing

[oz_boater]

Well here is something interesting.

When I tried out the online booking tool for a RTW - it said the flight was over the limit of 34,000 miles for a bus / first flight, even though I was booking a DONE4.

As far as I can tell there is no such limit on a Oneworld Explorer.
So is this just another error in their tool, or is it an actual rule they have slipped in?

Looks like this is not a new problem, reference further up this thread (Sept 2023) to the same issue

 

[madrooster]

As far as I can tell there is no such limit on a Oneworld Explorer.
So is this just another error in their tool, or is it an actual rule they have slipped in?

The global explorer, which has a 34000 mile limit, is the same price as the oneworld explorer, which doesn't have a mileage limit.

Sometimes the underlying system throws up the global explorer fare by default instead of the oneworld explorer fare. I suspect this is the reason behind why the oneworld site occasionally but not always enforces a 34000 mile limit.

 

[serfty]

Sometimes the underlying system throws up the global explorer fare by default instead of the oneworld explorer fare. I suspect this is the reason behind why the oneworld site occasionally but not always enforces a 34000 mile limit.

And I just thought it was a limitation in the booking tool where the developers had decided to simply block all over that limit (all my attempts this year threw up this error).

 

[oz_boater]

The global explorer, which has a 34000 mile limit, is the same price as the oneworld explorer, which doesn't have a mileage limit.

Sometimes the underlying system throws up the global explorer fare by default instead of the oneworld explorer fare. I suspect this is the reason behind why the oneworld site occasionally but not always enforces a 34000 mile limit.

When I went over 34,000 miles it said I was no longer eligible for Global Explorer, but was eligible for Oneworld Explorer.

But then refused to price it because over 34,000 miles

 

[oz_boater]

I just had a conversation with work's travel agent about DONE4 ticketing in Oz.

I has asked about starting in Japan and they contacted QANTAS to ask about it, and am telling me QANTAS is telling them that if you issue the ticket in Oz, then it will use the Oz price.

"I have spoken with Qantas fares. We can issue a round world fare from Tokyo to finish in Tokyo. However, the fare issued from another country can not under cut the fare out of Australia which is the point of sale.

It isn’t written specifically in the rules, but the fare would need to be raised to the Australian fare level, if the fare from Tokyo is undercutting the fare from Australia."

Which is currently more than twice the price in Japan ($14,900 vs $7,200).

This seems contrary to what I have read, so can anyone help me understand what you need to do to be able to use the Japanese price for fares starting in Japan?

 

[bam71]

That USED to be in the fare rules, but I don’t believe it is anymore. Can you book on the ONEWORLD site?

 

[serfty]

I have spoken with Qantas fares. We can issue a round world fare from Tokyo to finish in Tokyo. However, the fare issued from another country can not under cut the fare out of Australia which is the point of sale.

Your work travel agent is incorrect - as indicated by @bam71 they may be referring to an older version of the rules.

I currently have an 081- (Qantas) ticketed DONE4 ex Japan; it was issues 3 weeks ago. Base fare was ¥780400 (~AUD7200). The base fare for a DONE4 ex Australia is $14,986.

Full text of current rules are attached. There is no reference to country of sale.

 

[serfty]

I have attached a version of the rules from 2010. This has that purchasing country (except Canada) restriction in section, 15. Sales Restrictions. Here is that text:

15. SALES RESTRICTIONS

Spoiler: Other Restrictions

Tickets must be issued on the stock of AA / AY / BA / CX / IB / JL / KA / LA /
LP / MA / MX / QF / RJ / XL / 4M.
If a ticket includes travel to/from/via Cuba it may not also include flight segments for travel on
American Airlines/American Eagle including flights operated by Executive Air / American
Connection including flights operated by Chautauqua due to U.S. Government restrictions.
Any such ticket will not be honoured by AA and cannot be used to travel on AA.
-------------------------------------------------

When travel originates in a country for which a specific local currency fares is published and
the ticket is sold in another country, the fare will be that published for the country of origin
converted to the currency of the country of sale at the bank selling rate. The resultant fare
must not be lower than from the country of sale.
Exception: Not applicable for sales made and/or travel originating in Canada or when BOTH
travel originates and sales are made within the European Common Aviation Area
(ECAA)/Switzerland.

As indicated this clause no longer exist in the current rules.

 

[oz_boater]

I have attached a version of the rules from 2010. This has that purchasing country (except Canada) restriction in section, 15. Sales Restrictions. Here is that text:


As indicated this clause no longer exist in the current rules.

Thanks

The agent did indicate they had run QANTAS Fares specifically to ask (today) and that the below was their response

"It isn’t written specifically in the rules, but the fare would need to be raised to the Australian fare level, if the fare from Tokyo is undercutting the fare from Australia."

Post automatically merged: Jul 9, 2024

Your work travel agent is incorrect - as indicated by @bam71 they may be referring to an older version of the rules.

I currently have an 081- (Qantas) ticketed DONE4 ex Japan; it was issues 3 weeks ago. Base fare was ¥780400 (~AUD7200). The base fare for a DONE4 ex Australia is $14,986.

Full text of current rules are attached. There is no reference to country of sale.

Do you mind if I ask what path you took (Direct with QANTAS, TA, online tool, some other way) how you did that?

I am just looking for a reliable way to book such fares, and asked this agent as they have been quite helpful over the years.

 

[serfty]

Do you mind if I ask what path you took (Direct with QANTAS, TA, online tool, some other way) how you did that?

I used a travel agent - they charge up to $600 for such bookings. (In the past I have booked xONEx directly with Qantas but since COVID the expertise is not there.)

Your agent is wrong. From Australia you can make an ex Japan booking ticketed by Qantas online using the oneworld booking tool - it uses the Japan base fare.

RTW Flights: Round The World Airline Tickets - RTW

Book Round The World airline tickets. Search multi-city flights to hundreds of destinations worldwide from oneworld Alliance member airlines.

www.oneworld.com

A sample simple four segment itinerary showing base fare and +++ is attached. With the first segment being a Qantas marketed and operated flight it would generate an 081- ticket.

 

[Himeno]

I just had a conversation with work's travel agent about DONE4 ticketing in Oz.

I has asked about starting in Japan and they contacted QANTAS to ask about it, and am telling me QANTAS is telling them that if you issue the ticket in Oz, then it will use the Oz price.

"I have spoken with Qantas fares. We can issue a round world fare from Tokyo to finish in Tokyo. However, the fare issued from another country can not under cut the fare out of Australia which is the point of sale.

It isn’t written specifically in the rules, but the fare would need to be raised to the Australian fare level, if the fare from Tokyo is undercutting the fare from Australia."

Which is currently more than twice the price in Japan ($14,900 vs $7,200).

This seems contrary to what I have read, so can anyone help me understand what you need to do to be able to use the Japanese price for fares starting in Japan?

There was a rule that required oneworld tickets be priced at the higher of country of sale vs country of departure. A subrule that excepted Canada from that pricing rule was removed in 2012.
The remaining part of the rule that required the higher price be charged was removed in 2016.
The current pricing rule simply requires that the fare of the country of departure be converted to the currency of the country of sale at the current exchange rate at the time of booking.

Your travel agent (and whoever they spoke to at QF) is quoting a rule that hasn't existed for 8 years.

 

[Himeno]

This seems contrary to what I have read, so can anyone help me understand what you need to do to be able to use the Japanese price for fares starting in Japan?

When the Canada exception was removed (I had a couple of DONE3s booked via a travel agent in Canada when that rule was in place), I booked some DONE3s over email from CX Japan.
Prior to the current pricing rule starting in 2016, you weren't able to book xONE3s from AU has such fares were not possible out of AU, so it either wouldn't ticket when booked in Australia or it would price as an xONE4.

 

[Himeno]

Do you mind if I ask what path you took (Direct with QANTAS, TA, online tool, some other way) how you did that?

I am just looking for a reliable way to book such fares, and asked this agent as they have been quite helpful over the years.

I've been booking oneworld tickets yearly since 2006 (other then during covid when AU borders were closed)

The first few tickets were booked at the local Qantas Travel travel agency.
When they all got closed, I shifted to a local travel agent. This agent is considered one of the better agents in the area (within the flight center group...).
After a few years going through that agent, in order to get around the prior mentioned (old) pricing rules, I booked online via an agent in Canada (which required calling the AA RTW desk to set up the booking, then emailing the agent to take over the PNR and ticket), then with the CX Japan office.
After the rules change again to no longer require this jumping around for the cheaper fare, I went back to the prior local agent, but had some issues with linking tickets (I was booking DAS13s - circle asia and south west pacific - to connect to DONE3s in Japan) when oneworld changed their through check requirements and some airlines stopped checking through across different tickets. (the xASnn fares no longer exist ) That agent not being able to/not knowing how to put different tickets (for the same person) in the same PNR caused some issues when connecting between tickets, such as between the first/last DONE3 flight and the DAS13 or between extra flights mid trip and the next DONE3 sector.
Since then, I've been using an agent many people here know.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Since then, I've been using an agent many people here know.

You'ld be mad not to.

 

[brrmmm]

I just had a conversation with work's travel agent about DONE4 ticketing in Oz.

I has asked about starting in Japan and they contacted QANTAS to ask about it, and am telling me QANTAS is telling them that if you issue the ticket in Oz, then it will use the Oz price.

"I have spoken with Qantas fares. We can issue a round world fare from Tokyo to finish in Tokyo. However, the fare issued from another country can not under cut the fare out of Australia which is the point of sale.

It isn’t written specifically in the rules, but the fare would need to be raised to the Australian fare level, if the fare from Tokyo is undercutting the fare from Australia."

Which is currently more than twice the price in Japan ($14,900 vs $7,200).

This seems contrary to what I have read, so can anyone help me understand what you need to do to be able to use the Japanese price for fares starting in Japan?

As an old school QF fares and ticketing agent, I'll attempt to answer this for you. Of course QF are going to only issue this ticket in Oz, and yes they are correct in saying that the fare will reflect the AUD fare. However, with the advent of the internet, there'd be ways and means around that rule. Do you have access to a Japanese travel agent that could issue the ticket there in JPY? That would be my best attempt at skirting the fare rules.

 

[Himeno]

As an old school QF fares and ticketing agent, I'll attempt to answer this for you. Of course QF are going to only issue this ticket in Oz, and yes they are correct in saying that the fare will reflect the AUD fare. However, with the advent of the internet, there'd be ways and means around that rule. Do you have access to a Japanese travel agent that could issue the ticket there in JPY? That would be my best attempt at skirting the fare rules.

There is no rule that requires an xONEx fare sold in Australia be priced at the fare filed for departing from Australia when departing from somewhere other then Australia.
In fact the fare rules state otherwise.

You pay the fare for the country of departure, converted to the currency of the country of sale.
eg, for a trip departing from Tokyo, you pay the Japan fare with the total cost of the fare converted from JPY to AUD. Which for a DONE4 departing Japan is 780400JPY + tax = 7201AUD + tax.
You don't suddenly pay 14986AUD + tax for an ex-Japan fare simply because you a buying that ticket in Australia.

 

[pyffii]

For simplicity sake I’ve been using the AA RTW desk in Dallas for 10 plus years and it’s easy as especially using Skype…last week it took an hour to set up and the included cost (taxes) was $8100 AUD for a 15 sector DONE 4 exTokyo and I’m over the moon with the savings

 

[oz_boater]

There is no rule that requires an xONEx fare sold in Australia be priced at the fare filed for departing from Australia when departing from somewhere other then Australia.
In fact the fare rules state otherwise.

You pay the fare for the country of departure, converted to the currency of the country of sale.
eg, for a trip departing from Tokyo, you pay the Japan fare with the total cost of the fare converted from JPY to AUD. Which for a DONE4 departing Japan is 780400JPY + tax = 7201AUD + tax.
You don't suddenly pay 14986AUD + tax for an ex-Japan fare simply because you a buying that ticket in Australia.

Splendid news.

Now just to find someone who can do it. Clearly the agent I have been talking to is not the right one for the job.

From the recent comments in this thread I presume that - when I have an actual booking to make rather than just playing around - folks here will be able to help me get in touch with an agent who can handle the complexities of a xONEx.

While I am kicking though - Himeno, would you be so kind as to point me to the text in the current rules that say you pay the fare of the country of departure?

I have gone cross eyed reading them and don't see it.

Thanks for the feedback

 

[madrooster]

For simplicity sake I’ve been using the AA RTW desk in Dallas for 10 plus years

There is a catch though - you have to do an AA overwater segment and that one segment costs a few hundred easily in fuel fines.

QR, QF, AS and JL are overall the best ticketing carriers for these.

 

[oz_boater]

Another question if I may

Was playing around with the online tool and was trying to fly Singapore to Doha on Qatar.
For this test, on 13th July

Expert Flyer shows 3 Qatar Airways flights on that day
QR945 has D4,
QR942 has D9,
QR947 has D5

But the online tool shows no availability on Qatar Airways at all - just Malaysian or a mix of Malaysian / Sri Lankan. No direct flights, no Qatar.

Another bug in the tool? or does Qatar airlines not allow DONEx bookings on all routes?

There are some weasel words in the rules allowing them to limit capacity, wondering if this is the case here.