Our newest partnership revealed; American Express & Velocity Rewards

[deka2]

I believe that’s for spend with Virgin only.

1.5 Pts per $ generally.

I have two cards which give me 2.25 pts per $ spend with Qantas. 1.25 generally.

 

[pshepvic]

If you are a business which flies a lot of fully flex J employees around, this is pure Gold.

Basically what DJ are doing is selling fully flex J returns Syd/Lax for A$7,155 in lots of 2, 4, 6, 8, etc Paxs on V Australia or Delta. However as DJ do not currently offer SCs on Delta flights, this deal seems to be just for V Australia passengers who pay for their flights with the new Amex Velocity Platinum card.

If you book under a VA codeshare flight number operated by Delta though, you should get SCs.

So that means these companion fares should earn J rates, even on Delta, as it will have a VA flight number. Delta already offers Companion Fares through Amex on the Platinum Charge Card (at nearly 3x the annual fee), but on DL flight numbers not VA.

 

[adamonline]

There seems an unfortunate entry in the PDS for the "Complimentary Business Class Companion Fares"

No Velocity Points will be awarded for travel on these flights and flights will not be eligible for upgrades using Velocity Points.

This also appears in the section for the free domestic flight, which does make sense, but I doubt people spending $14,000 will be too happy about not getting any FF points. At least they don't mention the non accrual of status credits (so should we assume the flights do count for status if on VA).

 

[Noob]

platinum:

1.5 points for every dollar spent anywhere

3 points for every dollar spent on Virgin Group flights

Gold:

1.25 points for every dollar spent anywhere

2.5 points for every dollar spent on Virgin Group flights

 

[brett-au]

Reading the PDS for the card (I was more interested to know which domestic flights were allowed, and there were are few small omissions), its annoying that a flexible fare isn't really flexible under the scheme

After a Flight has been booked, no route changes or cancellations
are permitted. If you wish to change the time and/or date of a
booked Flight, contact American Express by calling 1300 366 105
from within Australia or +61 2 9271 8655 from overseas.

So the two big negatives here are you have to pay $27 to change your ticket (AMEX fee) and can only do it via the AMEX call centre during Sydney business hours.

I'm very unlikely to be in a position where I can make use of the deal, but surely this will upset some of the high flyers that will expect a fully-flexible fare to be just that.

On the plus side you do appear to get points for both tickets.

jso

 

[djfuzz]

Yep, I think I also fall into the 'nice that they did this, but it's not for me' bucket. My random selection of dates found Business Deal fares to be less than half of Business Flex fares. Also, while QF is not competitive all the time, a proper sale on QF, use of points/upgrading, or using OWpartners is still likely to be more attractive for me than two VA flex fares. A good idea, just not quite good enough to be enticing. On the flip side, hopefully this puts soe pressure on QF to raise their game; the reaction here seems positive in that regard, but past experience suggests that they just won't be bothered by this.

 

[pshepvic]

There seems an unfortunate entry in the PDS for the "Complimentary Business Class Companion Fares"

This also appears in the section for the free domestic flight, which does make sense, but I doubt people spending $14,000 will be too happy about not getting any FF points. At least they don't mention the non accrual of status credits (so should we assume the flights do count for status if on VA).

Interesting, I didn't realise that yesterday. When I've booked companion fares with other airlines though, it books into the same fare bucket as regular seats, and has always credited full points and SCs.

I wonder if this was the lawyers adding terms in to cover their backsides, or if it is accurate?

Velocity Rewards - can you confirm? Our feedback would be that we'd still like to earn at least SCs, but preferably points on these fares as well! In some cases the 2-for-1 fare would be close to some of the very cheap discount biz fares, which still earn points and SCs...

 

[samh004]

We did have some discussion on this. The answer is that they may not be changing name.

It's certainly looking that way, and I never had an issue with the name Velocity anyway.

Just rang Velocity to get a quote for one way HKG-SYD in October.

I was quoted 65,000 in Y, QF has for the same day 36,000 in Y (via Melb) or 72,000 in J.

Virgin still has some work to do on their Rewards program.

To be fair, Qantas could put you on their own aircraft, while Velocity needs to put you on a partner.

 

[MarcB]

Computer crashed while typing...seems others may have raised this already...but I'd typed it anyway!

The 2-4-1 biz class fares certainly look enticing...but I'd encourage people to ALWAYS read the fine print.

http://www.americanexpress.com/australia/campaigns/velocity/pdfs/pds_platbenefits.pdf - see from page 40.

The deal breakers for me:

After a Flight has been booked, no route changes or cancellations are permitted. If you wish to change the time and/or date of a booked Flight, contact American Express by calling 1300 366 105 from within Australia or +61 2 9271 8655 from overseas. Such changes are at V Australia’s discretion and at the time of making the change you must pay:​

(a) The standard V Australia Change Fee (as charged by V Australia) per person per ticket, which may change from time to time;​

(b) The difference between the ticketed fare value and the fare for the new booking plus applicable GST and new or increased, surcharges, fees and taxes payable;(c) Any other applicable fees plus applicable GST as charged by American Express. Currently the American Express re-issue fee is AUD27 including GST per booking (as at 15 June 2011).​

So not really fully flex in the sense you can't get a refund or change anything but the dates - plus, you have to pay change fees.

No Velocity Points will be awarded for travel on these flights and flights will not be eligible for upgrades using Velocity Points.​

Seems a bit rich given these aren't freebies - and if you are a frequent flyer, your points earn and burn are a big factor in airline choice.

 

[Noob]

Just rang Velocity to get a quote for one way HKG-SYD in October.

I was quoted 65,000 in Y, QF has for the same day 36,000 in Y (via Melb) or 72,000 in J.

Virgin still has some work to do on their Rewards program.

According to the Virgin and Qantas websites:

Virgin Australia - HKG-SYD = 30000 in Y, or, 60000 in J
Qantas - HKG-SYD = 30000 in Y, or, 60000 in J

Search any flight on either website the points needed to redeem are IDENTICAL for VIRGIN and QANTAS.

 

[pshepvic]

It seems that many people are trying to evaluate the Amex cards based on the FF program they are linked to. We need to remember that whilst you might still like QFF better at this point, Velocity is changing, and in 6 months time (we are allowed to tell you that the revamp will be by the end of the year), you might see things differently.

If we compare these cards to the equivalent Amex Qantas cards, which is the direct, fair comparison, things look a little better. For example, let's compare Amex Qantas Ultimate to Amex Velocity Platinum:

Annual Fee
Qantas Ultimate $450
Velocity Platinum $349

Points Accrual Rate
Qantas Ultimate 1.5 points/$, 2.5 points/$ on Qantas spend
Velocity Platinum 1.5 points/$, 3 points/$ on Virgin Australia spend

Companion Fares
Qantas Ultimate - No
Velocity Platinum - Yes

Free Annual Flight
Qantas Ultimate - Limited number of destinations, and must spend with QF first on the card to activate
Velocity Platinum - Wide range of destinations, must only spend on the card to activate (ie. no VA spend required)

Lounge Passes
Qantas Ultimate - No passes
Velocity Platinum - 2 single entry passes

I'd say that all adds up to better value.

So there are a couple of factors that will go into everyone's decision to take up a card:

1. QFF vs Velocity - maybe at this point for some people, they're still leaning towards QFF, so if that's the case then maybe this card is not for you ... yet. If that's the case, wait for the Velocity revamp and then re-evaluate. But you might not get your bonus 30k points then!

2. Amex QF card vs Amex Velocity Card - at this point, I think as a direct card comparison, the Amex Velocity Platinum card is winning.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

SYD to LAX on 15th October, returning 15th November - (randomly chosen dates)


QANTAS

2x BUSINESS SALE FARE (Inc. Taxes) = $18,307.00



VIRGIN AUSTRALIA with new VELOCITY/AMEX PLATINUM

2x BUSINESS FULL FARE FLEXIBLE (Inc. Taxes) = $14,309 (As one fare is free, only the taxes were counted for the second full fare ticket)


VIRGIN AUSTRALIA is still almost $4,000 CHEAPER, with the added bonus of TWO FULLY FLEXIBLE FARES.

As another poster has pointed out there are more airlines than just QF and virgin...for flights...and I would add for FF programs.

So for many of us just comparing to QF is meaningless.


However if you are going to compare just Virgin and QF...I believe aanother forumite mentioned that the Virgin Flights do not include FF points or Status Credits. If so, then for many both of those have value.


For others of us though...to gain our business you need a FF program not just better than QFF, but better or equal to the FF programs that we use as they are better than QFF.
:idea:.

This card is a step in the right direction for some. Burt for others like me it offers less value when combined with your FF than alternatives and so will not gain any of my custom as it is simply not competitive enough.

 

[deka2]

According to the Virgin and Qantas websites:

Virgin Australia - HKG-SYD = 30000 in Y, or, 60000 in J
Qantas - HKG-SYD = 30000 in Y, or, 60000 in J

Search any flight on either website the points needed to redeem are IDENTICAL for VIRGIN and QANTAS.

That's true, but the Virgin site also says

*Flights may be operated by the Virgin Australia group of airlines and or its airline partners. The Points price quoted may vary based on the route travelled, partner airline used or seat availability on certain flights.

If I was quoted the above figures I would have booked, but 65,000 for Y is almost double QF.

To be fair, Qantas could put you on their own aircraft, while Velocity needs to put you on a partner.

There was also a CX flight on the same day at 35,000 points.

 

[pshepvic]

As another poster has pointed out there are more airlines than just QF and virgin...for flights...and I would add for FF programs.

So for many of us just comparing to QF is meaningless.


However if you are going to compare just Virgin and QF...I believe aanother forumite mentioned that the Virgin Flights do not include FF points or Status Credits. If so, then for many both of those have value.


For others of us though...to gain our business you need a FF program not just better than QFF, but better or equal to the FF programs that we use as they are better than QFF.
:idea:.

This card is a step in the right direction for some. Burt for others like me it offers less value when combined with your FF than alternatives and so will not gain any of my custom as it is simply not competitive enough.

Are we comparing Frequent Flyer programs here, or credit cards???

 

[Keith009]

I still prefer the flexibility of the Platinum Charge card to an airline-specific card. In saying that, I am looking for a complement to AMEX and I was thinking of taking up Virgin Flyer to get a VISA that earns points at a decent earn rate and annual fee, not to mention the 2-4-1 flights up to 4 times a year which I feel offers more value to me than the 2-4-1 full fare J flight. Not that thrilled at the prospect of dealing with Citibank though, whom I believe are the issuers of Virgin Money credit cards.

But if I'm able to get my complimentary Platinum Reserve card (which I keep around only for the free flight anyway) replaced by the new Platinum Velocity card, I will seriously consider doing so.

edit: But then I'll lose the option of going trans tasman for the free flight redemption, hmm. I suppose the free flight is better used on far flung domestic locales anyway.

edit 2: Eh... 2 x I class fares (priced out at a slight over 13k) to the US on VA costs the same if not less than 1 x flexible J fare...

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Are we comparing Frequent Flyer programs here, or credit cards???

How can you do one without the other?


The way I look at things it is delivered benefit for cost expended.
Just examing points earnt is to me meaningless unless I also look at what I can get for those points.


Each of our needs are different. For myself that is currently long-haul J for holiday flights to places that I want to hoilday in...for a family of up to 5.

Iam an avid Point Runner and so I collect points by a wide variety of means and tend to many have a "supercharged' average earn rate when compared to an "average" person. I also use a variety of FF programs to optimise both points collected, and burn opportunities. Some points can only go to certain programs, and some FF programs have quirks that mean that certain flights are cheaper with them for particular routes. also a varity of Cc have different eran and surcharges. Various promos and bonus partners come and go and can result in optimised earn.



Into the equation also come factors such as Insurance, Lounge access, free flights, cost of card (fees waived or not) etc.


For others the desired benefits are different: ie may want upgreades, to reach ceratin status levels for perks etc. also their earn may include lots of flights. hotels etc. this will see them have different opinions on which combination, or combimnations, of CC and FF programs is best.



So with every transaction I do I consider credit card AND FF program/s. For flights to particular desitinations I will look at each FF program to see which is best as well.

 

[pshepvic]

How can you do one without the other?


The way I look at things it is delivered benefit for cost expended.
Just examing points earnt is to me meaningless unless I also look at what I can get for those points.


Each of our needs are different. For myself that is currently long-haul J for holiday flights to places that I want to hoilday in...for a family of up to 5.

Iam an avid Point Runner and so I collect points by a wide variety of means and tend to many have a "supercharged' average earn rate when compared to an "average" person. I also use a variety of FF programs to optimise both points collected, and burn opportunities. Some points can only go to certain programs, and some FF programs have quirks that mean that certain flights are cheaper with them for particular routes. also a varity of Cc have different eran and surcharges. Various promos and bonus partners come and go and can result in optimised earn.

Into the equation also come factors such as Insurance, Lounge access, free flights, cost of card (fees waived or not) etc.

For others the desired benefits are different: ie may want upgreades, to reach ceratin status levels for perks etc. also their earn may include lots of flights. hotels etc. this will see them have different opinions on which combination, or combimnations, of CC and FF programs is best.

So with every transaction I do I consider credit card AND FF program/s. For flights to particular desitinations I will look at each FF program to see which is best as well.

I absolutely agree that it is important for everyone to assess both FF programs and CC programs, and how well they work together.

In this case however, the product that has been launched is an AMEX credit card, with Velocity Branding on it. It is not, however, a feature of the Velocity program, but offers benefits for Velocity members. There have been a lot of comments though directed more at Velocity than the card itself.

I think in the first instance, it would be appropriate to look at the card for what it is worth (taking the FF programs out of the equation for just a moment) and the value that it delivers. Head to head I believe it offers more than the equivalent Qantas branded card.

That may not necessarily be a reason to take up the card, I agree, but just comparing cards only, it offers better value for money.

Then, we would look at how it all stacks up together with our frequent flyer program(s) of choice. But as we all know, Velocity is about to go through a complete revamp. So that's why I don't think we can really compare accurately how much value this card will deliver until the whole package can be assessed.

If however, someone is already in a position where they see Velocity as being a better program than QFF, then I think this card delivers great value.

For me - I'm currently sitting in both camps! I have QF WP and Velocity Gold, and I generally look to use my points for J class travel. My points balance with Velocity is quite a bit lower at the moment, so I see that this would be good value to boost that up to get me to enough for a couple of V Australia flights. And I'm looking forward to seeing what the revamped program brings at the end of the year, and then I'll make my final assessment as to how this combination of FF & CC programs stack up. I have a feeling though, that it's going to be good.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Personally, I don't find this news "earth shattering". But to be fair, I see benefit for many FFers.

My thoughts? If I'm interested, it'd be platinum as the free rtn flight pays the card fee.

Well firstly, the negatives.........

The insurance component to me is worthless. A must for a travel insurance policy for me, is a hire car excess component and the Amex doesn't do that, so another policy is required regardless (or pay the $35 per day or so excess reduction fees).

Amex is not really a surprise. They'll hop into bed with anyone to make them a little more palatable but reality to me is that they would have to rank close to the most despised CC crowds around, as assessed by the consumers and the retailers. I experienced them once.......and they'll have to offer something pretty good to make that road worth traveling again :evil:. Plus many retailers won't accept Amex .

2,4,1 J fares has been discussed already at length, and for me, if I were to buy J fares, I'd be shopping around hard and expect points and SCs.

2 passes to the lounge?? I already have unlimited.

Now, on the plus side........

30 000 points is a sweetner and worth real money (although is short lived).

3 points with Virgin spend and 1.5 for others is better than I get (much better) than with my Westpac Altitude Gold.

And last but not least.....the freebie return Saver fare between select cities which is also worth real money. Say about $378 (BNE-ADL-BNE) which is more than the annual card fee.

So the upshot for me is a very definite, maybe! I've previously vowed and declared NEVER to give another cent to Amex and that may well be the case now, but there is benefit there too.

I'll sleep on it (many nights over I'd say).

 

[NM]

Just rang Velocity to get a quote for one way HKG-SYD in October.

I was quoted 65,000 in Y, QF has for the same day 36,000 in Y (via Melb) or 72,000 in J.

And to keep some context, those same QF seats would cost 25,000 AA miles in economy and 35,000 AA miles in business class. And of course CX has far better award availability on that route with J awards available most days available for AAdvantage award redemptions. Mrs NM has just spent a long weekend in HK with me, costing 70,000 AA miles for her return business class award trip, with availability every day of the week when booking 2 weeks ahead.

So in my view, neither QFF or Velocity are good value redemptions on that route when compared to using AAdvantage.

 

[cove]

I think this could be worth a shot with the free flight,travel insurance,bonus points and other benefits.Amex are again showing leadership like they did with the Qantas Amex Ultimate card.Velocity is showing J seats for PER-SYD-PER for 73,400 points in August so that works!