Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[amaroo]

Windsor seems like the most decent guy in parliament and Amaroo comes out and slanders him. Too funny.

hahaha........LMAO

Windsor's hit list of achievements :-

Bleat on about Global Warming and the dire consequence that will be inflicted on all of us
Be the critical vote that saddles everyone with a new Carbon Tax
Waffle on about how miners should stay away from farm land

All good stuff.......

Then he goes & sells the family farm to a coal company

 

[drron]

hahaha........LMAO

Windsor's hit list of achievements :-

Bleat on about Global Warming and the dire consequence that will be inflicted on all of us
Be the critical vote that saddles everyone with a new Carbon Tax
Waffle on about how miners should stay away from farm land

All good stuff.......

Then he goes & sells the family farm to a coal company

And of course he was an Independent in another hung parliament in NSW.When Nick Greiner appointed Terry Metherell to an executive position in the public service this was referred to ICAC.Tony Windsor did not wait for a verdict he withdrew his support bringing down the Government.Subsequently ICAC reported there was no case to answer.
Now Julia Gillard appoints Peter Slipper to a high parliamentary position,accusations are made,matters referred to court but of course now we must wait for justice to take it's course.Consistency is not his forte.

 

[drron]

Facts? What facts have I got wrong?? I said it is a stupid idea to link specific revenue to specific expenditure unless that link can be locked in, which means I was calling the current government stupid. Did you actually read my post or just make assumptions? No - don't bother answering that.

BTW - where in the MRRT legislation does it link the revenue gained to any specific program? I would be shocked if it does but we are talking about politicians, after all.


Now is Tony Abbott a wall puncher??? I would say yes due to my knowledge of the "victim" and the fact that it was a well known story. But if you say that nice Tony Abbott would never do such a terrible thing then be happy in your ignorance. In the end it says more about you than Tony Abbott, but I don't know why he can't just put his hand up and say "I was young and stupid and had a brain-snap" - or would you no longer vote for him if he did? I thought not.

My "beliefs" (stupid concept - sounds like some religious war rather than the scientific discussion) on the topic of cliimate change are thus :- human activity is creating higher and higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere. This has a greenhouse effect and is contributing to global warming. The rate of warming is slowing down which is a big relief, but it is still uncertain what the long term effects will be of the current warming. But predictions - I have none because I am not a scientist. How about you?

Now about any further assumptions you will make about my "beliefs". Why don't you keep them to yourself and concentrate on justifying your own position.

None of your replies indicate you actually read or understood my first post.
So that makes us equal.
No point in replying further.

 

[Moody]

None of your replies indicate you actually read or understood my first post.
So that makes us equal.
No point in replying further.

I disagree with points 1 & 2 but you are right about 3 - it is like trying to knit fog.

 

[Alanslegal]

According to Wiki .... Whyalla still exists.

Whyalla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dfcatch]

I must say Skyring that any cabbie I have been with has not discussed or commented on politics to the extent you have. Once we have established which terminal or which hotel any talk is about the weather in Kabul or what's happening in the Punjab.
No politics

When in Melbourne I can't hear the cabbie talk over the radio blaring some Somali preacher

 

[browski]

hahaha........LMAO

Windsor's hit list of achievements :-

Bleat on about Global Warming and the dire consequence that will be inflicted on all of us
Be the critical vote that saddles everyone with a new Carbon Tax
Waffle on about how miners should stay away from farm land

All good stuff.......

Then he goes & sells the family farm to a coal company

Well Climate change does have dire consequences.
People are not saddled with a carbon tax. Big Polluters are. Putting a price on carbon is a great thing for Australia and Australians.
He doesn't say miners should stay away from farm land, just farm land where there can be serious impact on ground water.

Now the thing is Amaroo, is that Tony Windsor is a good man. Let's not make up stuff; let's just leave that to The Australian.

 

[dfcatch]

Well Climate change does have dire consequences.
People are not saddled with a carbon tax. Big Polluters are. Putting a price on carbon is a great thing for Australia and Australians.
He doesn't say miners should stay away from farm land, just farm land where there can be serious impact on ground water.

Now the thing is Amaroo, is that Tony Windsor is a good man. Let's not make up stuff; let's just leave that to The Australian.

Actually Browski - we should leave it to the good people of his electorate to decide if he's a "good man".

Unfortunately he'll probably take the coward's way out and not stand for re-election.

I have no problem with him siding with the ALP to form government.
I have no problem with any of his personal policy positions.

But I believe that as an elected representative - rule 101 is that electors are sacred. Given his history and that of his electorate - I believe he betrayed them ..... And IMHO is definitely not the trait of a "good man".

Of course YMMV

 

[browski]

Actually Browski - we should leave it to the good people of his electorate to decide if he's a "good man".

Unfortunately he'll probably take the coward's way out and not stand for re-election.

I have no problem with him siding with the ALP to form government.
I have no problem with any of his personal policy positions.

But I believe that as an elected representative - rule 101 is that electors are sacred. Given his history and that of his electorate - I believe he betrayed them ..... And IMHO is definitely not the trait of a "good man".

Of course YMMV

Wow, now he's a coward. Fair go, maybe you should reconsider and edit that post.
I don't think anyone would dispute that Tony Windsor has delivered more STUFF for his electorate than any other sitting member EVER.

Your line on betrayal is interesting. Let me show you the history of that electorate. The electorate could have voted Labor; they could have voted National. They voted overwhelmingly for him. He did the best thing for his electorate and nobody could argue that he delivered in spades.

 

[dfcatch]

Wow, now he's a coward. Fair go, maybe you should reconsider and edit that post.
I don't think anyone would dispute that Tony Windsor has delivered more STUFF for his electorate than any other sitting member EVER.

Your line on betrayal is interesting. Let me show you the history of that electorate. The electorate could have voted Labor; they could have voted National. They voted overwhelmingly for him. He did the best thing for his electorate and nobody could argue that he delivered in spades.

Yes he's a coward if he doesn't stand - period.

If he thinks he's honestly done the right thing by the people that voted for him - then let him hold himself accountable by re-standing. That would be what an honorable man would do.

He exploited the pork-barrel. In that regard - yes - he obtained funds for his electorate that probably would not have been obtained otherwise.

However he was/is more interested in playing kingmaker than representing those that elected him (naturally I can't prove this point if he doesn't restand).

Yes he was re-elected - as a high profile independent who was known as an ex-national by conservative leaning voters who didn't vote labor and wouldn't have voted for Windsor had they known he himself would do so. Find me a single reputable commentator who disagrees with this and I will happily edit and insert a "IMHO".

 

[777]

And of course he was an Independent in another hung parliament in NSW.When Nick Greiner appointed Terry Metherell to an executive position in the public service this was referred to ICAC.Tony Windsor did not wait for a verdict he withdrew his support bringing down the Government.Subsequently ICAC reported there was no case to answer.
Now Julia Gillard appoints Peter Slipper to a high parliamentary position,accusations are made,matters referred to court but of course now we must wait for justice to take it's course.Consistency is not his forte.

Actually he has been entirely consistent. It's your memory that is inconsistent. The two cases actually have almost eerie parallels

In the case of Greiner:
* Windsor was an independent with a share of the balance of power
* A serious allegation was made (of corruption)
* It was referred to the relevant body (ICAC)
* The body found against Greiner and made an initial finding that he behaved "contrary to known and recognised standards of honesty and integrity"
* Greiner was informed that the independents would support a no confidence motion against him on that basis
* Greiner resigned
* The independents continued to support the government in the form of the new Premier Fahey
* Greiner was able to sit in the parliament while his appeal was heard
* Greiner was ultimately acquitted on appeal but was unable to regain his position as Premier

In the case of Slipper
* Windsor was an independent with a share of the balance of power
* A serious allegation was made (of rorting and sexual harassment)
* It was referred to the relevant body (The courts and the federal police)
* Evidence emerged that made his office untenable
* Slipper was informed that the independents would support a no confidence motion against him on that basis unless he resigned
* Slipper resigned
* The case in question was thrown out of court!
* Slipper continued to sit in the parliament but was unable to regain his position as speaker
* A new charge was laid against Slipper that has not yet been heard

The ONLY difference i can see is that in NSW Windsor actually waited until the ICAC delivered an adverse finding against Greiner whereas Slipper didn't get that long. In both cases Windsor supported the individual in question standing aside due to serious allegations while continuing his support for the government.

 

[browski]

Yes he's a coward if he doesn't stand - period.

If he thinks he's honestly done the right thing by the people that voted for him - then let him hold himself accountable by re-standing. That would be what an honorable man would do.

He exploited the pork-barrel. In that regard - yes - he obtained funds for his electorate that probably would not have been obtained otherwise.

However he was/is more interested in playing kingmaker than representing those that elected him (naturally I can't prove this point if he doesn't restand).

Yes he was re-elected - as a high profile independent who was known as an ex-national by conservative leaning voters who didn't vote labor and wouldn't have voted for Windsor had they known he himself would do so. Find me a single reputable commentator who disagrees with this and I will happily edit and insert a "IMHO".

I can absolutely guarantee you that not one single reputable commentator will ever read your post.

 

[Pushka]

People voted for Windsor because they assumed he was representing them in a conservative electorate. He betrayed them. The election will tell the story.

 

[browski]

People voted for Windsor because they assumed he was representing them in a conservative electorate. He betrayed them. The election will tell the story.

The electorate TOLD the story. Voted him in overwhelmingly. They could have voted National since they were "conservative". But no, they wanted him. He betrayed nobody; that's the beauty and nature of being Independent.

 

[dfcatch]

The electorate TOLD the story. Voted him in overwhelmingly. They could have voted National since they were "conservative". But no, they wanted him. He betrayed nobody; that's the beauty and nature of being Independent.

Such a romantic notion

Found in the Fiction section of the library.... But romantic nonetheless.

 

[dfcatch]

I can absolutely guarantee you that not one single reputable commentator will ever read your post.

They don't have to. Just find me a reputable commentary on the matter that concludes differently.

Perhaps starting with the local newspapers in his electorate..??

 

[browski]

They don't have to. Just find me a reputable commentary on the matter that concludes differently.

Perhaps starting with the local newspapers in his electorate..??

No newspapers in New England, since Tony Windsor secured them the NBN.

 

[dfcatch]

No newspapers in New England, since Tony Windsor secured them the NBN.

Is there an App for that?

 

[eastwest101]

No newspapers in New England, since Tony Windsor secured them the NBN.

How many NBN connections in his electorate?

 

[amaroo]

Well Climate change does have dire consequences.
People are not saddled with a carbon tax. Big Polluters are. Putting a price on carbon is a great thing for Australia and Australians.
He doesn't say miners should stay away from farm land, just farm land where there can be serious impact on ground water.

Now the thing is Amaroo, is that Tony Windsor is a good man. Let's not make up stuff; let's just leave that to The Australian.

Regurgitating ALP mantra doesn't do anyone any good.....big polluters are the only one paying.....lol.

Believing this statement only proves that the spin doctors can confuse people!

If only it was true.......everything would be free!