Per-sin-adl

[NM]

Hey thanks guys.

I am 'nesting' in Perth. I will have to teach my travel agent about 'nesting', thereby improving my nestegg.

What about the nest of you

just be aware that the airlines do not look favourably on nesting tickets. In some cases, if the airline believes it has been done to avoid fare conditions such as minimum stay or specific (such as Saturday night stay, which is not common these days) conditions, they may cancel the bookings. Some agents will not sell nested fares if they know you are doing it.

Having said that, there can be legitimate reasons for doing it. For example, I recently had a Circle Asia fare and when I was part want through that trip I had to return home for a family emergency. So rather than cancel the Circle Asia fare, I booked a KUL-BNE-KUL fare, returned home for a week and then continued my Circle Asia fare. So technically the KUL-BNE-KUL was nested inside my Circle Asia.

 

[JohnK]

I am 'nesting' in Perth. I will have to teach my travel agent about 'nesting', thereby improving my nestegg.

Note that Australian travel agents do not generally have access to the cheaper airfares ex SIN. You will more than likely need to book airfares ex SIN direct from the airline websites or find a travel agent in SIN. I have not been able to find a travel agent in SIN that could beat the airfares available on the QF/BA websites.

 

[oz_mark]

just be aware that the airlines do not look favourably on nesting tickets. In some cases, if the airline believes it has been done to avoid fare conditions such as minimum stay or specific (such as Saturday night stay, which is not common these days) conditions, they may cancel the bookings. Some agents will not sell nested fares if they know you are doing it.

I am not sure that anyone is doing it to avoid fare conditions - the primary motivation for doing it is to save money.

 

[NM]

I am not sure that anyone is doing it to avoid fare conditions - the primary motivation for doing it is to save money.

The two are often intrinsically linked. A fare with a minimum stay condition may be considerably cheaper than a fare with no such condition. So by nesting, the traveller can meet the minimum stay condition without actually staying. So the driving force is to save money and one way this is done is by circumventing fare rules on cheaper, restricted fares.

And if using nesting as a means of purchasing a fare from a location where it is cheaper, then it can be argued that the purpose is to circumvent the fare rules relating to point of sale in order to save money.

 

[oz_mark]

The two are often intrinsically linked. A fare with a minimum stay condition may be considerably cheaper than a fare with no such condition. So by nesting, the traveller can meet the minimum stay condition without actually staying. So the driving force is to save money and one way this is done is by circumventing fare rules on cheaper, restricted fares.

And if using nesting as a means of purchasing a fare from a location where it is cheaper, then it can be argued that the purpose is to circumvent the fare rules relating to point of sale in order to save money.

The oft cited case here of QF PER-SIN-PER (with SIN-PER-SIN nested) sale fare has a minimum stay condition of Nil. There is not much chance of breaching the minimum stay conditions.

 

[NM]

The oft cited case here of QF PER-SIN-PER (with SIN-PER-SIN nested) sale fare has a minimum stay condition of Nil. There is not much chance of breaching the minimum stay conditions.

But the SIN-PER-SIN fare has a point-of-sale restriction, which can be considered a fare condition. And nesting that fare inside a PER-SIN-PER is being done in order to save money by circumventing the restriction that outbound travel is ex-SIN.

Minimum stays is just one example of a fare condition that can be circumvented by nesting. Routing restrictions such as the SIN-PER-SIN fare being cheaper than PER-SIN-PER is just another example.

 

[Evan]

You can always "nest" on different airlines
E

 

[v8Statesman]

I purchased an award ticket up to SIN, now I buy SIN-PER-SIN tickets. So no nesting involved.

 

[JohnK]

I purchased an award ticket up to SIN, now I buy SIN-PER-SIN tickets. So no nesting involved.

Same same but substitute SYD for PER.

 

[scotchonrocks]

I find it hard to believe an airline could cancel a booking that has been pre-paid if that booking was'nt part of a co-joined ticket. You could take them to the cleaners. Anyone have a specific example?

 

[Dave Noble]

I find it hard to believe an airline could cancel a booking that has been pre-paid if that booking was'nt part of a co-joined ticket. You could take them to the cleaners. Anyone have a specific example?

Which cleaners would you take them to? NM is correct about the nesting of tickets to circumvent fare rules and prices

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

Which cleaners would you take them to? NM is correct about the nesting of tickets to circumvent fare rules and prices

Having a look at various websites though, there seems little to nothing mentioned about this when purchasing tickets online. If these rules really exist then perhaps the airlines have dumbed down the rules they display on their websites a little too much.

If you take a PER-SIN-PER example, and book PER-SIN and the SIN-PER legs a year apart, and then while in SIN book a return SIN-PER-SIN (as seems to be how it is done), how does this circumvent rules?

 

[Dave Noble]

Having a look at various websites though, there seems little to nothing mentioned about this when purchasing tickets online. If these rules really exist then perhaps the airlines have dumbed down the rules they display on their websites a little too much.

If you take a PER-SIN-PER example, and book PER-SIN and the SIN-PER legs a year apart, and then while in SIN book a return SIN-PER-SIN (as seems to be how it is done), how does this circumvent rules?

That is not nesting

In your example you are booking a single ticket to SIN , then purchasing round trips SIN-PER-SIN and then buying a SIN-PER . That is fine

What is not permitted is to book a r/t PER-SIN-PER and then whilst at SIN do SIN-PER-SIN

Dave

 

[serfty]

It may or may not be permitted - it depends on the fare rules.

e.g. Fare rules for VLBB fare, MEL-SIN-MEL - purchased in MEL:

PERMITTED COMBINATIONS

UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED ADD-ONS COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITHIN AUSTRALIA. END-ON-END END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH DOMESTIC FARES. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS. FARES MUST BE SHOWN SEPARATELY ON THE TICKET. TRAVEL MUST BE VIA THE POINT OF COMBINATION. PROVIDED - COMBINATIONS ARE FOR CARRIER QF/BA OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS -TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS. A MAXIMUM OF TWO INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS PERMITTED./ROUND TRIPS -TO FORM CIRCLE TRIPS A MAXIMUM OF TWO INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS PERMITTED. OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS NOTE - WHEN FARES UNDER DIFFERENT RULES ARE COMBINED THE MOST RESTRICTIVE CONDITION WILL BE APPLIED TO THE ENTIRE FARE IN THE CASE OF ELIGIBILITY/ADVANCE RESERVATION/TICKETING - TTL/MINIMUM STAY/MAXIMUM STAY/STOPOVERS/COMBINATIONS/ACCOMPANIED TRAVEL/ TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS/SALES RESTRICTIONS/TICKET ENDORSEMENTS/TOUR CONDUCTOR AND AGENT DISCOUNTS. PROVIDED - COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE OF THE SAME FARE TYPE FOR CARRIER BA BETWEEN AUSTRALIA AND SOUTHEAST ASIA IN ANY RULE IN THIS TARIFF. COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE OF THE SAME FARE TYPE FOR CARRIER QF BETWEEN AUSTRALIA AND SOUTHEAST ASIA IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF.

 

[oz_mark]

That is not nesting

In your example you are booking a single ticket to SIN , then purchasing round trips SIN-PER-SIN and then buying a SIN-PER . That is fine

What is not permitted is to book a r/t PER-SIN-PER and then whilst at SIN do SIN-PER-SIN

Dave

Sorry, Wasn't clear. I was meaning buying PER-SIN-PER in one go, but a year apart.

 

[Dave Noble]

It may or may not be permitted - it depends on the fare rules.

e.g. Fare rules for VLBB fare, MEL-SIN-MEL - purchased in MEL:

Rules on end-on-end et al only relate to combining purchases at time of purchase; for QF , the cheap ex-SIN fares , for example, are only valid for issue in Singapore so would not be possible to purchase as part of original purchase

Dave

 

[Dave Noble]

Sorry, Wasn't clear. I was meaning buying PER-SIN-PER in one go, but a year apart.

Then that would be a nested ticket and not permitted. for it to be a legitimate use of tickets , would have to use PER-SIN-PER then purchase another PER-SIN-PER

Dave

 

[Evan]

Would get rather complicated to decide what is nested when you start with a few xONEx's or xAS13/17 etc. (since and xONEx just looks like one-way flights i would assume its ok ?)
Or do the rules for nesting really only apply to the example of PER-SIN we have been talking about.

Its something i have never really thought about but potentially i have violated the rules a number of times... then again nobody picked up on it so no harm done. It was not intentional simply a number of bookings with half completed flights, new bookings etc.

E

 

[wandering_fred]

I wonder what QF would say about putting the SIN-PER-SIN in the middle of a LONEx which has a stopover in SIN. Just to make it interesting - assume a LONE4 which includes the SWP.....:shock:

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[Evan]

I wonder what QF would say about putting the SIN-PER-SIN in the middle of a LONEx which has a stopover in SIN. Just to make it interesting - assume a LONE4 which includes the SWP.....:shock:

Happy wandering

Fred

I am thinking nothing because strictly speaking its not a nest but rather a side trip from a number of one-way flights. See my last post, i think your words make more sense than mine though.
E