Point Hacks' purchase of AFF

[NoName]

Completely agree with your point @NoName - there is a cost to acquire the points, which PH are deliberately downplaying, perhaps in an attempt to “sell” more credit card signups.

Here’s another example - the reward doesn’t cost “just $79”. It costs $79 plus the cost of acquiring a whole bunch of points.

View attachment 298876

This was the one I commented on. Elsewhere on the site they value KF miles at 1.8c per mile.

What's a point worth? Here are our latest valuations

Ever wondered how to value a point? Remember, they're not created equal! This guide provides you with our estimates by program.

www.pointhacks.com.au

Therefore, objectively the cost of this particular award is $1,683 worth of KF miles + $79 for a total cost of $1,762. Claiming a cost of $79 is totally dishonest IMO.

 

[CaptainCurtis]

This was the one I commented on. Elsewhere on the site they value KF miles at 1.8c per mile.

What's a point worth? Here are our latest valuations

Ever wondered how to value a point? Remember, they're not created equal! This guide provides you with our estimates by program.

www.pointhacks.com.au

Therefore, objectively the cost of this particular award is $1,683 worth of KF miles + $79 for a total cost of $1,762. Claiming a cost of $79 is totally dishonest IMO.

Couldn’t agree more, and love the idea of them using their own valuation for the points. But that headline probably wouldn’t sell as many credit cards.

 

[Daver6]

At the end of the day I think they'll land up doing themselves reputational damage with such click bait headlines. People will still realise that it's misleading and as a result give up on the site as a reliable and honest source of useful information.

 

[theoracle30]

Couldn’t agree more, and love the idea of them using their own valuation for the points.

Interesting idea! But playing devil's advocate, the valuations really are what you should be getting with redeeming points, not earning them.

Anyone earning points at 1.8c each or whatever, would be playing the game so wrongly!

I guess the problem is the cost to acquire points can be so different for everyone. Someone could pay $700 to earn 15,000 points through Qantas Wine, another could be funneling their expenses through Sniip at 1.5%. Another could be earning 0.5 points per dollar at the ATO, paying direct with Amex, because they have no idea.

We could previously get 75,000 points with no first year annual fee on a card signup, after spending $1,500 on stuff we'd need anyway... Is that a zero net cost to acquire points?

Given PH is also self-funding all these trip reports, I imagine they're also earning lots of points at a low cost themselves. They probably don't even know exactly how much it costs for them to acquire points, but I'd wager that it would be fairly insignificant.

I think the easiest solution is for them to include 'with points/miles' on ALL of their trip report headlines. Clearly some are still being missed (like the Noumea email, though I saw it on the website and social media).

Also make it obvious in the first paragraph afterwards how much much the reward costs in points and taxes.

 

[NoName]

The solution should be, using the $79 post as an example:

“$79 + 93,500 KF miles which we currently value at $1,683”

That way you include the value of the miles required to make the redemption. Whether they cost $0 or $1,000 to acquire doesn’t really matter, they are still worth $1,683 according to their own website.

 

[QF029]

I don't think they need to give a valuation of the points but they should list that points are required, and preferably the number, in the headline.

 

[Danger]

This was the one I commented on. Elsewhere on the site they value KF miles at 1.8c per mile.

What's a point worth? Here are our latest valuations

Ever wondered how to value a point? Remember, they're not created equal! This guide provides you with our estimates by program.

www.pointhacks.com.au

Therefore, objectively the cost of this particular award is $1,683 worth of KF miles + $79 for a total cost of $1,762. Claiming a cost of $79 is totally dishonest IMO.

To my mind, it's quintessential false advertising, plane (!) as day. I would think the ACCC would have a word or two to say.

 

[MARTINE]

To my mind, it's quintessential false advertising, plane (!) as day. I would think the ACCC would have a word or two to say.

Agreed
I would excuse an asterisk in the headline with disclaimer below
And… If PH points posturing is the typical content we can look forward to - holds little interest for me.
I go where I want to go and seek advice and share with other travellers. I have enough credit cards which are only relevant to me to buy the tickets and travel
I fully appreciate everyone is in a different position - but AFF provides choice as to how we reach our destinations via depth and breadth of travel experience. I find articles limited to credit card points churn paddling in the shallow end of the pool FOR ME - YMMV!

 

[CaptJCool]

When i first joined I had absolutely no idea it was privately owned.


the magnificent part

the impression I had was it was akin to “open source software” a public service, where a whole pile of people made contributions to create a great noble product. And annual subscriptions were more about those who could afford to financially support the “citizens academic” forum which had volunteer administrators - a real community-minded akin to a local sports club committee with a product like the free messenger newspaper (people in SA would know what I mean) delivered to the door or the Guardian model (voluntary donations) rather than the AFR or news.com model of paywall where you had to pay to access the content. when I joined work travel for which zero FF points were received and lifes mandatory spending commitments (divorce doesn’t help) well over 90% of income - so travel was on the smell of an oily rag and this is where the forum was invaluable eking out DSCs, JASA classic rewardS, 1st lounges all over the world....and being able to report back to others about the successes of those experiences.

is there a role for a unpaid Contributor model ?
the Canberra Times used to be free but I never read there anymore
the local paper had a firewall from day one so never read there but cafes were good for the paper copy
the mix of paid content and free content is pretty much right balanced here so the golden goose keeps laying golden eggs
Someone has to pay - the facebook free access / free to air TV sport model is paid for by advertisers - Ad blockers ?
change of business ownership inevitably sees subtle changes
beware the Concorde curse - 911 killed over 100 of their frequent flyers and thus it was all over
A contributor share scheme modelled on an employee shareholder scheme paying dividends isn’t usually the objective of new owners, but it could be novel. tax me more, I’ll vote for the other team, Tax me less I’ll vote for you

Contributing Value
when you stump up your own cash for credit card churn or gift cards or points clubs or gamification of tier levels you’re more likely to have buy-in, unlike many high fliers who when the time comes to “pay their own fares” vanish - they’re a bit like some professional services which generally won’t give out free advice (lawyers, accountants come to mind) and others where advice is freely gifted by novice and experienced contributors whose dividend wasn’t financial...JUST THE joy of giving!

 

[MattA]

I just got the latest PH email and the email subject line is:

" We flew Business Class to Nouméa for just $217 return. Here's how!"

It's definitely not a one off.

Just catching up on this thread. Glad I'm not the only one to find this clickbait-y headline style infuriating. Been noticing it a lot in PH stuff recently. So misleading (Oh, so you just got the points for free did you?)

Being able to fly J on points is already an incredible deal. You don't have to lie about the true cost.

 

[encryptededdy]

Being able to fly J on points is already an incredible deal. You don't have to lie about the true cost.

I agree. It's quite weird that this is required at all.

To be honest, if I didn't know anything about redeeming award flights, and I saw "Fly Singapore Airlines First Class for just $79", I'd just think it was a scam and ignore it. After all, that makes no sense that it'd be so cheap short of an error fare.

 

[CaptainCurtis]

More of the same.. $400 to Fiji in J


But there's now this hidden in the comments on Facebook:

Note: 'under $400' includes the cost of the first year annual fee on the card, plus the fees and taxes payable for a return Business Class reward from Sydney to Nadi (Fiji). Costs may vary from other origins. $1,500 minimum spend over three months required to earn the signup bonus on the card.

So they're now (somewhat discretely) adding in the value of the points. But the value is calculated by reference to a points offer on one specific card, a card they're undoubtedly earning referral/affiliate fees from. How transparent of them. Either quote the number of points (and allow readers to attribute value themselves), or use their own points valuation. To calculate the value by reference to one arbitrary card (that they're conveniently promoting the cough out of), is pretty misleading.

Doesn't bode well for the future of this site. Suspect that I'll receive a reprimand on here at some point for drawing attention to this, but I am okay with that possibility.

And yes, I have read the article and note that the points amounts are listed therein. My problem is entirely with the clickbaity and misleading nature of the headline/promotional material. I will keep calling them out for this, and encourage others to do the same.

 

[BCons]

Yes indeed, best wishes Clifford.. Its the nature of these businesses to aggregate under fewer names, the last 2 years have hardy been easy, and Tempus is always Fugit-ing.. Cant agree more with Jakeseven7 above that the community has turned from the romance side of travel (to give our enthusiasm a word) to how can we blag an upgrade, lounge entry or get somebody to do our points homework for us..

 

[RooFlyer]

Cant agree more with Jakeseven7 above that the community has turned from the romance side of travel (to give our enthusiasm a word) to how can we blag an upgrade, lounge entry or get somebody to do our points homework for us..

I joined AFF in ... gee, 10 years ago next month & after you ... and surely its always been about 'flying better for less' - including blagging upgrades, getting lounge entry when you might not otherwise get it and sharing knowledge about how to play points to the max advantage.

I don't think the community turned from the romance of travel so much as the romance of travel left the community (and everyone else)

 

[clifford]

Doesn't bode well for the future of this site. Suspect that I'll receive a reprimand on here at some point for drawing attention to this, but I am okay with that possibility.

I think you'll be OK.

However, I do think that the new ownership might be a breath of fresh air that could reinvigorate the forum.

 

[BCons]

I joined AFF in ... gee, 10 years ago next month & after you ... and surely its always been about 'flying better for less' - including blagging upgrades, getting lounge entry when you might not otherwise get it and sharing knowledge about how to play points to the max advantage.

I don't think the community turned from the romance of travel so much as the romance of travel left the community (and everyone else)

yeah, pay that… but there are a lot more questions asked than info provided these days. Was one I saw today: bloke progressively booked 3 different hotels in central Eu for dates next year, because each time he looked there was a better deal/room. So he’s holding options over 3 pubs, then finds the city will host an F1 on his dates, and his question/concern is how much money the hotels will make from his cancellations, and why/how can’t he get a slice of it. Sheesh..

 

[RooFlyer]

yeah, pay that… but there are a lot more questions asked than info provided these days. Was one I saw today: bloke progressively booked 3 different hotels in central Eu for dates next year, because each time he looked there was a better deal/room. So he’s holding options over 3 pubs, then finds the city will host an F1 on his dates, and his question/concern is how much money the hotels will make from his cancellations, and why/how can’t he get a slice of it. Sheesh..

I'd like to read that!

 

[BCons]

I'd like to read that!

here you go : names/dates changed to protect the guilty

…. recently booked J class flight for 2 to xx_xx next year using points arriving on the 21 #### so I quickly booked % nights in a reasonable hotel for a good rate of $&&& including breakfast. I then saw a better hotel, so I booked that for a similar rate, while keeping the original booking so that I could mull over it. I was then tempted to book an even better hotel because of a cash back deal with my credit card. A few weeks later, the GP dates for xx_xx_ were announced, and I now hv bookings for 3 hotels that are now charging $400 a night for the same rooms. I have to cancel 2 of the bookings of course, but can't help feel that I am just handing the hotels money on a plate... these are cancellations they would hope for.

wtf… this is the blagging/scamming sort of stuff thats become more evident in our forums than people asking/having info to share.

 

[drron]

Having joined over 20 years ago I already have seen quite a few changes. In those first few years you did get a lot more info on the ins and outs of the points game and special deals. the downside was that people would join and tell you they took a certain deal and then never return. As the use of the specials got higher they gradually disappeared. So the only way you found out about many was actually meeting another member. So those things had already disappeared before a lot of those commenting had joined.
The romance of travel hasn't been lost for me as there are many reports of peoples travel -both the actual travel and places visited. We certainly have gone to places we wouldn't have considered because of some of those reports.

It is still generally a happy place. Of course there will be changes and a lot of that is not because of new owners. Change is constant. I still plan on continuing on as usual.
And Clifford thanks for coming up with AFF and making it what it is. I suspect you have sometimes been less than pleased with things that I have said and done but unfortunately for the new owners at times I will be forthright with my opinions.

Sorry that you don't appear on the list for the Newcastle meeting so i could personally thank you and wish you happiness and good travelling for the future.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Having joined over 20 years ago I already have seen quite a few changes. In those first few years you did get a lot more info on the ins and outs of the points game and special deals. the downside was that people would join and tell you they took a certain deal and then never return. As the use of the specials got higher they gradually disappeared. So the only way you found out about many was actually meeting another member. So those things had already disappeared before a lot of those commenting had joined.
The romance of travel hasn't been lost for me as there are many reports of peoples travel -both the actual travel and places visited. We certainly have gone to places we wouldn't have considered because of some of those reports.

It is still generally a happy place. Of course there will be changes and a lot of that is not because of new owners. Change is constant. I still plan on continuing on as usual.
And Clifford thanks for coming up with AFF and making it what it is. I suspect you have sometimes been less than pleased with things that I have said and done but unfortunately for the new owners at times I will be forthright with my opinions.

Sorry that you don't appear on the list for the Newcastle meeting so i could personally thank you and wish you happiness and good travelling for the future.

Not on the sheet but I’m fairly certain he’s going !!!