Points earn/burn - VA v QF

[oz_mark]

I'm pretty sure i mentioned it.

I think the issue is with the AFF article, rather than your post.

The article makes no mention of the platinum requirement:

For some members Qantas takes the cake for best earn-potential. One member believes the 1,000 point minimum on domestic flights means the earn-rate for frequent Qantas travellers is more beneficial. However, another astute member points out that the only flights on Virgin which do not attract a minimum of a 1,000 point earn are those that cost below one hundred dollars and unfortunately those are few and far between!

The Australian Frequent Flyer Online Community - The Australian Frequent Flyer

 

[777]

Ahh, sorry, i didn't realise the quote came from the AFF article and not the thread! The original context is above and the article is incorrect if it doesn't specifically mention the tier bonus.

 

[777]

I am looking for a visa/mastercard which gives $1= 1VA point as the Qantas cards do. ...

I would like to hear any opinions on a card which gives $1 = 1point Velocity and any suggestions on what to do with my Diners points to best advantage

The Virgin Money Visa platinum card gives 1.25 Velocity points to the dollar and i believe it includes a handy sign on bonus at the moment. The Virgin Amex Platinum card gives 1.5 Velocity points to the dollar as well but is more expensive. Not sure what else is out there except the NAB Velocity cards - frankly the earning on them is pretty sub par.

 

[econgdon]

Hi all,

I've been trying to do a quick / broad comparison of points earn / burn rates for VA vs QF and was hoping others in here could help validate my conclusions.

Before I get stuck into the post: surprisingly, I couldn't find any AFF threads discussing this topic in detail since the latest round of changes to the Velocity program... maybe I missed something though, so please someone point me in the right direction if this is the case.


Anyway, that aside, here are my thoughts so far:

Earn:

QF are slightly better due to 1,000 point minimum on domestic flights, and possibly due to VA using origination-destination for point earn calculations (ignoring stopovers / multiple sectors - or is this just for SC earn?).

Burn:

Comparinga smattering of domestic and international routes (using a variety of VA's international partners), the points cost between VA and QF appears to be very similar, but VA taxes/surcharges appear to be much lower- therefore VA is better. I didn't try to compare availability, just cost.


What do others think? Agree / disagre with my (very broad) assessment?

This is a topic that has become dear to my heart. I had equal ff points in Q and VA at the time of the volcanic eruptions. Approximately 300,000 in each. Mainly from credit cards in Virgin and a combination in Qantas. I flew 5 times internationally economy ( not points) in as many months with Qantas and could not even get an upgrade ( for points) or over the bronze level as the status points seem hard to accumulate. I did manage to get an exit row from London to Bangkok once for points on Qantas whereas on British I got it on the way there for nothing by checking within 24 hours of departure. It also annoys me that I paid for 4 staff to go Qantas to the US and got no recognition at all for that. A status recognition would have been appreciated.

But when the ash crisis came I used Virgin after being stuck for a week in Hobart because both Qantas and Jetstar closed down.

I was impressed.

I now travel on my points using V premium exclusively if I can with pay and points.. I can get a flight for hardly any points and mainly, almost always, access to the lounge, free drinks etc on board and cancellation up to 24 hours after departure..The one gripe I have is that I do not get points for Velocity on the cash payment, so I use my Qantas credit card to pay and get Qantas points on the cash part, which dumbfounds me! Qantas charge if you cancel a business class ticket by the way. VA to not.

I must have used VA at least 30 times now and I got one of the new Amex cards which gave me a 30,000 point bonus plus 2 free flights plus 2 for one in business on Virgin.
I must say my one experience with Virgin Premium to LA was horrid. The A380 is hard to beat.

I do find it annoying that I look on the web and it says that all premium business in VA are taken and yet when I fly, find myself alone!!
The policy of allowing people to cancel after departure is lacking. If I had to travel regularly between a given set of destinations, I would keep a combination of flights permanently booked and just keep canceling them and renewing.. all for the cost of one ticket ad infinitum and always knowing I had a flight.. how foolish is VA to allow this.. there should be a no show charge and a service allowing standby.

I currently have about 125,000 ff points with Virgin and 425,000 with qantas. I have tried to use my Qantas ones but its virtually impossible to get a seat. I have used about 150,000 of my V ones but by specifically using any credit cards with V points have kept a reasonable balance.

I am looking for a visa/mastercard which gives $1= 1VA point as the Qantas cards do. If any one knows of one please let me know. I am not sure about their flight partners how the transfer would work as I have an account in the USA and could accumulate points on my US card and try booking V with those. I also have 300,000 Diners points which I am waiting for a bonus offer to transfer. If Virgin did a 1.5 for one I would take it up, but a V point os worth far less than a diners point in my opinion.

I even put $50,000 cash into my Amex to get the V points to make a large purchase recently, rather than use my Qantas plat NAB and Citibank plat cards which each have about that credit limit without input. I value V points far more for local travel which I do quite a lot of. The previous take flight on Citibank was great but of little value now. The flights on the new scheme are way too expensive.

I would like to hear any opinions on a card which gives $1 = 1point Velocity and any suggestions on what to do with my Diners points to best advantage

Edward Congdon

 

[JASON123]

The AMEX Velocity card (Platinum) gives 1.25 velocity points for each dollars spent anywhere. It gives 2.5 points for each dollar spent on Virgin !

 

[JASON123]

Also 30,000 points when you join.

This is a topic that has become dear to my heart. I had equal ff points in Q and VA at the time of the volcanic eruptions. Approximately 300,000 in each. Mainly from credit cards in Virgin and a combination in Qantas. I flew 5 times internationally economy ( not points) in as many months with Qantas and could not even get an upgrade ( for points) or over the bronze level as the status points seem hard to accumulate. I did manage to get an exit row from London to Bangkok once for points on Qantas whereas on British I got it on the way there for nothing by checking within 24 hours of departure. It also annoys me that I paid for 4 staff to go Qantas to the US and got no recognition at all for that. A status recognition would have been appreciated.

But when the ash crisis came I used Virgin after being stuck for a week in Hobart because both Qantas and Jetstar closed down.

I was impressed.

I now travel on my points using V premium exclusively if I can with pay and points.. I can get a flight for hardly any points and mainly, almost always, access to the lounge, free drinks etc on board and cancellation up to 24 hours after departure..The one gripe I have is that I do not get points for Velocity on the cash payment, so I use my Qantas credit card to pay and get Qantas points on the cash part, which dumbfounds me! Qantas charge if you cancel a business class ticket by the way. VA to not.

I must have used VA at least 30 times now and I got one of the new Amex cards which gave me a 30,000 point bonus plus 2 free flights plus 2 for one in business on Virgin.
I must say my one experience with Virgin Premium to LA was horrid. The A380 is hard to beat.

I do find it annoying that I look on the web and it says that all premium business in VA are taken and yet when I fly, find myself alone!!
The policy of allowing people to cancel after departure is lacking. If I had to travel regularly between a given set of destinations, I would keep a combination of flights permanently booked and just keep canceling them and renewing.. all for the cost of one ticket ad infinitum and always knowing I had a flight.. how foolish is VA to allow this.. there should be a no show charge and a service allowing standby.

I currently have about 125,000 ff points with Virgin and 425,000 with qantas. I have tried to use my Qantas ones but its virtually impossible to get a seat. I have used about 150,000 of my V ones but by specifically using any credit cards with V points have kept a reasonable balance.

I am looking for a visa/mastercard which gives $1= 1VA point as the Qantas cards do. If any one knows of one please let me know. I am not sure about their flight partners how the transfer would work as I have an account in the USA and could accumulate points on my US card and try booking V with those. I also have 300,000 Diners points which I am waiting for a bonus offer to transfer. If Virgin did a 1.5 for one I would take it up, but a V point os worth far less than a diners point in my opinion.

I even put $50,000 cash into my Amex to get the V points to make a large purchase recently, rather than use my Qantas plat NAB and Citibank plat cards which each have about that credit limit without input. I value V points far more for local travel which I do quite a lot of. The previous take flight on Citibank was great but of little value now. The flights on the new scheme are way too expensive.

I would like to hear any opinions on a card which gives $1 = 1point Velocity and any suggestions on what to do with my Diners points to best advantage

Edward Congdon

 

[econgdon]

Trouble is a lot of merchants do not accept Amex and if you are making a purchase of say $50,000 it is not worthwhile putting cash in your Amex. About the only one is Tax payments where the input is an allowable deduction and the charge is not excessive, and then it is marginal.

I think it is 3 points actually accrued with the new Amex Velocity card when spent with Virgin. Except if you read the small print when you use points + pay on the VA website where it says down the bottom of the page "velocity points will not be earned on the credit card portion of this payment"

Hence use your Qantas Amex card.. poor policy VA giving Qantas points for money spent with you !! lol

 

[wilco]

Actually - cpl of months ago - I was able to get a J seat opened up MEL-AKL as a classic for myself and that was about T-18......Although domestic may be different....

Did you have an existing booking and just needed a date or flight change??

EF often shows awards still available less than 24hrs prior to departure.

Any booking engine will always show availability..... But QF WILL NOT allow you to book a seat inside 24 hrs, unlike paid seats which I believe is 2 hrs (online/phone) and 45 minutes at an airport ticketing desk.

QF classics and ASAs cannot be booked under 24 hours prior to departure.

You're partially right. However, there is nothing stopping you from booking the sector you need for a date sometime in the future. Once ticketed, you date change it back to the flight you want, irrespective of wether its within 24hrs or not (subject to award availability of course). Ive done this many times in the past, and with SG status, didn't have to pay any change fees either. Im not sure if this fee waiver still exists, but either way, it can be done (for 3,500 points) if you need to travel urgently.

 

[Fruitcake]

I think it is 3 points actually accrued with the new Amex Velocity card when spent with Virgin. Except if you read the small print when you use points + pay on the VA website where it says down the bottom of the page "velocity points will not be earned on the credit card portion of this payment"

Hence use your Qantas Amex card.. poor policy VA giving Qantas points for money spent with you !! lol

That clause refers to points awarded by Virgin Australia itself for airfare purchases. You'd still earn points from your card provider for the transaction, what you're giving up by making a points+pay booking is the regular 5 pts / $1 earned on airfare purchases which is awarded by Virgin, not by your card provider.

 

[wafliron]

Hey, cool, my thread generated a homepage article. Do I win anything?? ;-)

On a slightly different earn potential side... i've found DJ points easier to earn on credit card purchases.

For example - All Westpac QFF credit cards give 0.5 points to the dollar. In comparison a Virgin Money Flyer or High Flyer card give you 1 or 1.25 points respectively.

For myself who charges alot of money to credit cards this is a massive difference. Over the past 18 months i've been using a WP QFF card and have only earnt 120k in points. In comparison i've had my VM HF card for approx 2 months and have already earn't approx 45k in points.

You're not exactly comparing apples-to-apples here though - just two "random" cards.

You should trade-in your Westpac card (or at least make your comparison against) for a, for example, CitiBusiness Gold card - 1.25 QF points per $1 spent for a ~$140 annual fee (plus a healthy sign-up bonus at the moment) and a points cap of 250,000 points / $200,000 per annum. Or, alternatively, the Woolworths Everyday Rewards QF card - 1 point per $1 spent with no points cap (and a ~$100? annual fee). Both of these are Visa/Master, and earn at much better rates than the Westpac card you're using in your comparison.

 

[ricee007]

VA don't have anything near as good as the OW RTW trip, amiright?

 

[JohnK]

And of course this is going to turn into another QF vs VA thread.

All our circumstances are different, flying habits are different and our desires are different.

For me Qantas cannot be beaten on the minimum points guarantee and even though the burn rate may not be fantastic they have much more variety of flight awards to choose.

The majority of my flights are $79 on VA and $89 on QF. Up until recently they were even cheaper. Irrespective of status on QF I would earn 1,000 QFF points minimum where as on VA I would 385 Velocity points and even as a Platinum would only earn 770 Velocity points.

As for burn here is where it gets really difficult. I value QFF points at ~2.5 cents each where as with Velocity points I struggle to get past ~0.6 cents per point.

My preference is for a Oneworld award at 140,000 QFF points and VA does not even come close.

For point to point airfares VA is way too confusing, not cheap and awkward connection point to Europe. I have no idea where they go in Asia or their partner.

 

[wafliron]

And of course this is going to turn into another QF vs VA thread.

Of course it will - a question like the one I posed to start this thread naturally lends itself to a "QF vs VA" debate I don't see that as any sort of problem though, as long as it stays factual, polite and on-topic - which is largely has so far (except perhaps the on-topic bit ;-)). In fact, that sort of debate is exactly what is needed to produce a thread that fairly comprehensively answers the "Earn / burn - VA vs QF" question from a range of different perspectives / flying patterns / etc.

That aside, thanks for your contribution... good to see a VA vs QF comparison from someone who is doing most of their flying on short / bargain fares.

My preference is for a Oneworld award at 140,000 QFF points and VA does not even come close.

Agree - QF kills VA in this area.

For point to point airfares VA is way too confusing, not cheap and awkward connection point to Europe. I have no idea where they go in Asia or their partner.

I would assume that once the SQ partnership kicks off they have pretty much all major international destinations covered?

 

[JohnK]

Of course it will - a question like the one I posed to start this thread naturally lends itself to a "QF vs VA" debate

It is a good thread but I meant it in a way that if you like VA then you are going to think Velocity is best and if you like QF then you will the QFF program best.

 

[UpInTheAir:)]

Hi Everyone

Not sure if its relevant but I did do a calculation (before the new QF SC alowances) and it cost $35,000 p.a. to get WP SC! That's a lot of drinks at the QC. Didn't matter if it was earned through international business, domestic business, 5000 discounted economy seats, etc, the $35K was about the amount your status costs you in cash...

Haven't done VA and haven't calculated if recently. As a small business owner its too scary to think about :shock:

No wonder the FF programs are so profitable...

 

[markis10]

And of course this is going to turn into another QF vs VA thread.

.

What a surprise given the title LOL
[h=2]VA v QF[/h]

 

[markis10]

Hi Everyone

Not sure if its relevant but I did do a calculation (before the new QF SC alowances) and it cost $35,000 p.a. to get WP SC! That's a lot of drinks at the QC. Didn't matter if it was earned through international business, domestic business, 5000 discounted economy seats, etc, the $35K was about the amount your status costs you in cash...

Haven't done VA and haven't calculated if recently. As a small business owner its too scary to think about :shock:

No wonder the FF programs are so profitable...

Your calculations are based on methods used by people who are not AFF members no doubt! 250SC can be had for $500 in Asia, 360 SC can be had for $1500 including 4 QF segments with a quick trip to FJ, at a rough estimate it would not cost more than $7000 for WP.

 

[wilco]

Hi Everyone

Not sure if its relevant but I did do a calculation (before the new QF SC alowances) and it cost $35,000 p.a. to get WP SC! That's a lot of drinks at the QC. Didn't matter if it was earned through international business, domestic business, 5000 discounted economy seats, etc, the $35K was about the amount your status costs you in cash...

Haven't done VA and haven't calculated if recently. As a small business owner its too scary to think about :shock:

No wonder the FF programs are so profitable...

Im not sure what you based your calculations on, but I (and I'm sure everyone else) get something entirely different. 1400 SC at $100 a pop (MEL-SYD or SYD-BNE) is $14,000. even at $200, that still only makes $28,000. However, WP can be had very comfortably for $3500, if that is your sole objective. One trip to the US, a few YUPP's while your there and voila, WP status.

I think markis10's calculation (^) is a little more realistic for most people (but thats not saying you don't spend the 35K)

As for the programs profitability, I don't think it has to do with how much money you actually spend on flights, as this goes to the relevant QF business unit (which in this case, is not FF). Indirectly, perhaps, but not in the way you suggest.

 

[UpInTheAir:)]

Your calculations are based on methods used by people who are not AFF members no doubt! 250SC can be had for $500 in Asia, 360 SC can be had for $1500 including 4 QF segments with a quick trip to FJ, at a rough estimate it would not cost more than $7000 for WP.

You are so right This forum is amazing... wish I'd found it earlier...
Look forward to saving plenty $$$ in the future and still clinking glasses with the other WPs in the QC

 

[drron]

There is only 1 reason that I think QF is really better than VA-you cant earn Aadvantage miles on VA.
As for the query on Diners points,if I had any it would be to SPG points then on to Aadvantage-still much better burn rates than either QFF or VA.
PS.Mrsdrron can easily requalify WP on 1 DONE4.