Points vs reward seats

[NarelleB]

What is the difference between booking a flight (Qantas) on points or booking reward seats?
Looking to book flights to Europe in Jan 25 once the flights/seats are opened up….

 

[RichardMEL]

What is the difference between booking a flight (Qantas) on points or booking reward seats?
Looking to book flights to Europe in Jan 25 once the flights/seats are opened up….

Most use the phrases interchangebly. Ie a reward seat is booked with points.

However technically there are "Classic Rewards" with set point values, and much harder to find. More generally one can "use points" to pay for a revenue seat, but at highly inflated values.

Many people not familiar with the game can confuse the two.

 

[NarelleB]

Most use the phrases interchangebly. Ie a reward seat is booked with points.

However technically there are "Classic Rewards" with set point values, and much harder to find. More generally one can "use points" to pay for a revenue seat, but at highly inflated values.

Many people not familiar with the game can confuse the two.

Thank you for that clarification. I’ve noticed Qantas only seem to release reward seats within 3-4 months of flying, which does my head in a little (like to be booked in weeeeelll in advance so I can work out other internal details) Is this observation correct? Also is there any advantage over booking multi city ticket vs individual return flights (other than different points of arrival/departure?)

 

[RichardMEL]

Thank you for that clarification. I’ve noticed Qantas only seem to release reward seats within 3-4 months of flying, which does my head in a little (like to be booked in weeeeelll in advance so I can work out other internal details) Is this observation correct? Also is there any advantage over booking multi city ticket vs individual return flights (other than different points of arrival/departure?)

Well, actually up til relatively recent times (anecdotally at least) QF would release classic reward seats 353 days out. However, the caveat being that these would be reserved for access by Elite Status members (Gold and higher typically) with lower and no status members getting a look in within 330 or so days iirc. Therefore, often the pick of the seats released could be grabbed before most get to see them.

However, more recently, QF appears to have changed the approach, and seemingly - on some routes at least - are releasing less or no obvious seats at 353 days, but instead drop "batches" from time to time, and often announce it as a big "reward release" - I suppose therefore giving more access to everyone - but usually within a closer in timeframe too (say that 3-4 months you notice) - after all, QF have a much higher awareness of bookings - specially on key international flights - than at near a year out.

So it's not quite as simple as it may seem, and there are plenty of examples to contradict anecdotal experiences also. For example, domestic reward seats tend to be fairly easy to come by well in advance on many routes. The big popular international routes though, such as to LAX or LHR - that can be much trickier - specially in Premium Cabins (eg: Business or First Class).

 

[tdimdad]

Welcome to AFF, NarelleB! Hopefully your travels are smooth and you find the forum valuable.

If you want to distinguish the different ways to pay for your booking, I've outlined them below for future reference.

1) The most common is paying the full fare with money, a "cash fare" or "revenue booking". In the image below, pick your choice from the first three options (sale / saver / flex).
2) A reward booking. This is what RichardMEL referred to as those which QF occasionally releases for booking at a reasonable amount of points. In the image below, it'd be 31,500 QF points plus AUD $122 for taxes & fees.


3) Another way is to use points instead of money to pay for any ticket. In this case, you'd take the sale / saver / flex fare and decide to pay for them in full using points. As you can see, that's a lot more points than a reward booking and most times poor value (in terms of what you get per point).

You may have heard of complaints in social media and some mainstream news that "Qantas has jacked up the amount of points needed to astronomical levels. What used to be 200,000 point to London is now over a million points...". This comment confuses two things: rewards and choosing to pay using points. The same logic applies to any of the flights where a reward is available. QF just has made is much easier to see the full cost in points and this trips people over when they see the "a million points to London."


4) An added nuance is the 'points plus pay' option where you choose the split between the points and $. This is done by choosing a normal cash fare and when you advance to the payment page, you can choose to replace some of the money with points. This, again, is usually poor use of your points (you get low value from them) but the choice is there.

 

[DejaBrew]

Welcome aboard @NarelleB

 

[NarelleB]

Welcome to AFF, NarelleB! Hopefully your travels are smooth and you find the forum valuable.

If you want to distinguish the different ways to pay for your booking, I've outlined them below for future reference.

1) The most common is paying the full fare with money, a "cash fare" or "revenue booking". In the image below, pick your choice from the first three options (sale / saver / flex).
2) A reward booking. This is what RichardMEL referred to as those which QF occasionally releases for booking at a reasonable amount of points. In the image below, it'd be 31,500 QF points plus AUD $122 for taxes & fees.
View attachment 369643

3) Another way is to use points instead of money to pay for any ticket. In this case, you'd take the sale / saver / flex fare and decide to pay for them in full using points. As you can see, that's a lot more points than a reward booking and most times poor value (in terms of what you get per point).

You may have heard of complaints in social media and some mainstream news that "Qantas has jacked up the amount of points needed to astronomical levels. What used to be 200,000 point to London is now over a million points...". This comment confuses two things: rewards and choosing to pay using points. The same logic applies to any of the flights where a reward is available. QF just has made is much easier to see the full cost in points and this trips people over when they see the "a million points to London."
View attachment 369644

4) An added nuance is the 'points plus pay' option where you choose the split between the points and $. This is done by choosing a normal cash fare and when you advance to the payment page, you can choose to replace some of the money with points. This, again, is usually poor use of your points (you get low value from them) but the choice is there.
View attachment 369645

Thank you for this detailed explanation, I will try to be much more savvy with my points spending now!

 

[Dr Ralph]

I’ve noticed Qantas only seem to release reward seats within 3-4 months of flying,

This isn't true.

 

[pagingjoan]

Perhaps not quite the right thread, so please point me in another direction if there is something that I have missed.

I've rarely booked Classic Reward seats - well, not since the glory days of ASAs - so may be overlooking something obvious.

But, when searching with "flexible with dates" enabled, the CR rosette comes up (OK, rarely, but it does appear ) for a particular date - but then no equivalent flight shows in the list.
This has not been an isolated incident, and it is not explained by someone else nabbing the seat at the same time, as if I go back and search again, the CR emblem still shows but no flight in that category.

So, any clues? What silly mistake am I making?

 

[djkelly69]

So, any clues?

Are you searching for more than one seat? Sometimes only one will be available (so the indicator will show), but if you are searching for more than one it won't have anything to actually show you.

 

[pagingjoan]

Just one seat.

 

[encryptededdy]

Just one seat.

Maybe click the "reward seats" filter button. In a regular search, only flights purchasable by cash are displayed. However, there are often partner award seats only purchaseable as a reward seat, which only show if that filter is engaged.

 

[pagingjoan]

Thank you - but have had the filter engaged.

 

[hsct]

4) An added nuance is the 'points plus pay' option where you choose the split between the points and $. This is done by choosing a normal cash fare and when you advance to the payment page, you can choose to replace some of the money with points. This, again, is usually poor use of your points (you get low value from them) but the choice is there.
View attachment 369645

Thanks for the detail info! Just managed to book a SYD-HKG redemption flight with this method by using 50400pts + $230 per pax.

 

[JohnK]

But, when searching with "flexible with dates" enabled, the CR rosette comes up (OK, rarely, but it does appear ) for a particular date - but then no equivalent flight shows in the list.
This has not been an isolated incident, and it is not explained by someone else nabbing the seat at the same time, as if I go back and search again, the CR emblem still shows but no flight in that category.

So, any clues? What silly mistake am I making?

Occurs often. It's called Phantom availability, more than likely related to partner awards that show as available but unable to be booked.

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

the CR rosette comes up (OK, rarely, but it does appear ) for a particular date - but then no equivalent flight shows in the list.

I have often found the same.

What I usually discover, maybe not in your case, is that as I scroll down looking for that flagged reward seat, it's often on an undesirable flight, such as dodgy time or a flight with 1 or 2 stopovers, perhaps with a partner carrier. Else, yeah its just some phantom flight as @JohnK says.

So let's say I'm wanting to SYD-HND (Tokyo fyi!) and it flags a date with the rosette. Click in but there are no direct flights. As I keep looking I find it - it's on China Airways going to Shanghai, stop for 5 hours, then onwards to Haneda. Instead of 9 hours direct, it's a 17 hour flight.

 

[pagingjoan]

I have often found the same.

What I usually discover, maybe not in your case, is that as I scroll down looking for that flagged reward seat, it's often on an undesirable flight, such as dodgy time or a flight with 1 or 2 stopovers, perhaps with a partner carrier. Else, yeah its just some phantom flight as @JohnK says.

So let's say I'm wanting to SYD-HND (Tokyo fyi!) and it flags a date with the rosette. Click in but there are no direct flights. As I keep looking I find it - it's on China Airways going to Shanghai, stop for 5 hours, then onwards to Haneda. Instead of 9 hours direct, it's a 17 hour flight.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

However, even that is not happening in my recent searches. No options at all showing, with Show All flights enabled.
I will have to assume that it is the fabled phantom availability. But it’s on the QF direct search, which seems unusual.

Anyway, I will admit defeat.

Thanks all for your replies.

 

[p--and--t]

Else, yeah its just some phantom flight as @JohnK says.

Phantom flights and indirect/long layover routing are different things AFAIAA.

Phantom flights never existed or disappeared before you got there (presumably a mismatch between airline systems as to what is available or not).

Indirect routing or long layovers are not "phantom" they are options you may choose (many do choose) and some may seem odd or not ideal/desirable, but if you want to get there then they are are available.

I often choose these because

1. I want to get there and direct option not available
2. Some of the options with some tweaking get me to go to places for a few days that I might not otherwise get to see.
3. The journey gets broken up so I am not sitting on the plane uninterrupted for a very long period.

If not on a tight schedule, using the Multisector tool can allow you to for example get from AU to Vancouver and pick dates with a gap that will allow you to have a few days along the way in Taipei or Hong Kong or Nadi or Tokyo in one or both directions so you get to see three countries instead of only your destination of Canada.

A lot of flyers will avoid the non-stop Perth to London for example, because they prefer to have a stop in Singapore or KL or elsewhere so they are not in a plane for more than 6-8hrs at a time. Indirect routing options presented allow this to happen.

 

[744]

I’m a lowly bronze member sitting on over 900000 points. Spent yesterday trying to find prem Y seats SYD SIN SYD in Oct or Nov this year. Nothing available. I’m new to this. Is this normal? Can understand lack of availability in J. Just seems all these points are useless tbh!

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

I’m a lowly bronze member sitting on over 900000 points. Spent yesterday trying to find prem Y seats SYD SIN SYD in Oct or Nov this year. Nothing available. I’m new to this. Is this normal?

Quite normal.
I'd say you're booking too close and should've started looking Dec or Jan.
Also premium Y is quite high in demand so those get snapped up pretty quick along with J.

And as many threads and discussions have mentioned, rather than QF releasing classic reward seats 353 days out, they now seem to be releasing them in random batches. So its a bit of a free-for-all and guess when reward seats are available.

We're all in the same boat! I'm also bronze with similar points.

This article might help

Easily Find Qantas & Velocity Reward Availability with Seats.aero

Seats.aero shows award availability across many routes and dates on one page, including Qantas and Velocity Frequent Flyer reward seats.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au