Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

[infinity]

Booked a Velocity J booking (at the "classic rate") SYD/LAX on VA1

T&C's say no name changes amongst other things.

Unlike QF, I couldnt cancel the booking get my points back and pay something of a penaly (QF AKA 5000 points)

As the person couldnt travel, all I got was a years extension for the same person to try to re-book on same sector at hopefully the same fare

if they can't travel, then taxes + points are forefeited

Velocity, this is just a plain money/points grab.

A good reason to stear clear of using Velocity and use QF Krisflyer etc

At least you get your taxes (hard cash) back plus points -5000!

Velocity members Beware!!:evil:

 

[Febs]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

Taking the points, whilst poor form, I can understand, if it's set out in the T&C. It sucks, for sure, but hey - there are other options out there.

Keeping the taxes though - is that even legal??

All up, pretty poor form.

 

[Moopere]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

This is news to me. I've not had to cancel one yet, but last time I booked a Velocity Business the T&C came up like this:

-Cancellations: You can cancel your flight at no additional cost, so long as the cancellation is made via the GCC. Cancellations can be made up to 24 hours after your flight's scheduled departure time, so long as you had not checked in. If you check in and do not show up, you will forfeit the fare paid and the Velocity Points used (if any), and you will not be eligible for a refund.

-Refunds: If you cancel your flight in accordance with these fare rules, you may receive a refund. Refunds can be requested by contacting the GCC or by emailing your booking reference number, the name of the Guest and flight dates to [email protected] If you are eligible for this option, you can elect to receive the refund in the same form as the original form of payment, except where you have paid by cash or EFTPOS, the refund will be directly deposited into your nominated Australian or New Zealand bank account. If you have booked using credit from another Virgin Australia fare type, you will not be eligible for a refund. If you have paid in Velocity Points your Points will receive a refund in Points. Refunds will reach your account within 7 ¿ 10 business days.

[EDIT: Although it occurs to me this might be a VA limitation rather than a Velocity one ... the above J T&C is from a domestic fare]

 

[QF1]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

Looks like Virgin cannot move away from its LCC heritage!!!

 

[Moopere]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

Looks like Virgin cannot move away from its LCC heritage!!!

Well... VAi anyway. VA/DJ J class Velocity redemptions appear to be refundable.

 

[Must...Fly!]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

I'm pretty sure this has been documented before on here, but I'm glad it's received some more attention. It's poor at best.

 

[pat25d]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

Looks like Virgin cannot move away from its LCC heritage!!!

Were VA ever a LCC?

 

[UA_SYD]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

These particular T&C's are the standout negative of the Velocity programme. No other airline (that I am aware of) penalises 100% cancellation of points. QF is 5,000. EY & VS are 15% penalty... if their partners, peers and competitors do it why are they so different?
I wrote some feedback... form response, will be sent to relevant department etc....

On a similar note... has anyone had any success changing a reward flight to a higher class of service? i.e. J -> F and pay points diff??

 

[anat0l]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

I wrote about this some time ago. I think Velocity's international partner redemptions have similar restrictions (though I haven't gone back to check, so some might have and some may not).

It took me a bit by surprise, though in saying that you don't often have to cancel an award. In this case, it's lucky you can have an opportunity to change it, so you don't lose it completely.

 

[markis10]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

These particular T&C's are the standout negative of the Velocity programme. No other airline (that I am aware of) penalises 100% cancellation of points. QF is 5,000. EY & VS are 15% penalty... if their partners, peers and competitors do it why are they so different?
I wrote some feedback... form response, will be sent to relevant department etc....

On a similar note... has anyone had any success changing a reward flight to a higher class of service? i.e. J -> F and pay points diff??

You do realise that when you say no other airline has 100% cancellation of points you are going to be shot down pretty quickly LOL. As an example, Qantas does this on some long haul Y and F fares, such as this one booked as a JASA which has no changes and no cancellation!

Bookings - Fare Types

In terms of the VA rules, its very clear in the fare types that this applies:

VA Fare Types| Velocity Frequent Flyer

Not great but thems the rules!

 

[UA_SYD]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

You do realise that when you say no other airline has 100% cancellation of points you are going to be shot down pretty quickly LOL. As an example, Qantas does this on some long haul Y and F fares, such as this one booked as a JASA which has no changes and no cancellation!

Bookings - Fare Types

In terms of the VA rules, its very clear in the fare types that this applies:

VA Fare Types| Velocity Frequent Flyer

Not great but thems the rules!

I’m not sure why I would be shot down, I’m just referring to my own experience and what I am reading as T&C's with other airlines.. and how that compares to VA's.
RE QF JASA fare you're referring to, is that not a revenue fare?


all three airlines T&C's below for reward cancellations, all of which I have experienced myself.

QF cancellation fees for reward seats, 5,000 points, noted here; Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Terms & Conditions

For VS, 25% penalty, Spending miles | Virgin Atlantic ,again,
4.2.1 If for any reason a flight reward is cancelled by the Member 7 days or more prior to departure, 75% of the Miles will be re-credited to the member’s account.

For EY, 15% penalty, https://www.etihadairways.com/sites...on/visitor/join/pages/termsnconditions.aspx#9
9.7.5. Refunds are permitted to a GuestSeat Reward at a charge of 15% of the Etihad Guest Miles redeemed for a GuestSeat Reward

 

[markis10]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

I’m not sure why I would be shot down, I’m just referring to my own experience and what I am reading as T&C's with other airlines.. and how that compares to VA's.
RE QF JASA fare you're referring to, is that not a revenue fare?


all three airlines T&C's below for reward cancellations, all of which I have experienced myself.

QF cancellation fees for reward seats, 5,000 points, noted here; Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Terms & Conditions

For VS, 25% penalty, Spending miles | Virgin Atlantic ,again,
4.2.1 If for any reason a flight reward is cancelled by the Member 7 days or more prior to departure, 75% of the Miles will be re-credited to the member’s account.

For EY, 15% penalty, https://www.etihadairways.com/sites...on/visitor/join/pages/termsnconditions.aspx#9
9.7.5. Refunds are permitted to a GuestSeat Reward at a charge of 15% of the Etihad Guest Miles redeemed for a GuestSeat Reward

JASA is an any seat award fare, or in this case, one thats more restrictive than the classic award fare when it comes to both changes and cancellation penalties. Saying that no airline other than DJ has award products with similar full lose of points penalties is clearly wrong, they are not common but they are out there, so always check the rules rather than assume!

It should also be pointed out that a 5000 point fee is only a recent change, QF used to have the same loss of points policy on classics, its hardly a LCC thing.

 

[lovestotravel]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

I'm pretty sure this has been documented before on here, but I'm glad it's received some more attention. It's poor at best.

It has quite a few times, as with anything read the T&C's before booking !

 

[UA_SYD]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

JASA is an any seat award fare, or in this case, one thats more restrictive than the classic award fare when it comes to both changes and cancellation penalties. Saying that no airline other than DJ has award products with similar full lose of points penalties is clearly wrong, they are not common but they are out there, so always check the rules rather than assume!

Wasn't aware of the QF/JASA fare, so good to know... but as you say yourself, its an exception/rare

I havent asumed all airlines dont have restrictive policies, Im going from personal experience and specifically refering to three airlines relevant to the VA discussion.
I also said in my post "No other airline (that I am aware of)"

 

[markis10]

Wasn't aware of the QF/JASA fare, so good to know... but as you say yourself, its an exception/rare

I said its not common, did not say its rare though, Delta, KLM/Air France certainly have them, most airlines dont permit any changes in Awards once its 24 hours before the first segment, another gotcha that gets a few!

To be precise, the OP was referring to Velocity's business class "classic" awards.

QFF JASA's may or may not be refundable.

Velocity's Points and Pay Business awards are generally fully refundable.

QFF Classic awards are refundable less the 5000 point 'fee'.
There has been a refund of points and payments less the 5000 point cancellation fee with QFF ever since I have been a member (17+ years).

There used to be waiver go the 'change' fee for elites until a few years ago.

Velocity "Saver" Premium and Business fares are also non refundable in certain classes.

 

[serfty]

To be precise, the OP was referring to Velocity's business class "classic" awards.

QFF JASA's may or may not be refundable.

Velocity's Points and Pay Business awards are generally fully refundable.

QFF Classic awards are refundable less the 5000 point 'fee'.

...
It should also be pointed out that a 5000 point fee is only a recent change, QF used to have the same loss of points policy on classics, its hardly a LCC thing.

There has been a refund of points and payments less the 5000 point cancellation fee with QFF ever since I have been a member (17+ years).

There used to be waiver of the 'change fee' for elites until a few years ago.

 

[markis10]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

QFF Classic awards are refundable less the 5000 point 'fee'.
There has been a refund of points and payments less the 5000 point cancellation fee with QFF ever since I have been a member (17+ years).

There used to be waiver go the 'change' fee for elites until a few years ago.

The partner classic awards were at least non refundable - had to put a claim in due to SARs June 2003 for a CX ticket using QFF points to TPE in J, I think the 5K was introduced in changes in 2001.

 

[777]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

I agree this is a low point of the velocity program. There are quite a few loose ends like this that need improving - a lot of which have some connection back to the limits of their IT systems or are probably not likely to change until the IT does.

 

[infinity]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

Fare Rules Premium Economy Reward
Fare Name: Premium Economy Reward
Cabin Class: Premium Economy
Flexibility: (see ''General information'' below for more details)
Name Changes: Not allowed
Date changes: Permitted both before and after departure.
* Fee of AUD$200 or 25,000 Points per person per change.
* Fare differences may be payable and other restrictions apply see ''General information'' below.
Routing changes: Permitted both before and after departure.
* Fee of AUD$200 or 25,000 Points per person per change
* Fare differences may be payable and other restrictions apply - see ''General information'' below.
Cancellation and no-shows (See ''General Information'' below for more details)
Before day of departure: Not permitted. Fare forfeited.
On or after day of departure: Not permitted. Fare forfeited.
Payment: Immediate payment required
Velocity Points: Eligible for earning Velocity Points see Velocity Frequent Flyer | Frequent Flyer Program of Virgin Australia for further details.
Minimum stay: 4 days
Maximum stay: 12 months
Stopovers: One free stopover, and one additional stopover (at a cost of AUD$125 or 15,600 Points each) permitted for the entire journey
Children and infants: Infants (under 2 yrs ) 10% of fare excluding taxes, fees & surcharges, but only if they do not occupy a separate seat. Children
(2-11 yrs) 75% of fare excluding taxes, fees & surcharges. Children & Infants must be accompanied. Children (2-11 yrs) 75% of fare excluding
taxes, fees & surcharges.
General information:
* Depending upon what fares are available through our Guest Contact Centre the fare for your new booking may be higher than the original
* You must pay any fare difference between the fare for your new booking and the original fare
* Your new booking must be for travel on the Virgin Australia International network within 12 months of the date that the original ticket was issued
(the ''OTD''). Any refunds must be obtained within 12 months of the OTD.
* Fare downgrading not permitted
* Separate servicing charges may apply.

These are the T&C's

Still, grabbing the taxes is penal if you have to walk away from teh flight and blow off the points!

Guess we will need to vote with our feet Velocity!:evil:

 

[Comoman]

re: Poor Velocity Bookings T&Cs - you wont get your points back!

I have to agree with the tax issue. If they haven't paid the tax to the ATO surely they must refund it.

They're collecting on behalf of the govt not themselves.