Private Health loss of Rebate for some

[rechoboam]

Not like those idiots in the hospitality industry who signed up for Workchoices!

Don't know what you mean but for all dentists to sign up for "denticare" is like all barristers agreeing for Legal Aid to fund all their practice forever. I am genuinely surprised this dental idea has the traction it has. There is simply no chance at all of it happening. Ask a dentist. Surely a visit every couple of years is affordable for all but the very poor? Maybe I'm deluded.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

...surely a visit every couple of years is affordable for all but the very poor? Maybe I'm deluded.

touche! some high income earners are saying they can't afford an extra $15 a week if they lose the rebate... how do you expect a working family on the average wage of $55k to find $320 a year for two parents and two kids to each go to the dentist (and that's just for clean and check - not mentioning any work needing done).

 

[medhead]

Did the governent actually get majority vote and power without "buying" the 3 indepenedents?

The majority of the vote is irrelevant, the majority of seats is what counts and they currently have the majority of seats supporting them.

I pay both Medicare and private health insurance since 1998. I have just receive an increase of $2.70 per month effective 1 April 2012.

This is not going to kill me but I cannot afford to keep paying extra taxes as my money is spoken for with overseas trips. I should not have to scale back my flying just because I am asked to pay more tax.

I'm sorry but this sounds like you are trying to pass off the $2.70 increase as a tax. It isn't. We've all suffered from an increase in the insurance premium from 1 April (or whenever). Oh and if you want equal, why is my monthly premium increase at least 10 times greater than your increase when I don't have 10 times the number of people covered?

I've never understood the arbitrary distinction between dentistry and the rest of medicine. What is so special about medical care of the teeth that there has to be a whole separate profession to care for them? Why isn't dentistry just a medical specialty? This distinction extends through to the medicare system whereby you are covered for every part of your body except your teeth.

Great question. What is so special about dentists that they can get away with charging $18 just to write a prescription? Last time I when to the doctor and paid them to "treat" me they didn't charge me an extra fee to actually get their recommended treatment.

+1000. When did running any sort of deficit become a bad thing?

When a particular recent government convinced the public that no deficits means good economic management and they public are so stupid that they took that bait hook, line and sinker.

 

[serfty]

...

... I should not have to scale back my flying just because I am asked to pay more tax.
...

Posted like a true AFFer ...

 

[JohnK]

I'm sorry but this sounds like you are trying to pass off the $2.70 increase as a tax. It isn't. We've all suffered from an increase in the insurance premium from 1 April (or whenever). Oh and if you want equal, why is my monthly premium increase at least 10 times greater than your increase when I don't have 10 times the number of people covered?

Not at all. A $2.70 increase is just an increase and that is all. But to lose rebate on top then it starts to hurt.

Then add the insurance premiums that just went up. And add the train fares that also went up. And let's not forget my accommodation also went up $20/week recently. And the airfares have also gone up. And petrol prices continue to increase. And beer prices in clubs have also increased.

And before you know it the 0% pay increase does not go very far for me.

And I bet some people would say that all these increases are Ok and I should simply sacrifice my overseas holidays for the good of those on handouts....

 

[11sjw]

Unfortunately true on both counts - and the same can be said of the $5B needed in the education sector. All these investment in health and education must be sacrificed in the name of producing a government surplus. Apparently that is the litmus test for credibility in the eyes of the public ... or is that just what the media tell us?

Nah, lets keep borrowing. Haven't seen a country recently get into trouble doing that.:shock:

 

[medhead]

Nah, lets keep borrowing. Haven't seen a country recently get into trouble doing that.:shock:

Of course, we've got a really long way to go with our borrowing before we get anywhere close to the borrowing of those countries.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Did the governent actually get majority vote and power without "buying" the 3 indepenedents?

They are surely not going to go down as one of the most popular goverments in Australian history without a popular victory. Bring back Beasley or even Latham. At least they had some idea....

Sorry - I didn't see this before. I stated the government was elected by a majority of the the people... that includes any independents. When people vote for an independent they know there is the potential for that MP to hold the balance of power. They elect that independent and give them the opportunity to exercise that balance if the case ever arises. And so yes, the government we end up with is as voted by the people. (With the exception of a short period of time following the sacking of the Whitlam government, however Fraser was only really in caretaker mode).

The same holds true even in America where voting is not compulsory. By electing NOT to vote, you are affecting the outcome of the election and are therefore responsible for the party that ends up in office.

 

[cove]

No one wants to even start thinking about paying back that 250 billion. It will take 20 good years to do that.

 

[rechoboam]

touche! some high income earners are saying they can't afford an extra $15 a week if they lose the rebate... how do you expect a working family on the average wage of $55k to find $320 a year for two parents and two kids to each go to the dentist (and that's just for clean and check - not mentioning any work needing done).

You have got to be joking.
Firstly, look at the bigger picture. If the 55k comes from a single wage earner the income tax before deductions, not including medicare levy etc is over $9000. They are paying $25 a year in flood levy alone. Oh and $4900 or so in superannuation because we can't let people chuck $320 into their dental health now, but at least they can buy dentures with their super. Why would we make someone like that pay ten THOUSAND dollars in tax then worry about how they can find $320 for dental work. If we started encouraging individual thrift perhaps we could let people make their own decisions about how much to spend on teeth with their own money rather than churning and churning.

But secondly, maybe I'm harsh but I absolutely think average wage earners should be able to find $360 (like I did on $55,000) for something as important as dental hygiene instead of expecting some massive government program?? When I think about this I just can't understand what the future holds for a society like ours...with these attitudes I'm not surprised we owe 250 billion...the more I think about it the more bizarre it seems to me.

 

[rechoboam]

"Of course, we've got a really long way to go with our borrowing before we get anywhere close to the borrowing of those countries."


It's the principle...like in Greece (I quote someone loosely) once 51% of the population have worked out how to live off the other 49% democracy is effectively dead.

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry - I didn't see this before. I stated the government was elected by a majority of the the people... that includes any independents. When people vote for an independent they know there is the potential for that MP to hold the balance of power. They elect that independent and give them the opportunity to exercise that balance if the case ever arises. And so yes, the government we end up with is as voted by the people. (With the exception of a short period of time following the sacking of the Whitlam government, however Fraser was only really in caretaker mode).

The same holds true even in America where voting is not compulsory. By electing NOT to vote, you are affecting the outcome of the election and are therefore responsible for the party that ends up in office.

Actually the (conservative ) independents were elected instead of a labour ( or LNP) candidate. anecdotal evidence suggests that oakshot and Windsor are both very unpopular with their electorate for siding with the Gillard government. The reality is vested interests plays a role here. The majority of the people did not want a labour government. That is as plain as the nose on your face.
You are however right to a point, those who elect an independent do run the risk of them holding the balance of power. However the reality is , independents are there because they are strong locally. Often coming for one or other of the major parties before hand. Katter for example.

 

[drron]

Of course, we've got a really long way to go with our borrowing before we get anywhere close to the borrowing of those countries.

Greek government debt-174% GDP.
Australian govt debt-10.6%
Australian private debt-160% GDP.
So we are in great shape if you dont think private debt has to be repaid.

 

[JohnK]

It's the principle...like in Greece (I quote someone loosely) once 51% of the population have worked out how to live off the other 49% democracy is effectively dead.

Greeks are a weird bunch. And hey I should know as I was born as one!

- They refuse to work in factories as you have to get up too early and that impedes on the ability to have a night life
- They love to spend their days in cafeterias
- They love to go out as a group for dinner and want to have an ouzo or retsina with the meal
- They despise paying any form of tax although have no choice on the GST
- It is their God given right to be on a pension and the silly part is some government departments have deals where you get the pension after 30 odd years in service and you can still work while you receive a pension and still pay very little tax

They acknowledge their country may be in some sort of trouble but cannot accept that they need to be involved to get it back on track....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You have got to be joking.
Firstly, look at the bigger picture. If the 55k comes from a single wage earner the income tax before deductions, not including medicare levy etc is over $9000. They are paying $25 a year in flood levy alone. Oh and $4900 or so in superannuation because we can't let people chuck $320 into their dental health now, but at least they can buy dentures with their super. Why would we make someone like that pay ten THOUSAND dollars in tax then worry about how they can find $320 for dental work. If we started encouraging individual thrift perhaps we could let people make their own decisions about how much to spend on teeth with their own money rather than churning and churning.

But secondly, maybe I'm harsh but I absolutely think average wage earners should be able to find $360 (like I did on $55,000) for something as important as dental hygiene instead of expecting some massive government program?? When I think about this I just can't understand what the future holds for a society like ours...with these attitudes I'm not surprised we owe 250 billion...the more I think about it the more bizarre it seems to me.

I think you missed my point. Some high income earners are arguing they can't find $15 a week. So my point is, how could we expect a family on a low income to find $320?

 

[serfty]

Has any considered the reasonable possibility that many of these 'high income' earners self insure in any case.

This change does not affect them.

Then there's that other group of 'high earners' who legally manage to have only a couple of tens of thousands of dollars assessed as taxable income each year even though they control revenue of 100's of thousands of dollars.

This change does not affect them.

 

[Moody]

Actually the (conservative ) independents were elected instead of a labour ( or LNP) candidate. anecdotal evidence suggests that oakshot and Windsor are both very unpopular with their electorate for siding with the Gillard government. The reality is vested interests plays a role here. The majority of the people did not want a labour government. That is as plain as the nose on your face.
You are however right to a point, those who elect an independent do run the risk of them holding the balance of power. However the reality is , independents are there because they are strong locally. Often coming for one or other of the major parties before hand. Katter for example.

You're right about Katter - he is now revealed as a complete and utter opportunist and looney. Funny how he was the one who sided with Abbott and the other independents felt that they had to go against "type" and form a coalition with Gillard. Very telling don't you think?

I would polish up your mirror and confirm that you do in fact own a proboscis!

 

[drron]

You're right about Katter - he is now revealed as a complete and utter opportunist and looney. Funny how he was the one who sided with Abbott and the other independents felt that they had to go against "type" and form a coalition with Gillard. Very telling don't you think?

I would polish up your mirror and confirm that you do in fact own a proboscis!

And you think Oakeshott is brighter than Katter?

 

[serfty]

You're right about Katter - he is now revealed as a complete and utter opportunist and looney. Funny how he was the one who sided with Abbott and the other independents felt that they had to go against "type" and form a coalition with Gillard. Very telling don't you think?

I would polish up your mirror and confirm that you do in fact own a proboscis!

The three mainland independents come from traditionally conservative electorates. Only the one from QLD is likely to be reelected if they all nominate for the next federal election. Of the two from NSW, they have basically upset the majority of their electorates.

I heard a rumour that the Hon. Tony Windsor is unlikely to re-contest his seat.

Posted on a wing and a prayer ...

 

[cove]

Don't ever think that Brown and Katter are dopes. I struggle to find any others who are about to get double pensions which was supposed to be impossible. A Federal and a State pension would be a lovely bit of cash flow when they hang up their boots or hat.
There should be legislation to stop this happening as double dipping like this is unfair.