Profitability of Qantas' CBR to SYD route.

[Mattg]

I caught a Qantaslink flight from Canberra to Sydney this morning and there was only 18 pax including myself and partner! Is this normal or did I just happen to be on an empty flight?

This raises a couple of questions; firstly is it really worth it for Qantas to have so many services on this route? Secondly, with so many empty seats, why does Qantas charge so much? (currently $129). Wouldn't they be better off charging less and puttin more bums on seats?

 

[oz_mark]

I caught a Qantaslink flight from Canberra to Sydney this morning and there was only 18 pax including myself and partner! Is this normal or did I just happen to be on an empty flight?

This raises a couple of questions; firstly is it really worth it for Qantas to have so many services on this route? Secondly, with so many empty seats, why does Qantas charge so much? (currently $129). Wouldn't they be better off charging less and puttin more bums on seats?

Frequency of service is a very important factor on this route, due to the nature of most of the travel. It allows flexibility for people travelling for meetings in one city or the other.

(and yes, the weekends can be quite low on numbers)

 

[Ewing]

Don't worry, I'm sure they more than make up for it when Parliament is sitting.

-Shaun

(who has paid ~$350 for an economy seat on CBR-SYD on a Friday afternoon during Parliament. That was more than my ticket to the concert that I went to that night).

 

[Mattg]

Don't worry, I'm sure they more than make up for it when Parliament is sitting.

-Shaun

(who has paid ~$350 for an economy seat on CBR-SYD on a Friday afternoon during Parliament. That was more than my ticket to the concert that I went to that night).

Well that's true I guess. But still, having a plane less than 1/4 full at any time can't be too profitable.

 

[pauly7]

Well that's true I guess. But still, having a plane less than 1/4 full at any time can't be too profitable.

A Qantas friend once showed me the break even on the dash-8's on a certain route (an average rev for that route). I almost fell out of my tree

Put it this way, the dash-8s need very few bums on seats to turn a profit. That's why they are referred to internally as 'the flying cash registers' of the QF fleet.

That's why QFLink whips the e-jets cough and that's why JB when we first got to VA junked a bunch of them and order turbo props.

 

[markis10]

That's why QFLink whips the e-jets cough and that's why JB when we first got to VA junked a bunch of them and order turbo props.

By EJets you mean the E170s, by bunch you mean 4 ( replaced by more E190s). Yes they are dearer to operate than the Dash (30% higher) and many operators are finding the hard to turn a profit on, but the Dash 8s are not great either, which is why Alliance are making a motza out of their multiple year wet lease to QFLink of the F100s for ROK and MKY.

The Q400 has a block hour operating cost in the vicinity of $2000 while the ATR is $1900, under 400NM the ATR wins, over that the Dash 8 wins due to it's higher cruise.

 

[elbarto]

Well Jetstar doesn't fly from CBR so that's a fairly good indication that QF makes good money out of CBR.

 

[Justchecking]

There must be some profit there to have 2 majors servicing it on 6 flights a day schedule for the past however many years. Lowering the price of seat doesn't automatically put bums on it, especially for routes and timings that don't suit a lot of people. Cbr-Syd on a Sunday morning for example. It wouldn't matter how low the price if I had no reason to go there. Its not as if a lot of people start their holidays or weekends away on a Sunday.

If I remember the Q400 marketing hype correctly the break even point is only 30% capacity at $60
each. I think I read that on the manufacturers webpage once.

 

[Mattg]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Yes, I agree that for this route they'll sell more tickets based on schedule than price, but people like me won't pay $150 for a one-way ticket on a half hour flight. Surely it would help to have a few cheaper seats. The flight I took yesterday was less than a quarter full, does that even break even for QF?

 

[Justchecking]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Yes, I agree that for this route they'll sell more tickets based on schedule than price, but people like me won't pay $150 for a one-way ticket on a half hour flight. Surely it would help to have a few cheaper seats. The flight I took yesterday was less than a quarter full, does that even break even for QF?

Well considering you paid $150 one way I'd hazard that yes, they did break even.

 

[TiredOldFlyer]

I caught a Qantaslink flight from Canberra to Sydney this morning and there was only 18 pax including myself and partner! Is this normal or did I just happen to be on an empty flight?

This raises a couple of questions; firstly is it really worth it for Qantas to have so many services on this route? Secondly, with so many empty seats, why does Qantas charge so much? (currently $129). Wouldn't they be better off charging less and puttin more bums on seats?

Think its to keep the polies (and public servants) on side ?

 

[muppet]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Yes, I agree that for this route they'll sell more tickets based on schedule than price, but people like me won't pay $150 for a one-way ticket on a half hour flight. Surely it would help to have a few cheaper seats. The flight I took yesterday was less than a quarter full, does that even break even for QF?

I think for the CBR market they really have to have schedule regardless of profitabilty. Many people have to connect through SYD from CBR to domestic and international. It's a feeder route to the good old 'hub n spoke'.

 

[Warks]

I once dropped off my boss at CBR (he'd flown down for the day, I'd driven a couple of days previously) and got home before him! This was even before the M7 made getting to my place (northern suburbs of Sydney) that much quicker.

Mind you there was a nasty storm and his plane was hit by lightning on the tarmac at SYD delaying things a little!

Still it's three hours door to door to drive for me. With all the faffing around getting to the airport early and a decent drive I reckon flying's only 30 minutes faster on average. Okay if you live near the airport though.

 

[harvyk]

I once dropped off my boss at CBR (he'd flown down for the day, I'd driven a couple of days previously) and got home before him! This was even before the M7 made getting to my place (northern suburbs of Sydney) that much quicker.

Mind you there was a nasty storm and his plane was hit by lightning on the tarmac at SYD delaying things a little!

Still it's three hours door to door to drive for me. With all the faffing around getting to the airport early and a decent drive I reckon flying's only 30 minutes faster on average. Okay if you live near the airport though.

Flying is useful if you are a solo traveller, and you need to get into SYD CBD especially early in the morning as driving up from CBR the M5 can turn into a parking lot (and that 3 hour drive turns into a 5 hour drive), where as I can fly up in the morning, jump on the train at SYD and be in the CBD a short time later.

 

[samiam]

...(who has paid ~$350 for an economy seat on CBR-SYD on a Friday afternoon during Parliament. That was more than my ticket to the concert that I went to that night).

Hand up here as well - short notice on Friday afternoon out of Canberra is, as one might expect, expensive.

 

[ausi ski bum]

I fly that route a lot and its pretty rare to see planes that empty.

 

[dajop]

Also important to remember that sometimes an aircraft just may have to get somewhere to make the good $$$ coming back. Was recently on a TG A330 BKK-BOM with just enough economy pax to fill a Saab (ie 34). But looking at loadings for when I was coming back the following Friday (ie flight was almost full), I am sure they would have easily filled the plane up on the way back with people paying extra for the privilege.

 

[Grooba]

I fly that route a lot and its pretty rare to see planes that empty.

I also fly that route semi regularly and have never seen the planes empty. I guess that's because I'll never fly the -8

 

[Mattg]

I also fly that route semi regularly and have never seen the planes empty. I guess that's because I'll never fly the -8

Haha so its not just me that doesn't like the dash 8s? I usually will pick the 737 flights unless there are none available when I need to travel.

 

[harvyk]

Haha so its not just me that doesn't like the dash 8s? I usually will pick the 737 flights unless there are none available when I need to travel.

Same here, I'll do what I can to avoid a -8... That said if I have little choice I'd rather fly CBR-SYD on one as usually I'll then be going SYD-Somewhere Exciting. There is nothing worse than a -8 SYD-CBR flight after a long haul...