Qantas and Dubai - what's really going on

[browski]

As the OP, I was surprised the belief is still held that DXB is not a destination unto itself. Yes, the majority of passengers do carry on to European destinations; however I have stood countless times in the Immigration queues and been surrounded by enormous numbers of people from my flight (and other flights) entering DXB.

Aussies living in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Muscat, Kuwait, Bahrain, Riyadh, Beirut, Amman and even Karachi would love to have a One World option that flies direct from the Middle East (Dubai is the obvious destination point) to Australia.
There are 21,000 aussies alone living in Dubai. There are 100,000 aussies combined living in those nearby cities. Business travel to the middle east is also strong (irrespective of the GFC and the ongoing Dubai World dramas).

There is something else going on. All those stats make for a compelling case to have a minimum 3-times weekly service from Sydney (or Perth if the current Qantas aircraft cannot fly that far).

The same mystery surrounded the abandonment of the SYDNEY to BOMBAY non-stop flights. How could Qantas, as the ONLY airline to fly non-stop to India, not be able to make a go of it? As we all know there are over 120,000 Indian students in Australia alone, let alone the other potential travellers. They lost out to TG, SQ and MH even though none of those airlines were non-stop (and they are all full service airlines, not LCCs!)

Is it too bold to suggest that we have seen the end of any new Qantas routes ever?

If these routes will be flown by any Australian airline in the future, it will be JetStar or VAustralia.

 

[oz_mark]

There is something else going on. All those stats make for a compelling case to have a minimum 3-times weekly service from Sydney (or Perth if the current Qantas aircraft cannot fly that far).

The same mystery surrounded the abandonment of the SYDNEY to BOMBAY non-stop flights. How could Qantas, as the ONLY airline to fly non-stop to India, not be able to make a go of it? As we all know there are over 120,000 Indian students in Australia alone, let alone the other potential travellers. They lost out to TG, SQ and MH even though none of those airlines were non-stop (and they are all full service airlines, not LCCs!)

When you have limited resources (ie aircraft), you deploy them where you think you will get the best returns. I would say that Qantas has spent a fair bit of time optimising the routes they use with their available aircraft (Tiger do the same thing, but they are much quicker on dropping routes).

I think it is too much to say that we won't see any further Qantas routes, but I think you will see many more from Jetstar et al. However, I don't see a real lot changing until the 787 is introduced.

 

[markis10]

Totally agree with Dalescott.

Being associated with the tourism industry in WA, Emirates flying direct into Perth has been the most significant event since the America's cup because they bring in so much traffic from all points beyond Europe and those passengers from the UK can avoid Heathrow.

But that is not going to help QF which is the subject of this thread, QF dont hub out of the middle east or LHR so the advantages of flying direct to the Middle East are negated by the lack of possible onward destinations available with its own aircraft or one world partners. I am not sure the Governments of those countries would permit a hub anyway, a bit like asking why SQ dont fly to LAX via SYD in some ways!

 

[cosi]

But that is not going to help QF which is the subject of this thread,

Qantas gives "lip service" to residents of Perth with scheduling of international flights.

For example

Per-Sin
QF 13 flights per week
SQ 18 flights per weel

Per-HKG
QF 3 flights per week
CX 7 flights per week

I am told that WA has the most number of WP for any city but all travellers are limited with the QF scheduling.

EK fly twice a day from PER-DBX using large capacity planes. It obvious QF does not want to offer any competition

 

[markis10]

Qantas gives "lip service" to residents of Perth with scheduling of international flights.

For example

Per-Sin
QF 13 flights per week
SQ 18 flights per weel

Per-HKG
QF 3 flights per week
CX 7 flights per week

I am told that WA has the most number of WP for any city but all travellers are limited with the QF scheduling.

EK fly twice a day from PER-DBX using large capacity planes. It obvious QF does not want to offer any competition

Perth gets better coverage than BNE when it comes to QF SIN flights! It also depends on where people want to go, I suspect QF are going to put their resources into servicing Asia/America better rather than Europe, and leave Europe to JQ.

 

[browski]

I suspect QF are going to put their resources into servicing Asia/America better rather than Europe, and leave Europe to JQ.

Not sure anybody would agree that Qantas services Asia well!

Let's look at these important Asian cities that Qantas does not service:

Beijing - no Qantas flights, that's right, none at all.
Guangzhou - Zero
Kuala Lumpur - Zero
Hanoi - Zero
Ho Chi Minh City - Zero
Taipei - Zero
Phnom Penh - Zero
Vientiene - Zero
Seoul - Zero
Sapporo - Zero
Osaka - Zero
Fukuoka - Zero
Delhi - Zero
Chennai - Zero
Kolkata - Zero
Guam - Zero
Yangon - Zero
Macau - Zero
Port Morseby - Zero
Brunei - Zero
Dhaka - Zero
PyongYang - Zero
Dili - Zero
Colombo - Zero

Apparantly there are some flights to Singapore, Bangkok, Narita and Hong Kong. Manila and Jakarta must be feeling very nervous.

 

[docjames]

Perth gets better coverage than BNE when it comes to QF SIN flights! .

+1 to that - daily flight leaving mid-morning so lose the whole day, and only 2 class (A330, admittedly also what PER gets).

 

[Dave Noble]

+1 to that - daily flight leaving mid-morning so lose the whole day, and only 2 class (A330, admittedly also what PER gets).

Unless buying 1st that's not too big an issue , but the BNE flight has the great benefit of a much more civilised arrival time into SIN

 

[markis10]

Not sure anybody would agree that Qantas services Asia well!

Let's look at these important Asian cities that Qantas does not service:

Beijing - no Qantas flights, that's right, none at all.
Guangzhou - Zero
Kuala Lumpur - Zero
Hanoi - Zero
Ho Chi Minh City - Zero
Taipei - Zero
Phnom Penh - Zero
Vientiene - Zero
Seoul - Zero
Sapporo - Zero
Osaka - Zero
Fukuoka - Zero
Delhi - Zero
Chennai - Zero
Kolkata - Zero
Guam - Zero
Yangon - Zero
Macau - Zero
Port Morseby - Zero
Brunei - Zero
Dhaka - Zero
PyongYang - Zero
Dili - Zero
Colombo - Zero

Apparantly there are some flights to Singapore, Bangkok, Narita and Hong Kong. Manila and Jakarta must be feeling very nervous.

I am not sure anybody is saying Qantas do Asia well but to be fair we need to look at the past and also current circumstances:

Beijing - China flights are capacity limited - see other thread on increase announced
Guangzhou - China flights are capacity limited - see other thread on increase announced.
Kuala Lumpur - Both AN and QF failed to make it work, maybe JQ can
Hanoi - Serviced by JQ group
Ho Chi Minh City - Serviced by JQ group
Taipei - QF could not make it work (but the 2K return J fares were good while they lasted - even on the SP's) since 1991, codeshared
Phnom Penh - Serviced by JQ group
Seoul - Codeshared
Osaka - JQ
Guam - CO occasionaly manage to fill the 737 from CNS
Yangon - JQ
Macau - JQ
Port Morseby - Codeshared after QF dropped out
Dili - Air north have it covered, last QF flight was a flying boat once a fortnight I believe.

Open Skies are not part of every countries policy collection, for instance North Korea's own airline has two destinations it services twice a week while Air china has a thrice weekly service into PyongYang , cannot see much hope for QF here!

 

[Oneworldplus2]

...The same mystery surrounded the abandonment of the SYDNEY to BOMBAY non-stop flights. How could Qantas, as the ONLY airline to fly non-stop to India, not be able to make a go of it? As we all know there are over 120,000 Indian students in Australia alone, let alone the other potential travellers.

I'll give you a hint. Expensive and Student don't go together.

 

[Must...Fly!]

True but the international students who attend are usually pretty well off. Fees for international students are quite high.

 

[docjames]

Unless buying 1st

Or Y+ which I would prefer (in line with the proposed "new" 380/744 layoyuts ie J/Y+/Y)


I just cannot understand why QF wont put Y+ seating into their A330s.

 

[dajop]

As The same mystery surrounded the abandonment of the SYDNEY to BOMBAY non-stop flights. How could Qantas, as the ONLY airline to fly non-stop to India, not be able to make a go of it?

The Indian one is simple. The transfer from dom-intl at SYD is cough. The transfer from intl-dom at BOM is also cough. So SYD-BOM works well if that's your origin and that's your destination. But there is more to Australia than SYD and more to India than BOM. SQ and others do so well because a) they have daily services and b) they can get passengers from any one of MEL/SYD/BNE/PER/ADL with just a single stop to any one of BOM/MAA/DEL/BLR/CCU. And if your travel requires any sort of connection it is much easier to do at SIN than at SYD or BOM.

QF do this as well, the BOM connection at SIN supports services from MEL/BNE/SYD/ADL/PER and DRW if you include the JQ codeshare, and at the other end DEL is supported by the QF codeshare on 9W.

I think it is unrealistic of QF to support costly, potentially unprofitable routes already well (and better served) by other carriers. What is telling is that I have seen in some instances is QF website selling connections to Jetstar Asia (3K) at SIN from Australia-SIN services (eg MNL flights). I think increasingly we well see this as QF's way of connecting into Asia. Would be nice to see an increase in QF services to SIN to support this as well ... said purely from a selfish perspective..

 

[drewbles]

But it is hurting QF, big time. They have lost alot of international passengers over the last few years.
As others have pointed out rightly in the past on this forum, why travel SYD-SIN-LHR-xx_ (Insert European city), when you can do SYD-DXB-xx_.

1 less stop, get there sooner + less connections. Oh, and a better price on Emirates (most of the time).


Just my 2 cents.

QF have lost my parents business due to the requirement to avoid LHR when going to Europe. EK offer far more than just LHR/CDG connections, and from PER, there's some great routes available (My parents regularly do PER-DXB-DUS).

Personally, I still think QF would be better off diversifying their destinations in order to pickup more pax, but with them having closed so many (CDG/FCO/ATH etc) over the years, I can't see it happening.

I know many people who have given QF the flick in favour of a more favourable routing avoiding LHR, as well as better pricing more often.

So yes, Totally agree here

 

[browski]

The Indian one is simple. The transfer from dom-intl at SYD is cough. The transfer from intl-dom at BOM is also cough. So SYD-BOM works well if that's your origin and that's your destination. But there is more to Australia than SYD and more to India than BOM. SQ and others do so well because a) they have daily services and b) they can get passengers from any one of MEL/SYD/BNE/PER/ADL with just a single stop to any one of BOM/MAA/DEL/BLR/CCU. And if your travel requires any sort of connection it is much easier to do at SIN than at SYD or BOM.

QF do this as well, the BOM connection at SIN supports services from MEL/BNE/SYD/ADL/PER and DRW if you include the JQ codeshare, and at the other end DEL is supported by the QF codeshare on 9W.

Dajop, FWIW that is a fine response.

 

[cosi]

EK from Australia to Dubai (and beyond) 70 flights per week and will increase to 84 weeks per week.

That is 10 flights a day going up to 12 flights a day.

QF is zero and obviousily has little to NO interest.

 

[anat0l]

QF have lost my parents business due to the requirement to avoid LHR when going to Europe. EK offer far more than just LHR/CDG connections, and from PER, there's some great routes available (My parents regularly do PER-DXB-DUS).

Personally, I still think QF would be better off diversifying their destinations in order to pickup more pax, but with them having closed so many (CDG/FCO/ATH etc) over the years, I can't see it happening.

I know many people who have given QF the flick in favour of a more favourable routing avoiding LHR, as well as better pricing more often.

So yes, Totally agree here

It'd be nice if QF had better support for the service to FRA. That wouldn't be such a bad hub (notwithstanding the complaints received about FRAport itself, but it doesn't seem worse than LHR). Of course, QF do not provide connection support from FRA (or will force you to route through LHR anyway, i.e. via partner BA), which probably makes FRA an unattractive choice, but you'd think that if people were really sick of LHR and QF forcing them to connect through it, you would see:

• QF struggling to fill planes with good yields on the Kangaroo routes
• High loads on the SYD-SIN-FRA route, even if people had to get a separate itinerary to connect from FRA (which they would assume is a lesser evil than having to negotiate LHR)
• Low yields on all flights QF flights to/from Europe (come on, it can't just be the Brits alone who are supporting these routes)
• Connecting via other oneworld ports or marketed routings (codeshares) to get to where they want (e.g. QF to HKG and then CX direct to many European locations)
• Flying another airline in the alliance (e.g. CX or JL) that doesn't need connecting through LHR.

Patriotism for patriotism's sake is a ridiculously dumb excuse coupled with hypocrisy ad nauseum to subject one to what they freely admit is sadis_ punishment.

 

[docjames]

QF have lost my parents business due to the requirement to avoid LHR when going to Europe. EK offer far more than just LHR/CDG connections, and from PER, there's some great routes available (My parents regularly do PER-DXB-DUS).

Personally, I still think QF would be better off diversifying their destinations in order to pickup more pax, but with them having closed so many (CDG/FCO/ATH etc) over the years, I can't see it happening.

I know many people who have given QF the flick in favour of a more favourable routing avoiding LHR, as well as better pricing more often.

Well, really, they needto be hubbing smaller a/c (read: A330 with + range = 787 which is delayed) out of their mini-hub in SIN. Suspect that's been the plan all along, but delays to the 787, with the A330 range uneconomic to Western EU, means all this has been delayed (same for JQ too).

Once the 787s are on board, they really have an opportunity to open up MUC, CDG, ATH etc with their own a/c.

 

[anat0l]

Once the 787s are on board, they really have an opportunity to open up MUC, CDG, ATH etc with their own a/c.

Yeah, unfortunately it might be JQ that will be doing just that.

 

[docjames]

Yeah, unfortunately it might be JQ that will be doing just that.

That's the worry.....:evil: