QANTAS being taken over by Macquarie Bank..

[Takeshi]

Thats a good point, yes I think no one knows what will happen.

When they release the long awaited Bidders Statement, will they reveal what plans they have and what they will do with Qantas.
Will we the general public know, or will be a confidential matter?
Anyone know how it works ?

Cheers

 

[NM]

You are forgetting one small detail, The Unions.
Yep seems that all Qantas staff are worried about hhis takeover.
The unions want written contracts to secure the employment of 30,000 staff.

The consortium says don't worry, nothing will change.
Yeah right, if thats the case, how will they get a return from this huge investment.
If the consortium is so sure nothing will change, then they should put it in writting with a binding contract, should they ? Yes, will they ? NO

Here is what AAP has said today regarding jobs in the Qantas Group in a media announcement.

QANTAS TO REMAIN ONE OF AUSTRALIA'S BIGGEST EMPLOYERS

29 January 2007

A Director and spokesman for Airline Partners Australia, Mr Bob Mansfield AO, today confirmed Airline Partners Australia's support for Qantas' continued growth and maintenance of its substantial training and apprenticeship program.

"We intend to uphold Qantas' reputation as a responsible employer with a track record of jobs growth and career opportunities," Mr Mansfield said.

"Airline Partners Australia fully supports Qantas' senior management and their growth plans for the Qantas group.

"Our plans for Qantas include supporting a $10 billion capital investment program over the next five years. More than 70 new aircraft will be introduced over the next seven years to increase capacity by approximately 40% and deliver improved customer service. This investment will create new employment opportunities.

"Airline Partners Australia strongly supports Qantas' substantial training program and its status as one of Australia's largest employers of apprentices.

"Airline Partners Australia will be writing to Qantas employees to assure them that the acquisition will have no impact on employee entitlements, employee travel benefits or benefits being received by former employees.

"Under Airline Partners Australia's ownership, Qantas will remain majority Australian¬owned and controlled and will continue to be one of Australia's biggest employers," Mr Mansfield said.

For further information contact:
Martin Debelle Cannings
Tel: (02) 9252 0622 Fax: (02) 9252 0707
Email: [email protected] CANNINGS Corporate Communications

 

[QF WP]

Sounds to me like they are hedging their bets. If they knew the deal was not going to happen, they would have sold 100% of their holding and made a good profit, only to buy back into it again later when the deal is squashed and price falls back to the $4.30 mark. Likewise, if they knew it was a done deal they would be holding out for the full $5.60.

So this tells me that the largest shareholder does not know which way the deal is going to go - and neither do I.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Now this didn't help Mrs LW's understanding when she asks me whether she should sell or hold. For the record, the shares I control through my Family Trust are sitting on the fence at present as well....I might need the money :shock:

 

[simongr]

Airline Partners Australia will be writing to Qantas employees to assure them that the acquisition will have no impact on employee entitlements, employee travel benefits or benefits being received by former employees

The key thing here being taht the acquisition will have no impact - management's current plans/strategies might already include substantial reductions...

 

[serfty]

The key thing here being taht the acquisition will have no impact - management's current plans/strategies might already include substantial reductions...

Yep, possibly no different to this quote: "Our plans for Qantas include supporting a $10 billion capital investment program over the next five years. More than 70 new aircraft will be introduced over the next seven years to increase capacity by approximately 40% and deliver improved customer service. This investment will create new employment opportunities. ...".

AFAIK, there are already 70 aircraft on order, so that article is nothing more than a rehash of existing facts in the guise of PR spin ...

 

[serfty]

Actually, on re-reading, while being spin, there is a bit of bullsh¶t in there; if not an outright lie:

"Under Airline Partners Australia's ownership, Qantas will remain majority Australian¬owned and controlled and will continue to be one of Australia's biggest employers," Mr Mansfield said.

If the APA bid succeeds, Qantas may then be "Majority Australian controlled" but it certainly will not be majority Australian owned! :evil:

 

[NM]

Yep, possibly no different to this quote: "Our plans for Qantas include supporting a $10 billion capital investment program over the next five years. More than 70 new aircraft will be introduced over the next seven years to increase capacity by approximately 40% and deliver improved customer service. This investment will create new employment opportunities. ...".

AFAIK, there are already 70 aircraft on order, so that article is nothing more than a rehash of existing facts in the guise of PR spin ...

Except that to achieve the 40% capacity increase they may have to change the plans for retirement of the 743 and 763 aircraft as the 70 new ones arrive .

 

[QF WP]

Qantas unions have failed to secure an iron-clad guarantee that jobs will be retained if the $11 billion bid for the airline succeeds...

 

[QF WP]

Industry superannuation fund leader Garry Weaven yesterday called on the private equity consortium bidding for Qantas to outline its real plans for the airline, saying there was a "strong suspicion" the deal was driven by the huge fees available to the buyers...

 

[codash1099]

Industry superannuation fund leader Garry Weaven yesterday called on the private equity consortium bidding for Qantas to outline its real plans for the airline, saying there was a "strong suspicion" the deal was driven by the huge fees available to the buyers...

If it's taken them that long to wake up to this as a possibility, I begin to fear for my superannuation!!

 

[QF WP]

Well, having listened to Gary Weaven talk at an industry conference in November, I would have to agree with your comment.

 

[Altair]

Sell-off Demands full disclosure

Another article from The Australian, this time from a non-aviation writer.
Sell-off deal demands full disclosure | Aviation | The Australian
What I find interesting this the demand for future plans, how to make profit, protection for QFF's. This is more than they are legally required, and I believe QFF are legally regarded as unsecured creditors.

 

[simongr]

Re: Sell-off Demands full disclosure

I believe QFF are legally regarded as unsecured creditors.

Are they? They werent with Ansett were they?

 

[Altair]

Re: Sell-off Demands full disclosure

Are they? They werent with Ansett were they?

Yes but on the bottom of the pile I believe, but as an auditor you would probably have a better idea than me. There was a very vocal self appointed representative who kept insisting that ANFF to get their points honoured etc by whomever took over AN. Of course he was ignored as quite rightly there were many others who had their own money at stake, eg. staff and suppliers, if AN was to collapse.
What I do not know is if there is a monetary value assigned per point etc. QFF is listed as a liability and expense but I do not know how any loyalty program accounts for it, I wonder if there is a GAAP, A-FRS covering this? Well of course there is but I just do not remember the appropriate references.
Edit: add link to Blog that covers FF Point valuation. Upgrade: Travel Better » Blog Archive » The value of frequent flyer miles

 

[NM]

Re: Sell-off Demands full disclosure

... and I believe QFF are legally regarded as unsecured creditors.

The QFF Terms and Conditions that each member agreed to when joining include clauses that allow Qantas to terminate or modify the program at any time. So I do not believe QFF members would be due anything if Qantas ceased to exist or if they chose to sell or terminate the program.

Check out Section 4 in the Qantas Frequent Flyer Terms and Conditions as posted on the Qantas web site:

4. Termination or Suspension of Qantas Frequent Flyer

4.1 Qantas gives no warranty as to the continuing availability of Qantas Frequent Flyer. Qantas may terminate or suspend Qantas Frequent Flyer at any time. Where circumstances are appropriate, Qantas will use reasonable efforts to give at least 6 months notice to Members of such termination or suspension.

4.2 If Qantas terminates or suspends Qantas Frequent Flyer then Qantas may terminate or cancel any Awards or Benefits.

4.3 Subject to applicable laws, Qantas will not be liable for any loss or damage whatsoever suffered by any Member as a result of such termination, suspension or cancellation.

That does not sound like FF members are considered unsecured creditors.

 

[Altair]

Section 4.3 Subject to applicable laws....
Anyway if QFF ended, which I seriously doubt APA would do, or worse if QF went bankrupt I would not be demanding payment of my FFP.
Of course with the views of the "ordinary Australians", eg. saving up for a family holiday, that the media has been portraying I may not be in the majority.

 

[Takeshi]

They have lodged the Bid now, but I want to know, what power has the bid got ?
Is it worth the paper its written on ?
Once they become the new owners they can do whatever they want.
What can we do if they say that they won't sell the FF program, and then 6 months time when the dust settles, they sell it off .

Someone in the know please explain this to me.
What power has a bidders statement have ?

 

[NM]

What can we do if they say that they won't sell the FF program, and then 6 months time when the dust settles, they sell it off .

It depends on who you mean by "we".

If you mean "we" the members of the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program, then "we" can do nothing. The owners of the Qantas FF program have the right to sell it, change it, or discontinue it as they see fit. We, the members of the program, have no say in the matter, nor any legal "right" to anything. Read the terms and conditions of the program that "we" accepted when we joined. If you don't like any changes that are introduced, then tell them and find another loyalty program that better suits you goals.

If you mean current shareholders of QAN shares, then if the purchasers have misrepresented any facts in their statement to current shareholders, there may some grounds for legal action. However, I would expect any action would be limited to the affect such misinformation had on the true value of the shares they purchased, and that is going to be very hard to prove.

 

[Dave Noble]

From smh yesterday

THE Airline Partners Australia consortium has stressed its $5.60-a-share takeover bid for Qantas is final, and the profit it expects to make from the airline relates to the planned 40 per cent increase in fleet size rather than job cuts.

Releasing its bidder's statement in Sydney on Friday, the APA board made its first public showing, repeating its message the private equity deal would not only benefit Qantas shareholders but also the travelling public.

It also stressed it had no plans to make a quick dollar from its investment.

$5.60 offer for Qantas final: APA - Business - Business - smh.com.au

With the offer opening tomorrow and closing on March 9 , will soon know whether the planned buyout is successful

Dave

 

[Takeshi]

I still bet this deal will be blocked, you see so many negative reports about it.
The only people for it are APA, Qantas Senior Management ( by the huge bribe offered to them to support this deal, and the shareholders, who are really after quick money.

Wait till Parliment resumes on Monday, then the fun starts.

Anyway my views.