Qantas brand badly tarnished

[justinbrett]

Well….. I have no evidence to the contrary, but I seem to recall having read in the past that the party providing you access pays. If you’re entering by cabin entitlement then the operating carrier pays. If you’re entering by status, the FF airline pays.

You are probably referring to this article which has proven to be incorrect:

Behind the Scenes: Who's Paying Whom for Airport Lounge Access

Whenever you enter an airport lounge, a transaction is taking place behind the scenes. Somebody is paying the lounge operator.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Corrected here:

Rewarding Long Term Frequent Flyer Loyalty

The thing is.. you would go to the airport when not flying just to use a QC or J lounge? I've heard of someone who used to do exactly that. Friday night drinks at the airport. Often with guests in tow. It wouldn't surprise me if blatant abuse like this is part of why QF is probably never...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Think about it - what you're suggesting is unviable. If you gain QF status with the minimum 4 flights (say SYD-MEL) but fly around the world on other oneworld airlines to get WP - QF would have to pay for each time you flew with another oneworld carrier - it would make a massive loss.

Alternatively, if the carrier you are flying pays your lounge fee, they've received money to carry you and can absorb the cost. By recognising your status they are attracting additional passengers who might otherwise fly with another airline.

 

[Melburnian1]

You don't have much choice domestically - people go with whoever has routes and capacity. VA had to give up it's leased aircraft and sold others, the fact they they are anywhere near QF is laughable (for Qantas).

International numbers would be more interesting - where I believe SQ is leading.

SCM, you're correct.

This what the Commonwealth Government's BITRE had to say re April 2022:

In terms of passenger carriage, Singapore Airlines had the largest share of the market
in April 2022 with 17.9 per cent of the total followed by Qantas Airways with 15.7 per
cent, Air New Zealand with 11.1 per cent, Emirates with 10.0 per cent and Qatar
Airways with 6.8 per cent.
- The Qantas group – Qantas Airways, Jetstar (6.0 per cent) and Jetstar Asia (0.3 per
cent) accounted for 22.0 per cent of total passenger carriage in April 2022. The group’s
share was 20.1 per cent in April 2021 and 26.5 per cent in April 2019...

---------------

It's amazing that SQ leads given it doesn't serve, or requires roundabout connections to/from, numerous destinations that QFi does. Is it practical to use SQ to SIN to go to NOU, or AKL/CHC/WLG?

As more routes return, one would expect QFi's and JQi's combined share of passengers to rise, but it is unlikely to exceed 33 per cent.

For instance, QFi isn't flying to/from Japan, as the vast majority of Australians cannot travel to that nation, and may not be able to do so for a while. Competitors JL and NH are flying, presumably existing largely on Japanese citizens' patronage.

So most international air users in and out of Oz don't choose the Qantas Group.

 

[Zanzara]

SCM, you're correct.

This what the Commonwealth Government's BITRE had to say re April 2022:

In terms of passenger carriage, Singapore Airlines had the largest share of the market
in April 2022 with 17.9 per cent of the total followed by Qantas Airways with 15.7 per
cent, Air New Zealand with 11.1 per cent, Emirates with 10.0 per cent and Qatar
Airways with 6.8 per cent.
- The Qantas group – Qantas Airways, Jetstar (6.0 per cent) and Jetstar Asia (0.3 per
cent) accounted for 22.0 per cent of total passenger carriage in April 2022. The group’s
share was 20.1 per cent in April 2021 and 26.5 per cent in April 2019...

---------------

It's amazing that SQ leads given it doesn't serve, or requires roundabout connections to/from, numerous destinations that QFi does. Is it practical to use SQ to SIN to go to NOU, or AKL/CHC/WLG?

As more routes return, one would expect QFi's and JQi's combined share of passengers to rise, but it is unlikely to exceed 33 per cent.

For instance, QFi isn't flying to/from Japan, as the vast majority of Australians cannot travel to that nation, and may not be able to do so for a while. Competitors JL and NH are flying, presumably existing largely on Japanese citizens' patronage.

So most international air users in and out of Oz don't choose the Qantas Group.

Unless QF lift their game dramatically, they are likely to continue to loose market share. Hopefully they don't become a domestic only airline with perhaps a handful of routes to nearby Pacific islands where they can serve profitably thanks to subsidises.

 

[Cognac]

SCM, you're correct.

This what the Commonwealth Government's BITRE had to say re April 2022:

In terms of passenger carriage, Singapore Airlines had the largest share of the market
in April 2022 with 17.9 per cent of the total followed by Qantas Airways with 15.7 per
cent, Air New Zealand with 11.1 per cent, Emirates with 10.0 per cent and Qatar
Airways with 6.8 per cent.
- The Qantas group – Qantas Airways, Jetstar (6.0 per cent) and Jetstar Asia (0.3 per
cent) accounted for 22.0 per cent of total passenger carriage in April 2022. The group’s
share was 20.1 per cent in April 2021 and 26.5 per cent in April 2019...

---------------

It's amazing that SQ leads given it doesn't serve, or requires roundabout connections to/from, numerous destinations that QFi does. Is it practical to use SQ to SIN to go to NOU, or AKL/CHC/WLG?

As more routes return, one would expect QFi's and JQi's combined share of passengers to rise, but it is unlikely to exceed 33 per cent.

For instance, QFi isn't flying to/from Japan, as the vast majority of Australians cannot travel to that nation, and may not be able to do so for a while. Competitors JL and NH are flying, presumably existing largely on Japanese citizens' patronage.

So most international air users in and out of Oz don't choose the Qantas Group.

That makes sense. According to the ABS it looks like about 50% of arrivals into Australia are non-citizens (it varies throughout the year depending on season). I imagine that the majority of foreign arrivals are probably not using Qantas (whether because they are chasing fares, or members of other loyalty programs). And then even within Australian citizens, Qantas would be far from a monopoly (for the same reasons).

Overseas Travel Statistics, Provisional, June 2021

Provisional statistics on international travel based on initial border crossings, arriving in and departing from Australia, including tourism trips

www.abs.gov.au

Certainly interesting that SQ tops the list though.

 

[OATEK]

That makes sense. According to the ABS it looks like about 50% of arrivals into Australia are non-citizens (it varies throughout the year depending on season). I imagine that the majority of foreign arrivals are probably not using Qantas (whether because they are chasing fares, or members of other loyalty programs). And then even within Australian citizens, Qantas would be far from a monopoly (for the same reasons).

Overseas Travel Statistics, Provisional, June 2021

Provisional statistics on international travel based on initial border crossings, arriving in and departing from Australia, including tourism trips

www.abs.gov.au

Certainly interesting that SQ tops the list though.

Agree that while QANTAS might dominate the Australian based flyers, few from ME, UK/EU or Asia would see it as the go-to airline.

SQ has the closest major hub, and I can see why it would attract not only Asian pax but those from EU/UK etc and provide strong competition for ME airlines.

The QANTAS brand is being badly damaged here, just as the BA brand has been in the UK. But the general public here will soon forget, just as Brits still fly BA even though they are so much closer to the LCCs.

 

[ozflier]

It may be tarnished but it is still the market leader.


Passengers are obviously still flocking to Qantas in droves.

I wonder how many are just trying to use up their accumulated points before there is another QFF program "enhancement"!

 

[justinbrett]

I wonder how many are just trying to use up their accumulated points before there is another QFF program "enhancement"!

Considering QF cap seats available for points redemptions on each flight, a very small minority.

 

[Zanzara]

Agree that while QANTAS might dominate the Australian based flyers, few from ME, UK/EU or Asia would see it as the go-to airline.

SQ has the closest major hub, and I can see why it would attract not only Asian pax but those from EU/UK etc and provide strong competition for ME airlines.

The QANTAS brand is being badly damaged here, just as the BA brand has been in the UK. But the general public here will soon forget, just as Brits still fly BA even though they are so much closer to the LCCs.

The management of BA & QF are very similar and follow the same ethos. Champion being a full service airline, whilst adopting LCC principles and cutting to the bone. So, in reality, there are no actual staff or capable systems to actually provide any credible level of expected advertised service.

 

[dajop]

SCM, you're correct.


- The Qantas group – Qantas Airways, Jetstar (6.0 per cent) and Jetstar Asia (0.3 per
cent) accounted for 22.0 per cent of total passenger carriage in April 2022.

Qantas group just pipped the SIA group - SQ + Scoot - by 1430 pax, the combined carried 21.9%.

 

[Franky]

That makes sense. According to the ABS it looks like about 50% of arrivals into Australia are non-citizens (it varies throughout the year depending on season). I imagine that the majority of foreign arrivals are probably not using Qantas (whether because they are chasing fares, or members of other loyalty programs). And then even within Australian citizens, Qantas would be far from a monopoly (for the same reasons).

Overseas Travel Statistics, Provisional, June 2021

Provisional statistics on international travel based on initial border crossings, arriving in and departing from Australia, including tourism trips

www.abs.gov.au

Certainly interesting that SQ tops the list though.

I think that's been the case for quite a while. SQ has had 4, and occasionally 5 flights per day between PER-SIN, whilst QF only had 2, and it would seem to be the same case for the rest of the country.

 

[Speedbird001]

It may be tarnished but it is still the market leader.


Passengers are obviously still flocking to Qantas in droves.

I honestly think that the tide is turning for QF. It will no longer be able to command Loyalty or rely on direct revenue at premium pricing points due to consistently outrageous customer service issues. It is beginning to resemble BA AA rather than JL CX QR. I’m poised to ditch my [of course self-serving] loyalty because it’s now just a very expensive one way street.

 

[Quickstatus]

Fly B.F.O.D

 

[drron]

Things are tough when Steve Purvinas comments on proposed Industrial action with this line-

'We won't need to target holiday periods, Qantas seem to be doing a good enough job of ruining people's holiday's without our assistance.'

Chaos at Qantas as 1,000 engineers threaten to STRIKE

More than 1,000 Qantas and Jetstar engineers have threatened to strike, demanding a massive 12 per cent pay rise.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Franky]

Things are tough when Steve Purvinas comments on proposed Industrial action with this line-

Chaos at Qantas as 1,000 engineers threaten to STRIKE

More than 1,000 Qantas and Jetstar engineers have threatened to strike, demanding a massive 12 per cent pay rise.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Can't argue about that...

 

[ronlon]

I am not really sure where to post this. I have been away for 3.5 weeks and have started catching up on the various threads. I am gobsmacked to read all the recent terrible experiences such as seats cancelled by mistake, stranded passengers and other stressful situations. Time prevents me from responding to each thread so I send out a heartfelt gesture of support to all those who have been affected by the appalling service Qantas has dished out to its customers.

 

[Basalt]

You know there are deep-rooted problems when the flight staff are openly frustrated with Qantas - flew MEL-SYD the other day, called to board on time, then waited at the gate half an hour, then boarded rapidly (for a wide-body), all usual circumstance these days, but the CSM then announced "sorry folks, thank you for boarding so quickly but we're delayed another half an hour. The plane was late in. Baggage is late, everything is late. It's all just late". This was said in a resigned, almost just stuff it all tone of voice. You could tell the staff are just so over it.

And then the captain came down to the Y cabin, took the intercom phone and said "we don't normally come down here and talk to you but the plane is delayed another half an hour. Apparently it takes another half an hour to load baggage these days. I guess it's the new normal." Then he just shrugged, and looked at us apologetically and headed slowly back to the front.

 

[justinbrett]

You know there are deep-rooted problems when the flight staff are openly frustrated with Qantas - flew MEL-SYD the other day, called to board on time, then waited at the gate half an hour, then boarded rapidly (for a wide-body), all usual circumstance these days, but the CSM then announced "sorry folks, thank you for boarding so quickly but we're delayed another half an hour. The plane was late in. Baggage is late, everything is late. It's all just late". This was said in a resigned, almost just stuff it all tone of voice. You could tell the staff are just so over it.

And then the captain came down to the Y cabin, took the intercom phone and said "we don't normally come down here and talk to you but the plane is delayed another half an hour. Apparently it takes another half an hour to load baggage these days. I guess it's the new normal." Then he just shrugged, and looked at us apologetically and headed slowly back to the front.

The problems aren’t unique to Qantas. Just look around the world, even at the cancellations at VA and JQ. Travel is difficult right now.

 

[dk4]

...but the CSM then announced ...

And then the captain came down to the Y cabin, took the intercom phone and said...

You know, at least it's good honest communication about the situation, which I respect. ("Situation is ****, not much we can do about it, bare with us while we do the best we can.")

 

[UP4014]

Let's hope the new CEO in 2023 brings some positive vibe with him or her. Remember attitude and service starts with the leadership.

 

[Ade]

Hopefully they don't become a domestic only airline with perhaps a handful of routes to nearby Pacific islands

Nah, I don't think that will ever happen. The status of AU airline market is in such a position (& might continue to be) that there is no other AU based airline that operates international routes as much as QF does. The loyalty that QF had earned over the years will still draw people to fly QF regularly. Even if the travellers don't like to fly QF, employers will be expecting employees to choose a full service airline such as QF, if VA doesn't service the routes they are after. Also, given VA's track record of issues, route cancellations etc will make QF, although not liked/preferred, a trusted airline.

Being a "gold-handcuffed" WP with QF and OW-E, I don't have any other airlines that I'd prefer to fly other than QF. I may choose to fly QR or MH, but the gold handcuff pulls me back from flying with anyone else internationally.

Also, the destination I always fly to internationally is India, so BA/QR is a bit far fetched. With BA, I need to go to LHR and fly back to MAA. With QR, I need to go to DOH and fly back to MAA.

I stopped flying MH because their earn rates are pathetic ex-AU

I'd like to try the Q-suites one day. I will do so when there is some stability with partner reward seats. Being a self-funded international traveller, I can't afford to pay $6K for J seats on QR.

Domestically, I have warmed up to VA now. I will consider Rex, should they bring in the frequent flyer program.