Qantas Chaos [MEL 'iced' by cold - VA issues too]

[katiebell]

Standing in the MEL Business dom lounge (no seats left) waiting to find out if my flight is going.

Overnight icing has occurred, not infrequent for MEL and an acceptable part of flying. The real problem is that there is no de-icing truck in MEL this morning so we are waiting for the sun to melt the ice (according to QF staff).

In addition, the delayed flights that have not departed are disappearing off the monitors once the departure time has passed so no way of monitoring the status of the flight other than on my own device.

Ice is not the problem: this is a common occurrence in MEL. The problems are: 1) QF do not have a de-icing truck in the middle of winter and 2) the monitors are worse than useless.

Not good enough Qantas!

 

[mannej]

Not good enough Qantas!

Looks like VA have the same issue at ADL currently http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ocity/beware-no-de-icing-equipment-69455.html

 

[marki]

Same same no seats and awful traffic Tullamarine Hwy

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Commom occurrence in Melbourne? Not at all.

 

[yld200]

Heard a knowledgeable aviation guy on 3aw this morning (Neil Hansford) talking about the issue at Melbourne airport this morning and he confirmed that it is not a common occurrence in Melbourne. He also says that it's not just a matter of not having the de-icing machine, they actually require some more infrastructure in order to use de-icing machinery because they use glycol as part of the de-icing process. The issue with this is that they need the correct ramps and drainage to prevent the glycol from going into any sewerage or storm water drains.

 

[alieninperth]

To add, it would be the airport that would have the de-icing machine, not QF, wouldn't it?

 

[UP4014]

To add, it would be the airport that would have the de-icing machine, not QF, wouldn't it?

Not always, an airline could easily buy the gear and train staff if they wanted, but how many days a decade would they use it?

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Not always, an airline could easily buy the gear and train staff if they wanted, but how many days a decade would they use it?

That's correct but I think most of the worlds airports have the airport operator doing all carriers, in the designated de-icing areas. Well that's how it seems when I've travelled through places like Montreal in winter.

And quite right, the sheer cost of it for using it for 1 or 2 mornings every couple of years, hmmm, no, it won't happen.

 

[JessicaTam]

QF do own a de-icing truck in MEL. Unfortunately they weren't able to get it going this morning.

There is a bit of discussion in the 'Ask the Pilot' and 'General QF Delays' threads about this.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

QF do own a de-icing truck in MEL. Unfortunately they weren't able to get it going this morning.

There is a bit of discussion in the 'Ask the Pilot' and 'General QF Delays' threads about this.

I dont see anyone confirming they own a de-icing truck in MEL on those threads, however I only had a quick glance.

This is not the first time that there has been ice related delays in Melbourne, but it is quite rare. Don't forget that this past weekend was the coldest for a couple of decades or something. It's just not routine and rarely a problem here.

 

[JessicaTam]

I dont see anyone confirming they own a de-icing truck in MEL on those threads, however I only had a quick glance.

This is not the first time that there has been ice related delays in Melbourne, but it is quite rare. Don't forget that this past weekend was the coldest for a couple of decades or something. It's just not routine and rarely a problem here.

We were advised by the Captain on boarding our flight this morning.

 

[RooFlyer]

I've observed de-icing a lot at Canadian airports - here are some pics from de-icing at Calgary but there the cold/snow/ice issue is an industrial strength one, as opposed to the cake frosting we get in Australia

I guess there must be smaller scale gear for lighter ice issues, but if you are going to de-ice then you would have to be prepared to do an A380 or B747 wing and tail, so the gear would still need to be a reasonable size. The capital cost and training costs would be substantial for what is only apparently needed a few days a year. The airport would buy / operate but the airlines could make the case, and contribute to the costs if worthwhile for them.

QF do own a de-icing truck in MEL. Unfortunately they weren't able to get it going this morning.

<snip>.

BTW at airports like Vancouver, where severe ice problems aren't common (for Canada), it usually takes them half a day to mobilise and get de-icing properly if there is a 'surprise' storm. The expression "You'd think it had never snowed here before" is on everyone's lips as they wait in the terminal for the schedule chaos to sort itself out.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

We were advised by the Captain on boarding our flight this morning.

Never seen it in use myself, not surprised they couldnt get it started if it exists, probably haven't used it in years.

 

[Happy Trails]

There were several PA announcements saying the de-icing truck had malfunctioned.
Notwithstanding that, I did see one QF aircraft being de-iced, presumably with some other equipment.

 

[Groundhog]

QF do own a de-icing truck in MEL. Unfortunately they weren't able to get it going this morning.

Maybe it was frozen?

Seriously, flying out of Mel tomorrow morning so hopefully a repeat occurrence is a non event

 

[JessicaTam]

Maybe it was frozen?

Seriously, flying out of Mel tomorrow morning so hopefully a repeat occurrence is a non event

Only getting down to about 7 tonight, so you should be fine.

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

I have seen the de-icing truck Qantas own in Melbourne but in many years of living here cannot remember a single time it's been required. The past few days have been very cold by normal standards. What did Virgin do this morning?

 

[katiebell]

It is not the first time I have been at MEL with aircraft needing de-icing. Frost and icing temperatures are common in MEL in winter but, as happened on Monday morning, once the sun is able to warm the aircraft the icing issue is solved. The morning was not that cold and the temperature on the display opposite Essendon Airport was not that low for a MEL winter.

Re ownership of the de-icing truck: if it was owned by the airport then QF would have been clearly blaming the airport (as all airlines seem to do when something is not right and they think that they can get away with it). It was quite clearly a QF bit of kit.

In addition to the delays, the monitors in the QF bus. lounge did not show delayed aircraft once the departure time had passed. It might look good to other pax if there are not a lot of delayed flights, it is really unhelpful to pax who want to monitor their flight, especially as the PA was unintelligible at the back of the overcrowded lounge, another fact well known to QF staff.

Perhaps someone could explain why flights to the same destination on the same aircraft type did not leave in sequential order. To put it another way, the B737 flights MEL-SYD did not leave in sequence: they left with the original flight number assigned to the aircarft in advance and the earliest flights most severely delayed. This meant that if the aircraft had overnighted in MEL the flight was very delayed whilst flights scheduled for later departures but on aircraft that flew into MEL were less delayed and left before the flights with an earlier scheduled departure time. As the aircraft have the same seating configuration why not just alter the flight number? (I experienced a worse version of this in BNE after a thunderstorm when my MEL-bound aircraft suddenly morphed into the SYD aircraft [I know this to be true because the plane was at the gate and suddenly that gate was the SYD flight and the MEL flight was suddenly delayed by an extra 2hrs and leaving from another gate])

 

[TomVexille]

Airports like PIT have massive de-icing pads where the equipment is like a series of fixed cranes. Yet at other snow prone airports like ORD, all the de-icing is done with trucks owned by the airlines.

 

[Boris spatsky]

Perhaps someone could explain why flights to the same destination on the same aircraft type did not leave in sequential order. To put it another way, the B737 flights MEL-SYD did not leave in sequence: they left with the original flight number assigned to the aircarft in advance and the earliest flights most severely delayed. This meant that if the aircraft had overnighted in MEL the flight was very delayed whilst flights scheduled for later departures but on aircraft that flew into MEL were less delayed and left before the flights with an earlier scheduled departure time. As the aircraft have the same seating configuration why not just alter the flight number? ])

The flight number affects all sorts of things. If you change it at short notice, you need to change the already lodged flightplan, tell catering, tell the refueller, tell ground ops for bags/gate assignment, tell rostering so they can amend all the crews rosters, re-arrange arrival slots with ATC (which is sometimes impossible at short notice) etc etc etc. i don't see why it matters to the passengers so much???