Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Flyerqf]

Major delays out of LAX on Thursday evening with QF12, 16 & 94 all delayed over 4 hours. Late arrivals into AU on Saturday morning will have a flow on to other services.

QF2 is also arriving into SYD on Sat morning with a delay over 4 hours.

 

[Melburnian1]

Major delays out of LAX on Thursday evening with QF12, 16 & 94 all delayed over 4 hours. Late arrivals into AU on Saturday morning will have a flow on to other services.

These delays appear to be because QF12 from JFK to LAX on Thursday 22 December departed at 2232 hours, four hours and 32 minutes (272 minutes) tardy, with arrival at 0136 hours on Friday 23 instead of 2055 on Thursday - 271 minutes late, which is the most unpunctual I can recall for some months (omitting at least once when this QF11-QF12 transcontinental USA rotation was cancelled.)

QF12 from LAX to SYD is estimated to arrive on Saturday 24 December at 1210 hours instead of 0830 - 220 minutes behind schedule.

QF94 is worse, with Saturday arrival estimated in MEL at 1310, four hours and 10 minutes (250 minutes) late. The Saturday 24 December MEL - LAX, the 1115 hours QF94 is predicted by the QF website to depart at 1400 hours but if it is the same aircraft that would be impossible - 1455 or later would be an estimate.

The LAX - BNE B744, QF16 should arrive on Saturday 24 at 1105, exactly four hours late. Instead of 1110, QF15 from BNE to LAX should depart at 1300 hours, which while pretty tight should be achievable.

QF7 from SYD to DFW does not appear to be operating on Saturday 24 December.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF2 is also arriving into SYD on Sat morning with a delay over 4 hours.

It looks to be arriving SYD on Saturday 24 December at about 1100, four and a half hours late - quite unusual lately for QF2.

QF11 from SYD on Saturday 24 December to LAX is not showing as delayed, presumably because the aircraft from QF8 ex DFW will form it.

 

[Flyerqf]

These delays appear to be because QF12 from JFK to LAX on Thursday 22 December departed at 2232 hours, four hours and 32 minutes (272 minutes) tardy, with arrival at 0136 hours on Friday 23 instead of 2055 on Thursday - 271 minutes late, which is the most unpunctual I can recall for some months (omitting at least once when this QF11-QF12 transcontinental USA rotation was cancelled.)

The issue started back on Thursday at BNE when QF15 departed at 15.35 (4.5 hrs late) and then that meant QF11 LAX-JFK sector didn't depart LAX until 13:00.

 

[Melburnian1]

The issue started back on Thursday at BNE when QF15 departed at 15.35 (4.5 hrs late) and then that meant QF11 LAX-JFK sector didn't depart LAX until 13:00.

If I recall correctly, on at least one day in 2016 QF11/QF12 were cancelled between LAX - JFK - LAX because QF15 was so late ex BNE. Interesting that this did not occur on Thursday 22 December but perhaps USA domestic airline seats (on AA) were at a premium just before Christmas so it would not be good to strand passengers in either LAX or JFK. And then there's crew to position...

 

[Flyerqf]

If I recall correctly, on at least one day in 2016 QF11/QF12 were cancelled between LAX - JFK - LAX because QF15 was so late ex BNE. Interesting that this did not occur on Thursday 22 December but perhaps USA domestic airline seats (on AA) were at a premium just before Christmas so it would not be good to strand passengers in either LAX or JFK. And then there's crew to position...

Yes given the time of year I'd say it would be hard to find capacity to rebook passengers from 11 and 12 if the LAX JFK LAX sectors were cancelled.

There will be a repeat of Thursday's delays on Saturday given it all starts with a delayed QF15....

 

[Flyerqf]

It looks to be arriving SYD on Saturday 24 December at about 1100, four and a half hours late - quite unusual lately for QF2.

QF11 from SYD on Saturday 24 December to LAX is not showing as delayed, presumably because the aircraft from QF8 ex DFW will form it.

QF2 ended up being cancelled and will now arrive on Christmas Day 24 hrs late

 

[jb747]

QF2 ended up being cancelled and will now arrive on Christmas Day 24 hrs late

It actually taxied, and got most of the way to the holding point before returning to blocks.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qf2#bf8652b

 

[Melburnian1]

Continuing with Saturday 24 December, QF422 (A332 VH-EBJ, the 1000 from MEL up to SYD) took off at 1113. Arrival is suggested as 1226, 61 late.

QF94 has lost a few more minutes; with A388 VH-OQI, it should arrive in MEL (ex LAX) at 1321 or so, four hours and 21 minutes tardy. With a lot of cooperation (including from recalcitrant passengers at the JohnPhelan Barrrr---) it could still get away at 1500 sharp for its QF93 MEL to LAX longhaul journey but that revised time is pretty tight.

Perhaps for QF7 (SYD - DFW) not to operate today was planned all along but given the delays affecting QF2 and QF12, it was fortuitous.

Apart from any repairs required to the A388 on the 24-hour delayed QF2 sitting in DXB, adequate crew rest would presumably be a major consideration as to what time it could be rescheduled.

 

[Flyerqf]

It actually taxied, and got most of the way to the holding point before returning to blocks.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qf2#bf8652b

Safety first as always. According to some passengers, the handling of the cancellation was rather poor. Some passengers were apparently asked to share hotel rooms.

 

[jb747]

Apart from any repairs required to the A388 on the 24-hour delayed QF2 sitting in DXB, adequate crew rest would presumably be a major consideration as to what time it could be rescheduled.

Don't forget to include the Sydney curfew in your calculations.

 

[Melburnian1]

Don't forget to include the Sydney curfew in your calculations.

Thank you jb747. Assuming that the aircraft had been repaired or whatever needed doing, if there was no seven hour SYD curfew (2300 to 0600 hours, although a very limited number - three or four in total if I recall - QF and BA international arrivals have an exemption to land from 0501 hours onwards for six months of the year due to northern hemisphere winter airline schedules) what would be the earliest a flight that had been delayed at DXB whose destination was SYD could depart if sufficient crew rest after the 'false start' (to use a racing term) was the only consideration?

Are we talking a minimum of a 15 hour delay - 12 hours rest plus the logistics of getting out of the airport, travelling to and from the hotel and travelling back to sign on? I am assuming that the same crew that was on the QF2 that 'tried' to depart DXB was the only one available, for purposes of the argument. In the real world the airline's crewing department may be very adept at switching crew around if they are 'cleared to fly.'

<redacted>

 

[Pushka]

We had a wonderful Christmas break in Dubai last year and the Christian celebrations much more festive than in Oz.
Just hoping there are no delays ADL - MEL - SIN on Qantas on Monday. Have a ship to catch the next day.

 

[jb747]

Thank you jb747. Assuming that the aircraft had been repaired or whatever needed doing, if there was no seven hour SYD curfew (2300 to 0600 hours, although a very limited number - three or four in total if I recall - QF and BA international arrivals have an exemption to land from 0501 hours onwards for six months of the year due to northern hemisphere winter airline schedules) what would be the earliest a flight that had been delayed at DXB whose destination was SYD could depart if sufficient crew rest after the 'false start' (to use a racing term) was the only consideration?

Such a flight would not be allowed to use the dispensation, and would have to arrive after 0600. So, you'd be looking at a Dubai departure time of about 0900 local...only about 35 minutes ahead of the next QF2.

Are we talking a minimum of a 15 hour delay - 12 hours rest plus the logistics of getting out of the airport, travelling to and from the hotel and travelling back to sign on?

That logistics time you are talking about comes out of the crew's rest period, not the duty, so it would be 12 hours for crew rest. But, that doesn't work, because it puts you into the curfew period.

I am assuming that the same crew that was on the QF2 that 'tried' to depart DXB was the only one available, for purposes of the argument. In the real world the airline's crewing department may be very adept at switching crew around if they are 'cleared to fly.'

They are extremely adept, but sometimes no matter how adroit, availability is tenuous. The obvious crew would be the QF2 for the following day, but no, they only get 24 hours on the ground, so they've just arrived. The crew from the 10 would have arrived earlier, and might be in a position to fly, but by the time their rest period expires, you're probably back to hitting the curfew. The crew from previous day's 1, might be usable, but then you'll need someone for the 9 that night. The previous day's 9 crew are meant to fly that day's 1, so the same issue. You can swap people, but the ripple effects are hard to imagine until you plug names into the scheduling computer. There may also be issues for some people with overall hours too (100 in 30, 30/40 in 7) and these will have to be individually assessed.

Cabin crew are an entirely different issue and could also be the limiting factor.

 

[Melburnian1]

Post #4256 is an outstanding - as in 'very good' - reply, especially the humour in how 'fixing' one flight's (flight) crewing issue leads to ramifications for the next flight.

Quite delightful (quaint in a nice way) that the flights are described as 'the 9' and so on.

The delay to QF2 is an example as to how limiting a seven hour curfew for the vast majority of passenger flights is in SYD. If we were to look at it in isolation, many might be tempted to say 'well not many passengers want to depart at 0245 hours from SYD or arrive at 0345' or 'there's still 17 hours of a 24 hour day available for these carriers - what are they complaining about?', but that misses the point which is that this longstanding curfew reduces (or removes) the flexibility of airlines to respond in the quickest way possible to getting their aircraft back on time after a delay (often elsewhere, as in this QF2 DXB case) has occurred.

MEL is a prime example of what is at least partly a competing airport that trades on its ability to offer flights at any part of the day or night. Look at how many departures there now are between 2230 and 0130 hours for overseas, particularly Asia and on to Europe via connections ex MEL.

 

[Melburnian1]

On Saturday 24 December, the delayed QF94 ended up arriving MEL at 1317 hours - 257 minutes late.

QF93, the 1115 hours MEL - LAX then pushed back at 1538 with arrival same day estimated at 1050 hours, 255 minutes (four and a quarter hours) delayed.

QF16 pulled into sunny BNE at 1123 this morning rather than 0705 hours, with it then forming (as usual), QF15 from BNE back to LAX that commenced pushback at 1356 instead of the scheduled 1110. Same day LAX arrival is suggested as 0835 rather than 0600.

The B744-operated QF11 across the USA (the continuation of the BNE - LAX QF15) is still showing as departing on time at 0820 hours (Saturday 24) which is not possible. Are this and the return USA transcontinental working QF16 cancelled, a strategy QF sometimes employs to try to get the flights back to Oz overnight ex LAX on time.

Also on 24 December, QF27 from SYD for the long trip to SCL departed at 1318, 28 minutes late with arrival suggested as 1140, half an hour behind schedule.

QF582 (1330 hours PER - SYD that took off at 1451, B738 VH-XZG) should arrive at approximately 2147 hours, 67 minutes late.

UPDATE: The continuation of QF15, QF11 on Saturday 24 December has a revised 120 minute late departure time of 1020 from LAX - possible but maybe a tad unrealistic - with
estimated JFK arrival of 1750, 80 minutes late.

QF12 from JFK to LAX on 24 December remains showing on the QF website as departing at 1800 (on time), a 10 minute turnaround that would be possible if it were a suburban train, tram, bus or ferry but since it is a B744 - I think not.

 

[Melburnian1]

The Christmas Eve QF11 ended up departing from LAX at 1100 (160 late) rather than the 1020 hours most recently forecast above. It has just arrived at JFK at 1834, 124 minutes late.

Provided normal working applies, QF93 from MEL to LAX on Monday 26 December will be delayed, as may be - emphasis on 'may' - QF15 ex BNE for the same TransPacific destination.

The Christmas Day QF796 from MEL up to ASP (the 0930 hours, B738 VH-VZC) took off at 1039; arrival should be at around 1134, 44 minutes tardy.

 

[JessicaTam]

[mod hat]
Non QF delay related posts have been removed
[/mod hat]

 

[jb747]

Provided normal working applies, QF93 from MEL to LAX on Monday 26 December will be delayed, as may be - emphasis on 'may' - QF15 ex BNE for the same TransPacific destination.

This is a prediction. You've said previously that the 94 does not usually await a late arrival from JFK, to ensure that the 93 isn't delayed, and also to minimise the chance of any crew duty time issues. I wouldn't expect loadings on Xmas day to be all that heavy.

 

[Quickstatus]

23 December was a horrid day at LAX. Meteorological nothing much to speak of.
But totally chaotic on the ground. Many flights delayed more than 4 hours. ATC issues according to pilots flying. It all started in the morning and continued into the evening.

When LAX is disrupted, other airports get affected because LAX ATC have to give clearance for flights coming into LAX arrival clearance. My LAX bound flight departing DEN sat at a remote stand at DEN so it was close to the runway and waited for 1 hour or so with power from the APC.

Some flights departing LAX were delayed but then left earlier than revised departure time because they managed to slip into an earlier slot - meaning that some passengers were caught out as they thought the flight as displayed on the board was leaving at xx:xx time but actually the flight left 15 min earlier. Then these stranded pax had to be rebooked. Obviously they had no checked luggage

Multiple flights had multiple gate changes resulting in passengers doing musical chairs and some standby passengers missing their standby seat because they were not at the gate when their name was called because they were waiting at the prior correct gate before it was changed without notice. Keep looking at the screens they were told but the screens update were silent.

In the meantime in the same day there was a 1.5 hour Ground Stop at SFO between 1200 and 1330 due to heavy rain causing local tarmac flooding causing issues for smaller aircraft.

It appeared that QF12 transcontinental was not severely delayed