Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[docjames]

QF459 (A332 VH-EBD) took off at 12836, arriving MEL 10 minutes late at 1945, so 'on time' according to the 15 minute allowance. However on Thursday night it had been cancelled, on Wednesday it was 27 late arriving at the gate in Melbourne, and on Friday night, 34 late. Count yourself fortunate. These three others were all B738s.

Interestingly, only went at 28,000ft and then mid-journey slowed dramatically to a ground speed of under 700kph whereas other Syd-Mel flights were over 800kph and at 34-38000ft - looked on flight radar like it was going to be a sequencing issue into Mel if they continued low and “fast”.

Take off to the south off 16R and landing from the north into Mel also no doubt helped make up time.

 

[Melburnian1]

In more on Sunday 24 February, A388 VH-OQE on the 0930 hours SYD - HKG daily, QF127, departed at 1044 and was airborne at 1109 hours. Arrival should be at about 1700 hours, 70 late.

'The 79' (A333 VH-QPI) departed MEL 53 late at 1023 with NRT arrival this evening suggested as 1843 hours, 63 late.

This will delay QF80, the 1920 hours NRT - MEL to at least 1955.

QF117 was delayed yesterday but is worse on Sunday, with pushback in SYD expected as 1750 hours, two hours late and consequently HKG arrival at 0020 hours on Monday 25, 125 late. QF108, the twho hour late arrival from PEK is forming QF117.

This will put back QF118, the redeye back down to SYD from a 2335 blocks off to around 0135 if all goes well in the turnaround.

 

[Melburnian1]

Also on Sunday 24, the 1120 hours BNE - LAX QF15 B789 has been delayed by a predicted 85 minutes in its departure, meaning same day arrival at 0715 hours, 75 late.

 

[Melburnian1]

The 1940 hours PER - LHR, QF9 on Saturday 23 February 2019 departed uneventfully at 1941 but subsequently diverted to VIE, the first time it has been to this airport as far as I am aware. The stop there on Sunday 24 was from 0540 (1540 AEDT). B789 VH-ZNC has yet to depart VIE for LHR.

Was this due to a need to refuel, or for a failure or medical reason?

QF10 has a buffer in London as it is not scheduled to push back until 1155 hours local time at Heathrow (2255 hours AEDT).

 

[docjames]

Wow that’ll be inconvenient. Will the crew have sufficient hours to get to LHR?

 

[Melburnian1]

Wow that’ll be inconvenient. Will the crew have sufficient hours to get to LHR?

One would think not, as 20 hours is the outer limit. IIRC, the extension from 18 hours is at a flight crew's discretion.

The flight time alone from PER to VIE (excluding taxiing at either end, and crew sign on and sign off times on the ground) was 16 hours 54 minutes if my maths is correct.

QF10 is still showing as punctual, but the QF website usually does not show amended times for a following flight until the aircraft forming it is at cruising altitude on the inbound flight.

Unsuspecting QF10 passengers may well be in for a shock, delay wide. If QF2 and the numerous EK flights are heavily booked ex LHR that's a problem of no large numbers of spare seats quickly available, although thankfully the B789 has only half the passenger capacity of what was the previous A388 on QF10. It's not as troublesome as looking for 450 spare seats on other flights to SIN, DXB and so on.

It may also mean an aircraft change on the PER - MEL leg of QF10 on Monday 25 if the flight is not cancelled domestically, and perhaps cancellation of QF95 from MEL to LHR on Monday 25, the late night 2220 hours.

 

[Melburnian1]

I...Sunday 24 February...QF117...pushback in SYD expected as 1750 hours, two hours late and consequently HKG arrival at 0020 hours on Monday 25, 125 late. QF108, the two hour late arrival from PEK is forming QF117....

QF117 (A333 VH-QPE) departed at 1808 and took off at 1823 so HKG arrival should be at 0027 hours on Monday 25, 192 minutes tardy.

B738 VH-VZS on QF451 (1715 hours SYD - MEL) took off at 1747, only about 17 - 20 late, but arrived MEL at 1928 hours, 38 late as it approached from the west, landing on runway 09, tracking via Pascoe Vale, Parwan (near Melton) and Burnside, adding minutes to the journey.

 

[jb747]

Interestingly, only went at 28,000ft and then mid-journey slowed dramatically to a ground speed of under 700kph whereas other Syd-Mel flights were over 800kph and at 34-38000ft - looked on flight radar like it was going to be a sequencing issue into Mel if they continued low and “fast”.

Take off to the south off 16R and landing from the north into Mel also no doubt helped make up time.

When you're trying to make up time, it generally works best to go low on the Sydney-Melbourne route, as there are mostly headwinds, and high on the Melbourne - Sydney.

 

[Melburnian1]

The 1940 hours PER - LHR, QF9 on Saturday 23 February 2019 departed uneventfully at 1941 but subsequently diverted to VIE, the first time it has been to this airport as far as I am aware. The stop there on Sunday 24 was from 0540 (1540 AEDT). B789 VH-ZNC has yet to depart VIE for LHR...

Some websites suggest this aircraft did not divert to VIE; others (including Qantas' own site) suggest it diverted and is still in VIE. If it was an error on the QF website, it's unusual in that it's not been corrected for a few hours.

Do we have any travellers (or QF staff like milehighclub) who can confirm one or the other?

 

[jb747]

The 1940 hours PER - LHR, QF9 on Saturday 23 February 2019 departed uneventfully at 1941 but subsequently diverted to VIE, the first time it has been to this airport as far as I am aware. The stop there on Sunday 24 was from 0540 (1540 AEDT). B789 VH-ZNC has yet to depart VIE for LHR.

Was this due to a need to refuel, or for a failure or medical reason?

QF10 has a buffer in London as it is not scheduled to push back until 1155 hours local time at Heathrow (2255 hours AEDT).

Did it actually divert? Both Flight Aware and FR24 seem to show completed tracks to London.

London forecast:
TAF AMD EGLL 240256Z 2402/2506 13005KT 6000 NSC
TEMPO 2402/2409 3000 BR
PROB30 2405/2409 0300 FG VV///
BECMG 2409/2412 CAVOK
BECMG 2418/2421 6000
PROB40 2421/2506 3000 BR=

One would think not, as 20 hours is the outer limit. IIRC, the extension from 18 hours is at a flight crew's discretion.

The flight time alone from PER to VIE (excluding taxiing at either end, and crew sign on and sign off times on the ground) was 16 hours 54 minutes if my maths is correct.

If the 787 ever diverts within Europe that will be the end of the flight for that crew. Recovery will be interesting to watch.

 

[oz_mark]

Some websites suggest this aircraft did not divert to VIE; others (including Qantas' own site) suggest it diverted and is still in VIE. If it was an error on the QF website, it's unusual in that it's not been corrected for a few hours.

Do we have any travellers (or QF staff like milehighclub) who can confirm one or the other?

The Qantas website seems to suggest it left VIE before it got there. Not sure what the story is.

 

[docjames]

Perhaps the divert was planned then cancelled? Medical event then deterioration / no benefit in divert and proceeded to LHR.

I suspect without being on board we may never know.

If you look at the FR24 data they slowed to a ground speed under 650kph over the emairates region, perhaps they thought they’d need to divert, hit planned to VIE, then realised they’d pick up enough speed/had enough fuel they could continue to LHR.

Wonder what the forecast in London area was at the time? Fog?

 

[milehighclub]

I don't see any signs of a diversion

 

[Melburnian1]

I don't see any signs of a diversion

Thanks milehighclub.

The Qantas website still hasn't been corrected. Burrowing into FlightStats' site, it seems the diversion was indicated some hours prior, but - unrecorded - it must have been cancelled.

So it looks to be just a mistake on the QF site that being a primary information source means other sites then repeat any error.

I am mystified as to why someone at QF hasn't spotted the website error and said 'hang on, that aircraft didn't divert.'

 

[Quickstatus]

Wonder what the forecast in London area was at the time? Fog?

The TAF supplied by JB747 translated:

Valid Sunday 24Feb 0200 -0600 Zulu (GMT = LHR local time) reported at 0256Zulu

Marginal VFR conditions Visibility 3.7sm Wind 130deg @ 5kts (initial weather)
VFR conditions temporary 0200-0900hrs
...Except that
LIFR (low instrument flight rules) Visibility about 300m Wind calm (0500-0900hr)
...then becoming
VFR conditions visibility 6 sm Wind calm (0900-1200hr)

(I think)

At the time the TAF was reported I believe the aircraft was overflying Bucharest. It overflew south of VIE about 50 minutes later at 0350 UTC. Landed in LHR at 0543 UTC (local time).
(Using flightradar24)

Gate 5 is open for the return QF10 at Terminal 3 = no diversion

I was looking forward to see how the airline would recover a diverted 787 and crew in Europe

 

[OATEK]

Looks like QF9 arrived ok:

 

[Melburnian1]

Thanks OATEK. Heathrow Airport's was one of the websites I'd examined and subsequently raised the question.

QF's programmers still haven't fixed the apparent error. Have a look at QF9 (ex PER Sat, not today) on its 'flight status' page.

 

[jb747]

I don't have a copy of the MELs any more, but I didn't think the effect was that bad. It's one door out of eight, and yet that blockage is half of the seats. I'll see if I can find the actual MEL.

Ok, well the actual 787 MEL does block out all of economy if there are issues with either door 4.

 

[Melburnian1]

Ok, well the actual 787 MEL does block out all of economy if there are issues with either door 4.

Thanks!

 

[jb747]

Perhaps the divert was planned then cancelled? Medical event then deterioration / no benefit in divert and proceeded to LHR.

I suspect without being on board we may never know.

If you look at the FR24 data they slowed to a ground speed under 650kph over the emairates region, perhaps they thought they’d need to divert, hit planned to VIE, then realised they’d pick up enough speed/had enough fuel they could continue to LHR.

Wonder what the forecast in London area was at the time? Fog?

I doubt that medical had anything to do with it.

Given the forecast, my take would be that the aircraft left Perth without sufficient fuel to fulfil the requirements of the forecast. It would have required an actual alternate, which itself would have needed decent weather. Ultra long haul ops are marginal in any adverse weather conditions.

One way around it might have been to plan to actually go to Vienna (though I'm surprised at that choice), and then to refile in flight if the weather improved enough to allow your actual fuel to become legal. Planned a long way out, you could also preposition a crew...though if that's what happened, it will make a mess of the crew slips in London.