Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Melburnian1]

I think they can match the luggage tags to a specific container.
I dont think I have ever seen a slpash and dash on a 747 or 380 with retrieval of luggage under 1 hour...

Agree: others have told me baggage handlers know which ULD a passenger's luggage is in. My point was however that it might not be in the ones closest to the scissor lift.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF63 has just changed to show an amended departure from MEL of 1540 hours with JNB same day arrival expected at 1945 hours, 165 minutes late. This will put QF64 tonight back to a changed pushback at 2130 or later ex JNB.

UPDATE: The diverted QF63 pushed back in MEL at 1546 hours.

FURTHER UPDATE: 'The 63' had a longish wait at the holding point as there was a stream of arriving 'traffic' from the north, so it was airborne at 1617 hours. QF is forecasting it to arrive at 2025 hours, 205 minutes tardy, so expect 'the 64' to depart tonight South African time at around 2220 or later, so at least 190 minutes late. SYD arrival on Monday 3 is predicted at 1810, 195 late, but still OK to form QF25 to HND on time at 2050 hours.

 

[jb747]

Certainly the approaches into LHR do not tend to include holding patterns even for flights with delayed departure from SIN

You must be talking about a different London to the one that I flew to... QF9 possibly avoids it because it arrives in the early curfew dispensation period. But QF1 does not, and one or two runs around the pattern at Lambourne are standard.

I can't remember the last time I arrived there, on any of the flights, without some level of holding.

Speed control, as well as track mile variations, are applied as well. But you'll normally get all three...speed, track, and holding.

 

[Quickstatus]

yes I should have added “recently” but thanks for the info

 

[jb747]

QF63, the 1055 hours SYD - JNB on Sunday 2 June got to southwest of Hobart after departing at 1111 hours and taking off at 1124, but has diverted to MEL. landing at 1359 hours. B744 VH-OEE is the B744. So it should be at the international terminal at about 1404.

With such a diversion would the aircraft also have to be topped up (the famous Quickstatus 'splash and dash?') Pilot duty time hopefully won't be an issue.

It will be nothing like a 'splash and dash'. The splash bit means that you don't need much fuel...that won't be the case here.

Pilot crew time could potentially be an issue. By my maths the duty period would now be beyond the norm, but still within what the crew (not the company) can extend to. Having said that, it would be extremely unlikely for them not to extend.

A Splash and Dash wont take long. The takeoff, diversion and landing used perhaps 5t for takeoff, 25t for the time in the air, 2 t for approach and landing. = 37T??

And which limit are you failing to account for?

A pilot will be about to give a more accurate estimate.

Yes, but he's going to try to draw it out of you.

Now that it is in MEL, the overall required fuel will be less than if starting from SYD, maybe 1hr less cruise fuel. So maybe needs to uplift 20-25T?. Does the aircraft need to uplift that fuel?.

One hour less cruise would be about right. So, that means the fuel order out of Melbourne will be roughly 10 tonnes less than it was out of Sydney.

As a passenger on a flight which takes the aircraft as far south as the outskirts of the Antartica, I would hope the aircraft departs with full fuel. I hate range anxiety.

Well, as you don't ever know the fuel order, why would you have range anxiety? There is no way the aircraft left Sydney or Melbourne with full fuel. In fact, my guess would be that it left Sydney with about 30 tonnes under MTOW....and about the same level under max fuel capacity.

I suspect the rate limiting step in these cases would be in the Flight deck going through the preflight checklists, fuel calculations, resubmission of flightplan and other paperwork. The retrieval of the sick passenger AND their luggage and the refuelling should be don before then.

The crew aren't doing a 'cold start' of the coughpit...that won't take long at all. Flight and fuel plan are done remotely, and any required adjustment to the fuel plan could be arranged before landing. Getting the passenger(s) and luggage will be the most likely bottleneck.

Bear in mind the sick passenger may be travelling with another person/s and if everyone in the party/family decides to also get off, their luggage will also need to be offloaded.

Yes.

Unfortunately, no guarantee that the passenger's (plus family's?) luggage will be in the first lot of ULDs (containers) unloaded. Then some poor sod has to possibly pull out lots of other suitcases and backpacks to retrieve said items.

Also yes.

By the way, 25 + 5 + 2 = 32 not 37 tonnes, but you may have cleverly added another five tonnes of fuel for the forthcoming takeoff from not so sunny MEL.

Well, my guess for the fuel would be an upload of about 90 tonnes.

 

[Melburnian1]

As sometimes occurs, QF has altered its estimate for the diverted QF63, suggesting JNB arrival on Sunday 2 June will be 2035, so the chances of a 2220 hours pushback for QF64 back overnight to SYD were just made a little more difficult if the latest arrival prediction holds true.

FR24 estimates landing (not arrival) at 2105 but particularly with longer flights, it often overestimates delays. One might think its feeds from receivers would reflect the latest information, but accuracy seems questionable.

 

[Quickstatus]

And which limit are you failing to account for?

One hour less cruise would be about right. So, that means the fuel order out of Melbourne will be roughly 10 tonnes less than it was out of Sydney.



Well, as you don't ever know the fuel order, why would you have range anxiety? There is no way the aircraft left Sydney or Melbourne with full fuel. In fact, my guess would be that it left Sydney with about 30 tonnes under MTOW....and about the same level under max fuel capacity.



The crew aren't doing a 'cold start' of the coughpit...that won't take long at all. Flight and fuel plan are done remotely, and any required adjustment to the fuel plan could be arranged before landing. Getting the passenger(s) and luggage will be the most likely bottleneck.

Well, my guess for the fuel would be an upload of about 90 tonnes.

Yes the difference between MTOW and Max landing weight which if I recall correctly in the -ER is about 110-120T

The uplift should have also included the fuel dump to reduce landing weight.

I hate range anxiety

 

[Melburnian1]

QF1, the 1555 hours SYD - SIN - LHR is not often an hour late ex SYD but on Sunday 2 June it was off blocks at 1713. The SIN intermediate stop is projected as 2330 to (Monday 3) 0100 (the latter being 65 late) with LHR arrival suggested as 0730 hours, also 65 late.'

The 1740 hours SYD - SFO QF73 was earlier showing as punctual but is delayed to a predicted 1900 hours.

 

[jb747]

Yes the difference between MTOW and Max landing weight which if I recall correctly in the -ER is about 110-120T

The uplift should have also included the fuel dump to reduce landing weight.

Well done.

Pilots never think about it as being the difference between two weights. The aircraft would have had a limiting weight out of Sydney that would be the lessor of, MTOW, performance limit, or MLW plus burn off. I expect it would have been MTOW today. Most likely the TOW would have been in the order of 370 tonnes. So, burn 20-25 tonnes to go Sydney-Tasmania-Melbourne, and you’re at 345 tonnes. MLW is about 285 tonnes...so you’re 60 tonnes over the max. You know that you’re going to be too heavy, so you start the dump immediately, without worrying about working out the actual numbers. You’ll have time to do that whilst it’s happening.

I’m not sure why they flew at FL200. At that level the pressurisation system can bring the aircraft back to sea level, so perhaps that was a factor. You can also carry some power against speedbrake, and burn fuel as well as dumping it.

I hate range anxiety

So do I, but mostly I had to live with it, and just keep the options open as best I could. I guess you won’t be buying an EV any time soon.

 

[Melburnian1]

In more on Sunday 2 June, QF777, the nicely numbered 1720 hours MEL - PER took off at 1826. Arrival for B738 VH-VZP should be at about 2014 hours, 44 minutes tardy.

QF1585 (B717 VH-NXQ, the evening 1920 hours SYD - HBA up up and away at 2023) looks to be arriving at about 2200 hours tonight, 40 late.

 

[Quickstatus]

I gather there was a medical emergency on board. (For the benefit of an AFFer who said these are not as numerous as I think, I have independently confirmed this one).

I looked this up.

Apparently it’s about 1:15000-1:50000 passengers have an acute medical event.

Translating to 1:38-1:125 747 flights if every flight was a 400 seat 747.

Not that common

Princess Leia (Carrie Fisher) has an irretrievable inflight cardiac arrest.

 

[Melburnian1]

The diverted QF63 (via MEL) arrived JNB at 2025 hours on Sunday 2 June, 205 minutes late. QF64 did not gain any time on the ground, pushing back at 2217 hours (187 late: 0617 AEST) with Monday 3 SYD arrival suggested as 1803 hours early this evening, 188 late.

'The 73' on Sunday was off blocks in SYD at 1908, 88 late so SFO arrival is estimated as 1525, 85 late.

Sunday night's QF24 departed BKK half an hour behind at 1840, arriving SYD on Monday at 07659, 34 late.

QF23, the worst A332/A333 flight for timekeeping, is predicted to depart SYD on Monday 95 late at 1125 with BKK arrival 1805, 85 late. It is being formed by QF130 from PVG that pushed back at 2110, 80 late. Arrival in SYD is displaying as 0932, 67 late. 113 minutes allowed to turn around an A333 is not best practice, but SYD is busy for international flights in the morning so the slower anticipated time may reflect that.

QF24 tonight back as the redeye to SYD will be tardy. Just why this QF offering has so much difficulty departing Sydney in a timely fashion when other similarly timed A332/A333 departures to Asia are not consistently as bad is a mystery. It can be late even when the inbound forming it is not. While some passengers will be connecting from many Australian domestic airports (including BNE and MEL), that's also true for some other morning QF departures such as 'the 33' to KIX or 'the 129' to PVG.

The SYD - LHR via SIN QF1 A388 was tardy ex SYD on Sunday as noted above. The SIN stop became 2344 to 0124 hours (the latter today - Monday 3 - and 89 late) with LHR arrival likely at 0832, 127 late.

 

[Melburnian1]

On more on Monday 3 June, QF403 (B738 VH-VZR, the 0645 hours morning SYD down to MEL airborne at 0725) should pull in to its arrival gate at 0851, 31 late.

Opposite number QF402 creditably departed MEL at 0742, three minutes early with B738 VH-VYJ but that's where the music stopped. It did not become airborne until 0827 so the result is suggested SYD arrival at 0949 hours, 39 late. There's much rain around MEL.

Although B738 VH-VZZ departed the terminal at 0724, only nine minutes late on QF133 from MEL to CHC, it did not take off until 0837 so is likely to be 66 late (1341 hours) late into the Shaky Isles' major South Island locale.

A332 VH-EBV on QF409, the 0700 hours SYD - MEL was pointing skywards at 0741, so arrival is at 0908, 33 late. QF407, the 0720 hours from SYD has VH-VYZ and should be at its arrival gate at 0925, half an hour behind.

QF2280, the 0630 hours LST - MEL has had a memorable start to its morning for all the wrong reasons with takeoff at 0817 for Q400 VH-LQJ. Arrival should be at 0920 hours, 95 late.

The 0820 hours MEL down to HBA, QF1011, has B738 VH-VZC. It departed right on time but the queue in MEL was extensive so takeoff was at 0905, so forecast arrival has become 1016 hours, 41 late.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF81 (Monday 3 June 1010 hours SYD up to SIN) pushed back 22 late. Arrival is suggested as 1724 late this afternoon, 34 minutes behind schedule.

The 0930 hours morning QF129 (SYD - PVG) was a similar 23 late in departing; arrival should be at 1903, 38 behind.

QF19 is not as bad as 'the 23' but still manages to run late a few times a month, exacerbated by congestion into MNL if it's not close to time ex SYD. Today's is delayed 50 minutes until 1300 in forecast pushback.

 

[jb747]

Apparently it’s about 1:15000-1:50000 passengers have an acute medical event.

Translating to 1:38-1:125 747 flights if every flight was a 400 seat 747.

I only ever had three events which were bad enough to warrant diversion. We never completed any of the diversions though, as all three died.

 

[Quickstatus]

Would the diversion still occur if the passenger died?

 

[Melburnian1]

This isn't a QF-specific response, and is written from a USA perspective, but may be a reasonable summation:

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If the person was travelling with relatives/friends/business associates, it might be easier to continue to the plane's timetabled destination as these people would often, if OD, have accommodation arranged in that locality. Diversion in such circumstances isn't going to result in reincarnation. It's also costly to the airline (and in time to other passengers).

But I've never experienced a 'medical' diversion.

 

[Melburnian1]

On 3 June, QF19 departed SYD at 1302, 52 late (about as indicated above) with arrival likely tonight at 1925, 55 late.

However earlier, QF107, the identically timed pushback at 1210 hours but to PEK did not leave until 1257. Its at gate arrival is indicated to be 2304, 49 late.

Both QF20 and QF108 (redeyes) will therefore be delayed, respectively ex MNL and PEK.

 

[Melburnian1]

Continuing with 3 June 2019, QF797 (B738 VH-XZN, the 1235 hours ASP - MEL in the sky at 1326) should arrive at about 1635, 55 minutes behind its timetable.

VH-XZI on the mid afternoon QF818 from MEL up to CBR, the 1525 hours was in the sky at 1623 so a 1712 hours, 42 late arrival is the suggestion.

B789 VH-ZNA on the 1515 hours MEL - PER QF9 was in the sky at 1635, so arrival is predicted as 1812, 57 late. This will delay the second, far longer PER - LHR sector by a similar amount.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF172 (3 June 2019, the scheduled 1700 hours late afternoon WLG to MEL in the sky at 1749 with B738 VH-VZW) is arriving 35 late at 1935.

The 1345 hours SYD - CGK is usually good timewise but on 3 June it was not off blocks until 1530, so arrival is estimated as 2010 tonight, 80 late. This will result in redeye QF42 departing at 2125 or later, so at least 75 late with Tuesday 4 SYD at gate arrival at 0715 hours, 70 down.