Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Melburnian1]

Am booked to fly QF1 SYD - SIN Tuesday 10th. Qantas already advising it’s delayed till 2000. Related to the delay of VH-OQD in Singapore?

Atmrp, looking at the previous post, my guess is that the aircraft will have about three hours in SYD (assuming no further delays approaching either SIN or SYD, or in SIN) before forming your delayed QF1.

Due to crew rest requirements, unfortunately QF1 tomorrow night, delayed as it is, will have an enforced stop in SIN from a suggested 0225 to 0620 - four hours in the night - yuk - before arriving LHR at 1305 hours on Wednesday, 390 minutes late.

Sure, passengers with status and those booked in the higher classes, or those willing to shell out for one of the pay-per-use lounges can "luxuriate" but at 0330 most of us want to obtain shuteye. That's difficult in a brightly lit area with passengers and staff moving around.

 

[Silvia]

In further QF582 PER-SYD (A332 VH-EBK) has a revised arrival at 22 18, 103 min tardy.
QF820 MEL-CBR (B738 VH-VYJ) arrived at 20 58, 83 min behind schedule.

 

[Melburnian1]

Continuing, the 9 September QF571 from SYD to PER scheduled at 1735 took of at 1958 tonight. Arriival for A332 VH-EBE (not the first time it's featured today) is expected as 2239, 119 minutes tardy.

On its CBR - MEL return trip, VH-VYJ (QF823) should arrive at gate at 2234, 74 minutes behind time, so it will have picked up about nine minutes since Silvia's post above.

 

[Atmrp]

Atmrp, looking at the previous post, my guess is that the aircraft will have about three hours in SYD (assuming no further delays approaching either SIN or SYD, or in SIN) before forming your delayed QF1.

Due to crew rest requirements, unfortunately QF1 tomorrow night, delayed as it is, will have an enforced stop in SIN from a suggested 0225 to 0620 - four hours in the night - yuk - before arriving LHR at 1305 hours on Wednesday, 390 minutes late.

Sure, passengers with status and those booked in the higher classes, or those willing to shell out for one of the pay-per-use lounges can "luxuriate" but at 0330 most of us want to obtain shuteye. That's difficult in a brightly lit area with passengers and staff moving around.

Thanks for the update. Fortunately we're not continuing SIN-LHR (although the delay means we now miss our connection to DOH on QR). Still wondering why they wouldn't sub in another aircraft given QF7 doesn't operate on Tuesday (as I think you already noted).

 

[Melburnian1]

Thanks for the update.... Still wondering why they wouldn't sub in another aircraft given QF7 doesn't operate on Tuesday (as I think you already noted).

Atmrp, thank YOU for the information you contributed...always good to hear what individual AFfers are up to, especially if they're affected by delays or cancellations on any airline. This gives us all guidance as to what airline X may do in partcular circumstances, all the more important because Oz lacks an EU-type compensation scheme. None of us probably choose an airline based on how it handles delays/cancellations but unfortunately QFi, for the percentage of international flights it has with this must be one of the worse major Western legacy carriers for long and medium distance routes.

Tuesday could be a scheduled maintenance day. QF opened a major maintenance hangar in LAX in recent years, but that still might not obviate a need for some attention in Oz that takes more than the usual downtime between arrivals and departures.

jb747 previously suggested that which aircraft travels to where also has to do with how many 'cycles' the aircraft has done as one consideration. But you raise a good point. In theory QF had 10 A388s available today but (as I indeed recently noted) only nine are normally required on Tuesdays.

As a side issue, what happens with your onwards QR flight? Can you rebook without penalty or is there a high impost to your wallet? Different PNR or both sectors on the same one?

 

[Atmrp]

As a side issue, what happens with your onwards QR flight? Can you rebook without penalty or is there a high impost to your wallet? Different PNR or both sectors on the same one?

Sadly its 2 separate PNRs- SYD-SIN on QF1 in PE (paid) then SIN-DOH-CDG on QR in J (booked as QFF classic reward tickets). I really thought/hoped we'd be ok when we booked months ago with a 4+ hr wait in SIN.

We've now decided that missing the QR flights isn't an option so I've just now booked 4 seats on SQ222 in Y and will accept what ever the cancellation penalty is on the QF tickets.

And just to rub salt in the wounds I received a further txt from QF at 1330 today confirming our points upgrade from PE to J (amazing cause we're all QFF Bronze). Clearly the result of lots of cancellations on the delayed QF1.

 

[Melburnian1]

Sadly its 2 separate PNRs- SYD-SIN on QF1 in PE (paid) then SIN-DOH-CDG on QR in J (booked as QFF classic reward tickets). I really thought/hoped we'd be ok when we booked months ago with a 4+ hr wait in SIN.

We've now decided that missing the QR flights isn't an option so I've just now booked 4 seats on SQ222 in Y and will accept what ever the cancellation penalty is on the QF tickets.

And just to rub salt in the wounds I received a further txt from QF at 1330 today confirming our points upgrade from PE to J (amazing cause we're all QFF Bronze). Clearly the result of lots of cancellations on the delayed QF1.

Goodness, booking the day before - for four, a total of A$2000 plus revenue for SQ I suspect, plus the QF cancellation fees, less any refund received from QF.

 

[jb747]

The overnight delayed QF1D is arriving LHR (A388 VH-OQD) at 0729 hours,, 1494 minutes late.

Based on the fastest achieved times in the last few days, QF's computer timings for QF2D today seem insufficient for LHR to SIN and overly generous for SIN to SYD.

If departure is bang on 0920 hours and the taxiing takes 20 minutes in LHR and we give it five minutes taxiing in SIN, 12 hours 36 minutes in the air time means arrival in SIN at 0521 hours not QF's claimed 0455. If the stay in SIN (at gate) is exactly 90 minutes, that means departure at 0651 with takeoff at say 0711, flight time of 6 hours 54 minutes and a taxiing time in SYD of five minutes gives arrival at gate at 1610 hours, not QF's claimed 1555 hours tomorrow. Time will tell.

Whilst I've said plenty of times that we can't necessarily speed up when late, mostly because we won't have the fuel to do so, it's quite possible that a delayed flight could be planned at a higher cost index. That means that you can't just apply the times achieved in previous days. Having said that, the likelihood of the people who output the times on the web site having access to the planned times is probably zero.

Atmrp, looking at the previous post, my guess is that the aircraft will have about three hours in SYD (assuming no further delays approaching either SIN or SYD, or in SIN) before forming your delayed QF1.

Due to crew rest requirements, unfortunately QF1 tomorrow night, delayed as it is, will have an enforced stop in SIN from a suggested 0225 to 0620 - four hours in the night - yuk - before arriving LHR at 1305 hours on Wednesday, 390 minutes late.

Why do you say that it's due to crew rest requirements?

 

[Melburnian1]

...Why do you say that it's due to crew rest requirements?

I hypothesised that previous late running meant crew would have had insufficient rest had the aircraft departed after the standard 90 minutes in SIN.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF2D on Monday 9 pushed back in LHR at 0931 hours, 746 minutes late, so a 122 minute turnaround, not record breaking. The quickest I've seen at a terminus- as distinct from an intermediate stop - (with passengers both ways) is 95 - 100 minutes.

It then took off at 1001 hours. QF has amended the estimated Tuesday 10 September SIN arrival to 0555 hours, 750 late, but has not changed the departure that is showing publicly as 0620 - not possible. A more realistic time is 0725 hours with SYD arrival tomorrow at about 1625 - 1650 hours.

UPDATE: the QF software has been at work, amending the SIN stop as 0555 to 0720 tomorrow, with SYD arrival 1655 hours, which is 705 minutes tardy.

The overnight delayed QF2D was in SIN on Tuesday 10 September from 0545 to pushback at 0729 hours. QF has amended the expected arrival time in SYD to 1720 hours, 730 minutes late;.

 

[Melburnian1]

Monday 9 September's QF1 departed SYD a minute late at 1551, arriving SIN at 2154, 16 early, but did not then push back until 0129 hours on Tuesday 10, 94 late so LHR arrival is estimated as 70 minutes behind schedule at 0745.

Not so many years ago QF managers had to front LHR management to explain why so many flights were late into and out of LHR. As with any super busy airport, Heathrow is sensitive about repeated unpunctuality because it may lead to other aircraft being delayed.

'The 1' and 'The 2' rerouting via SIN started well in about March 2018 but lately there have been quite a few examples of late running, and often not just 10 or 20 minutes.

 

[jb747]

I hypothesised that previous late running meant crew would have had insufficient rest had the aircraft departed after the standard 90 minutes in SIN.

Crews are constantly rescheduled, and moved from one flight to another. A crew that leaves Melbourne, expecting to do just a Melbourne - Singapore return, could easily find itself in London. The crew for the 1 out of Singapore, is generally made up of a cabin crew from London, who came in 24 or 48 hours previously on the 2, and pilots who came up on the 1, the previous day. In both cases, delays on their aircraft would have to be in the order of 12 hours before there’d be any potential impact on the next sector. But, such impact would be obvious well before the event, so there’s plenty of time to ‘grab’ a new crew from elsewhere. Southbound pilots have a 48 hour slip, so they’re always a target.

Whilst delays due crew rest happen, they are quite rare in the scheme of things.

 

[Melburnian1]

...Whilst delays due crew rest happen, they are quite rare in the scheme of things.

Fair enough, but apart from predicted weather - I've not checked what it was - why would an A388 be rescheduled to have c. four hours on the ground at the Singapore intermediate stop? The timetable change occurred before the aircraft departed Sydney.

 

[jb747]

Fair enough, but apart from predicted weather - I've not checked what it was - why would an A388 be rescheduled to have c. four hours on the ground at the Singapore intermediate stop? The timetable change occurred before the aircraft departed Sydney.

What date?

 

[Melburnian1]

What date?

It's this afternoon's (i.e. Tuesday 10 September ex SYD, altered to depart as you would know to 2000 hours tonight account late QF2D arrival. SIN stop is proposed from 0225 to 0620 hours on Wednesday 11 (if it was punctual, would depart SIN 2355 hours this evening.) Thanks!

 

[jb747]

It's this afternoon's (i.e. Tuesday 10 September ex SYD, altered to depart as you would know to 2000 hours tonight account late QF2D arrival. SIN stop is proposed from 0225 to 0620 hours on Wednesday 11 (if it was punctual, would depart SIN 2355 hours this evening. Thanks!

Ha, Why would I know? I’m in Salzburg.

Looks like the 2 didn’t run on the 8th. That would have held the cabin crew for the 1 on the 10th, so you may actually be correct about crew rest, assuming they’re sticking with sending them back to London. There’s possibly a Sydney based crew who could do it, but I don’t know what their award says these days.

Other reasons for delays though. Sometimes maintenance actions can be sent down line. Perhaps a part is available in one place but not another. Sometime MEL timings can force this too (they have rigid expiry times).

Politically, as Australia has decided to patrol the Gulf, I expect the Iranians will consider whether overflights will continue to be allowed, or perhaps simply play with the timing of them.

 

[Melburnian1]

Ha, Why would I know? I’m in Salzburg.

Looks like the 2 didn’t run on the 8th. That would have held the cabin crew for the 1 on the 10th, so you may actually be correct about crew rest, assuming they’re sticking with sending them back to London. There’s possibly a Sydney based crew who could do it, but I don’t know what their award says these days.

Other reasons for delays though. Sometimes maintenance actions can be sent down line. Perhaps a part is available in one place but not another. Sometime MEL timings can force this too (they have rigid expiry times).

Politically, as Australia has decided to patrol the Gulf, I expect the Iranians will consider whether overflights will continue to be allowed, or perhaps simply play with the timing of them.

Enjoy Salzburg. Hopefully your SQ journey was fine. Your knowledge has not atrophied. 'The 2' on the 8th scheduled at 2105 hours ex London was the one delayed overnight until an 0931 hours departure from LHR on Monday 9, and which then arrived in SYD this arvo so its stop on SIN was (as above) this morning, 0545 to 0729 hours.

While I may have missed it, the media doesn't appear to have picked up on any aviation repercussions for our relatively small announced deployment in the Gulf. So something perhaps a little more serious than the 'avoid Pakistani airspace scenario'' of a few weeks ago, given that this time Australia is a participant not merely a passenger airline overflyer.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF1011 (0820 hours MEL - HBA on Wednesday 11 September) is expected to depart half an hour late.

The overnight PVG to SYD QF130 has A332 VH-EBV and should arrive at 0906 hours, 41 minutes tardy.

 

[Quickstatus]

'The Australian' reports that a SYD - CBR flight on Monday 9 September made a decision to return to SYD because two passengers were involved in an escalating argument after one apparently objected to the other sending a text message.

The article is paywalled but by a process of elimination it looks to be QF1421, the scheduled 1430 hours airborne at 1451 with Q400 VH-QOB. This flight is normally due to arrive in CBR at 1525 hours but instead arrived back in SYD at 1521 hours. The aircraft then seems to have departed SYD for a second time at 1611, arriving CBR at 1656 hours, 91 minutes late and is now operating the return QF1420, the 1600 hours airborne at 1728.

If without copying the article in full, someone could summarise why the decision was made to return to SYD that would be interesting.

The news articles contain scant details about this event. It is very likely that there is much more that has not been reported and possible the headline of the story is wrong.

 

[Melburnian1]

The news articles contain scant details about this event. It is very likely that there is much more that has not been reported and possible the headline of the story is wrong.

Are you suggesting it was a physical rather than just verbal altercation? Pushing and shoving?