Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[789nerd]

QF93 MEL-LAX (B789 Vh-ZNC) was delayed 131 minutes in Melbourne such that this morning's departure became this afternoon's. The estimated delay into Los Angeles shown as cut back to 76 minutes for an 07:36 PST arrival.

As referred to yesterday, QF27 SYD-SCL has again been delayed, today being more serious - shown as 70 minutes, but that was for a 13:45 AEDT Sydney departure from gate 37. That time has passed, and 20 minutes later, no sign on the flight trackers yet.

 

[789nerd]

This flight has been delayed a further hour to 19:00 SAST (01:00 AWST/04:00 AEDT), still no flow on, however the gap to QF7 departure is down to 120 minutes.

QF64 (B789 VH-ZND) finally pushed back at 19:07 SAST, 2 hours 32 minutes late - with revised Sydney arrival of 16:07 AEDT, 2 hours 42 minutes late.

 

[789nerd]

As referred to yesterday, QF27 SYD-SCL has again been delayed, today being more serious - shown as 70 minutes, but that was for a 13:45 AEDT Sydney departure from gate 37. That time has passed, and 20 minutes later, no sign on the flight trackers yet.

Qantas flight status showed the flight as departed at 14:11 AEDT, however the flight was held up at the gate, with QF41 (ex gate 35) blocking its pushback until 14:19 AEDT. Santiago arrival is now shown as 12:21CLST, 86 minutes late.

 

[789nerd]

Today's QF10 (B789 VH-ZNB) pushed back at Heathrow just 26 minutes late, and took off another 26 minutes later. The 26 minute delay is shown as holding through to Perth. Not exceptional.

What is interesting however, is that FR24 shows that the flight left from a holding bay, indicating that the passengers were bussed to the aircraft. Is this Heathrow's way of dealing with Qantas's constant arrival lateness?

 

[Ade]

QF1511 CBR-MEL 0600 service is cancelled. QF is offering refreshment vouchers for pax rebooked on services later than 0830.

Update: QF1426 CBR-SYD 0810 service is also cancelled

 

[789nerd]

Friday's QF27 (B789 VH-ZNI) lost a further ten minutes, eventually arrived in Santiago at 12:31 CLST, 96 minutes late.

As a consequence, the return QF28 was 49 minutes late departing Santiago, and is expected into Sydney at 19:15 AEDT, 85 minutes late.

 

[789nerd]

Monday morning's QF93 (MEL-LAX) has been delayed until the afternoon : 13:30 AEDT (150 minutes late). The arrival into Los Angeles is estimated to now be 09:30 PDT (130 minutes late).

No B789 has yet been allocated, suggesting that there may be issues with VH-ZNG which arrived with QF22 earlier this morning, and would normally then take out QF93.

 

[789nerd]

Monday morning's QF93 (MEL-LAX) has been delayed until the afternoon : 13:30 AEDT (150 minutes late). The arrival into Los Angeles is estimated to now be 09:30 PDT (130 minutes late).

No B789 has yet been allocated, suggesting that there may be issues with VH-ZNG which arrived with QF22 earlier this morning, and would normally then take out QF93.

This flight has been delayed a further 105 minutes until 15:15 AEDT, with ZNG now shown as the aircraft (total delay now 4 hrs 15 minutes). The revised delay into Los Angeles is shown as 3 hrs 55 minutes (arrival 11:15 PST).

 

[789nerd]

This flight has been delayed a further 105 minutes until 15:15 AEDT, with ZNG now shown as the aircraft (total delay now 4 hrs 15 minutes). The revised delay into Los Angeles is shown as 3 hrs 55 minutes (arrival 11:15 PST).

QF93 (B789 VH-ZNG) eventually pushed back in Sydney at 15:53 AEDT, with final revised ETA into Los Angeles of 11:58 PST, 4 hrs 38 minutes late.

 

[docjames]

Multiple domestic cancellations ex-MEL to SYD and CBR, announcement in QP lounge blamed “ATC restrictions, runway works at Melbourne and staff shortages” as reason, and emphasised announcement “all customers have been accommodated on alternative flights, however there are no seats remaining before 10am” (this was at about 630am….).

MEL-SYD
Cancelled services 0630; 0725; 0745; 0900. The JQ services appeared unaffected.

MEL-CBR
Cancelled 0605; 0800 (QF1512 and 1514 usually op by 717s cancelled but QF1114 ran at same time using a 738).

A cynic might think it was useful consolidation for QF given one VA flight cancelled and no JQ flights appeared to be cancelled…..and the staff shortages are at QF, and nothing to do with ATC or runway works (of which none were obvious at departure……).

 

[Quickstatus]

nothing to do with ATC or runway works

There was apparently a letter from AirServices Australia to the ATSB which cited that on the day QF28 called a diversion to NTL there were only 3 ATC rather than the usual 5. The ATSB has since opened an investigation into the diversion of QF28. The diversion likely was the sentinel event but the various underlying issues such as effect of weather and ATC shortages would possibly also be investigated.

ATC shortages apparently have triggered a ground delay program at SYD on multiple occasions. I'm not sure what a "ground delay program" actually means but runway restrictions appear to be part of it. The idea is to reduce the arrival tempo - often significantly.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I presume ground delay program means an Airservices imposed cap on hourly movements. Thus flights don't leave the origin airport and get stuck waiting for an undetermined period in a hold or diversion

 

[docjames]

There was apparently a letter from AirServices Australia to the ATSB which cited that on the day QF28 called a diversion to NTL there were only 3 ATC rather than the usual 5. The ATSB has since opened an investigation into the diversion of QF28. The diversion likely was the sentinel event but the various underlying issues such as effect of weather and ATC shortages would possibly also be investigated.

ATC shortages apparently have triggered a ground delay program at SYD on multiple occasions. I'm not sure what a "ground delay program" actually means but runway restrictions appear to be part of it. The idea is to reduce the arrival tempo - often significantly.

Yes, but surely the cancellations would be spread more evenly Between carriers?

As i say, they made a point to blame ATC and runway works, but…… i suspect there is more to it.

 

[Quickstatus]

surely the cancellations would be spread more evenly Between carriers

Good point. It may have been the minimum fuel declaration while other flights did not?

 

[justinbrett]

I'm not sure what a "ground delay program" actually means

The ground delay program is not necessarily related to staffing shortages - but may be in this case. It was really common flying into BNE prior to the opening of the second parallel runway.

Basically it's a new system ("program") where landing slots are calculated for soon to be departing aircraft, and if that means a flight will be landing 15 minutes later than it wants, the aircraft will be held on the ground at the departure location rather than let it become airborne and require holding. It basically smooths out the peaks and troughs to fit within the available capacity of the arriving aerodrome.

This is different to the slots the airlines manage - that's more the scheduled time (within the control of the airline), whereas these times (not actually called slots I'm just using that term for ease) are the actual estimated time using ATC systems based on current departure time.

If you've ever sat at a gate after boarding and wondered why - this is why.

 

[docjames]

I note the 630 and 830 SYD-MEL were cancelled today as well. With the 1100 MEL-SYD also cancelled.

Everything else so far basically on time so smells like capacity management from QF……..

 

[Quickstatus]

630

QF405 did operate today...

 

[justinbrett]

I note the 630 and 830 SYD-MEL were cancelled today as well. With the 1100 MEL-SYD also cancelled.

Everything else so far basically on time so smells like capacity management from QF……..

There's other threads where this has been explained to death.

ATC don't care which flights to cancel. They just give the airlines an upper limit per hour of what they can fly.

QF then picks which flights to cancel - SYD/MEL is the easiest as its the most frequent - you can't go and cancel a flight like SYD/DRW or SYD/CNS that operates once a day. Cancelling SYD/MEL means a few hours delay for some - cancelling other flights means they don't travel that day.

 

[docjames]

QF405 did operate today...

Apologies - yes - it was the 630 JQ flight that didn’t operate (and matching return MEL-SYD 0850hrs) - I mis-read the QF app.

 

[docjames]

There's other threads where this has been explained to death.

ATC don't care which flights to cancel. They just give the airlines an upper limit per hour of what they can fly.

QF then picks which flights to cancel - SYD/MEL is the easiest as its the most frequent - you can't go and cancel a flight like SYD/DRW or SYD/CNS that operates once a day. Cancelling SYD/MEL means a few hours delay for some - cancelling other flights means they don't travel that day.

I appreciate ATC don’t choose, the airline does - I guess my point is the relative number of QF cancellations yesterday for purported reasons, compared to VA (at a similar frequency of flights) yesterday not having an equivalent number of cancellations ex-MEL yesterday suggests it Is less capacity limitation imposed by ATC/runway works, and more to do with direct QF capacity management (Not “required” by ATC/other non-QF restrictions).


It’s frustrating as a traveller to make a booking on an offered flight time that suitsand then have to last-minute re-juggle it all (at own nuisance/expense) whereas if you want to change (especially at short notice), the airline typically charges royally for the pleasure.

FWIW I wasn’t affected at all (other than a “shadow” being filled next to me - no biggie.)