Qantas Emirates Alliance ....but fewer Benefits? Not Happy Qantas ..........

[RichardMEL]

Doesn't MH also do bid to upgrade on their flights? perhaps LHR-KUL-BKK would be an alternative?

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I would also note this situation is hardly unique to either QF or EK. Many alliances and partners do not have upgrade awards on codeshare flights or even across metal. Some exceptions are Star Alliance upgrade awards, but these are, in general, only available on the higher booking classes of "target" flights (eg: Y or B for economy fares). United and Lufthansa have had a long standing upgrade agreement as part of their trans atlantic joint venture that I've used in the past and does work, but even then a bit clunky.

There was talk of QF allowing upgrades on LA (Lan Chile) on QF codeshare services between SYD-AKL-SCL (see Qantas launches frequent flyer upgrades on LAN’s Sydney-Santiago flights - Australian Business Traveller) but this doesn't seem to be currently happening (or there's no mention on the QF page for LAN).

You can't upgrade using, for example, AA miles on a CX flight, or EY etc. For many different reasons I think it's difficult to enact across partners and alliances - part of it being the need to give the partner access to your upgrade inventory /loadings and there may actually be competition reasons why this wouldn't be allowed-but i'm just guessing here rather than making an informed comment). Also many different carriers handle upgrade processing differently - eg: close into departure like QF, or ad hoc as inventory is released (I've seen this on United, amongst others) and many other ways - getting a partner to play in that space may also be difficult.

So anyway yes it's annoying, specially if one books a QF flight number and expect to be able to upgrade it - or rather have the opportunity to apply for an upgrade.

So yes, it's frustrating, but part of life in the current environment.

Maybe what QF could do to make it extra clear to pax is on the booking screens, for those logged into their FF accounts (so they know you're a QFF member) is put a tag on QF metal flights with something like "upgradeable flight" and maybe even the points cost. This could also be helpful in the case where someone is selecting a sale or other fare on a QF metal flight that is not valid for upgrades, so even that could be hilighted on the flight selection screen so passengers are informed of that as well).

This is all true but misses the point.
The point is not about the general nature of alliances or codeshare agreements.
The point is that the QF/EK agreement led directly to a massive drop in the international routes operated by Qantas itself.
So that codeshares are now the only options for some destinations.
Further, QF has agreed not to operate any flights out of some ports, such as Perth.
This is a very different situation to membership of an alliance which opens up extra options without directly causing significant reductions to the existing network.
Please do not reply with explanations of the comemrcial realities underlying QF/EK deal.
The point is not that it doesn't make some commercial sense for each airline.
The point is the impact it has on many passengers, and it's legitimate for people to be frustrated by this.
It's not up to passengers to balance commercial factors in their own heads and censor their own feedback.
On the contrary, we should continue to give our feedback and let QF do the balancing.

The OP's specific point is not the most clear cut case.
Certainly QF never flew DXB-BKK, but my reading of his complaint is that he wanted to fly LHR-BKK-SYD and DXB is a stopover imposed on him.
So it is the disappearance of the LHR-BKK sector which he is lamenting, and this disappeared before the QF/EK agrement.
However I think there is some validity in his general point.
The QF/EK agreement is not a normal alliance or codesharing agreement, it has had some negative impacts on passengers and the details of the agreement don't address these.

Now as to what value there is in the right to participate in the upgrade lottery, I've been wondering that myself.

 

[dalereardon]

If you have enough points you can book the LHR-DXB-BKK legs on EK metal using your QF points and book in F or J.

EK is very reliable for making F seats available at the last minute (a few days out) but not sure how many J they make available at last minute if none are available now.

Had a very nice F flight with EK a few weeks ago - booked J as an award ahead of time and as soon as the F came up 4 days out I grabbed it for my wife and I.

Dale.

 

[RichardMEL]

This is all true but misses the point.
The point is not about the general nature of alliances or codeshare agreements.
The point is that the QF/EK agreement led directly to a massive drop in the international routes operated by Qantas itself.
So that codeshares are now the only options for some destinations.
Further, QF has agreed not to operate any flights out of some ports, such as Perth.

Then what is QF doing re-starting PER-SIN?

I honestly don't know the fact of the matter re your statement about QF agreeing to not serve certain ports - i'd be interested to see some evidence of this (I could believe such clauses exist, I just have no idea one way or the other).

Yes, I agree the EK alliance has cut out unprofitable destinations for QF who were bleeding heavily on european routes with massive competition from lower cost (mostly asian and ME3) carriers. Seems reasonable business sense, if not terribly popular to the punters, and those used to the kangaroo route, to pull out.

This is all a different argument, IMHO, to that of the OP so I'll leave it there

 

[eminere]

Had a very nice F flight with EK a few weeks ago - booked J as an award ahead of time and as soon as the F came up 4 days out I grabbed it for my wife and I.

Were there fees for cancelling the J award and how long did it take for the points to redeposit in your account so you could use them towards the F award?

 

[dalereardon]

I rang the call centre from overseas to do it - they charged 3500 points each for the two of us as a variation to a booking and just took the extra points required for the F upgrade (difference between J and F) from our account. They didn't do a redeposit at all.

Dale.

 

[roncritch]

Then what is QF doing re-starting PER-SIN?


I honestly don't know the fact of the matter re your statement about QF agreeing to not serve certain ports - i'd be interested to see some evidence of this (I could believe such clauses exist, I just have no idea one way or the other).

Further, QF has agreed not to operate any flights out of some ports, such as Perth

I know this has gone completely O/T, but also would like to know if this is the case? I can see that PER_SIN would be OK as this is not a route serviced by EK. But would like to know if PER has been cut out completely in the future to flying LHR via DXB.

To bring it back O/T... if this is the case then wish they would re-open the agreement to work out some sort of upgrade with points availability for PER and ADL customers.

 

[dajop]

The point is that the QF/EK agreement led directly to a massive drop in the international routes operated by Qantas itself.

Was the QF/EK agreement the cause of the alleged "massive" drop, or merely a symptom of the difficulties that QF was facing?

Over the last ten years there's been a monumental shift in the balance of power in the airline industry, particularly as it relates to travel between Europe and the East (including Asia and Australia). You've seen the massive investment in three separate gulf "states" (being the nation of Qatar and the Emirates of Abu Dhabi and Dubai) that have sought to exploit their natural geographical advantage at the crossroads of a big chunk of the world. European carriers have withdrawn from Australia (other than a token BA route, and the potential emergence of TK which is on the cusp of the ME & Europe anyway). MH and TG , both strong airlines built on the back of Europe->Asia/Australia traffic are both now basket cases that are attempting to re-invent themselves (and MH was well before the tragic events of 2014). SQ is struggling and is certainly not expanding its medium-long haul activities, whilst carriers like CX are insulated somewhat by its geographic position and unique entity in the form of Dragonair that allows it excellent access into China.

QF just got with the program. I think most would rather a strong QF, than a QF that ended up as financial basket case that pulled out of Europe altogether.

And of course we could have a separate debate about whether QF getting rid of PER-Europe connections, and withdrawing from ADL-SIN and SIN-FRA constitutes a "massive" drop in the international routes operated by Qantas or not.

FWIW, I'm no QF supporter (despite being QF LTG haven't flown mainline QF for almost 2 years, or even QF link for over a year), but do feel there's a bit of a perception out there that QF needs to be everything to everybody irrespective of whether it is financially sensible or not, and that from time to time needs correcting.

 

[casanovawa]

This thread has at least allowed the OP to almost double his post count in the last couple of days over his previous 7 years or so...

 

[robolb]

This thread has at least allowed the OP to almost double his post count in the last couple of days over his previous 7 years or so...

I actually only 'rediscovered' this forum a couple of days ago...:idea:

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Am I missing something here? I hope so.........

I'm just booking some Qantas flights for next year.

Sydney -London
Then London - Sydney with stop over in Bangkok.

I'm booking economy and plan to upgrade using points.

Except..........the return flight is via Dubai and a code share with Emirates from Dubai to Bangkok.
So I can't use points to upgrade on that sector! Why? It's a Qantas booking with a Qantas flight number.

Great!

So what's the point of codeshares and alliances (to the flying public) if FF members lose out?

Very pissed off :evil:

Any thoughts on how to get around this? Do I have to join Emirates and buy their points or something?

Not happy Qantas.........not happy........

You could always purchase a cheap return fare in economy SYD/BKK or a cheap Star Class fare on JQi SYD/HKT or MEL/BKK. I wouldn't bother paying extra for an upgradeable fare on QF as points upgrade success is rare on this route even for a WP.

You could then use your QF points for a J partner award on BA BKK/LHR vv or AY via HEL or buy a cheap One World J fare BKK/LHR then do an award back.

I would sign up for Avianca Life Miles as you can purchase miles for award travel on *A carriers such as TG which would be handy if you live in BKK part of the year. They've just had a bonus miles promo recently however you need to be an enrolled member first prior to purchasing any miles with bonus offers.

 

[wandering_fred]

Another option would be to fly UL from BKK to Europe and vv. I just flew FCO-CMB-BKK on UL, and successfully bid to upgrade to J (FCO-CMB) for USD400. The whole FCO-BKK-FCO round trip Y-class ticket was Euros 520 (plus the upgrade fee of $400 US). And I earned 80 QF SC for the FCO-CMB flight, which was very pleasant indeed.

And had you been in the J cabin CMB-BKK (>750 other J routes) you would have earned another 80 SC, thanks to "simpler and fairer".

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[love_the_life]

To be fair, I can see where the OP is coming from. Regardless of the economics of QF,whether the EK alliance was the reason or how long the route has not been available for, the only flight LHR-BKK-SYD includes EK metal DXB-BKK so that there is no chance of an upgrade. If I had started looking at flights and found that, I would not have been happy, though then would have started looking at alternatives. It is only a 6 - 7 hour flight by the looks of it though so maybe I would have stuck with it (not that I fly that route anyway - we go through HKG now not the ME). The upgrade lottery is not nearly as easy to crack as it used to be so I just suck it in and pay for the class of travel I want.

 

[robolb]

I spoke to Qantas a couple of times today after trying a few different online booking options.

In the end it all seemed too hard. I was trying to come back from UK with a stopover in Bangkok, and use Qantas points to upgrade. It's simply not possible to fly back via Asia on Qantas aircraft. Other than Dubai.

The simplest option I think is just to buy a Thai Airways ticket. join their program, and either buy points or get a family transfer from a friend.

I'll go and read up about the Thai program.

Just disappointing that I can't fly Qantas

Thanks to those who helped out on this thread....

 

[dajop]

I spoke to Qantas a couple of times today after trying a few different online booking options.

In the end it all seemed too hard. I was trying to come back from UK with a stopover in Bangkok, and use Qantas points to upgrade. It's simply not possible to fly back via Asia on Qantas aircraft. Other than Dubai.

The simplest option I think is just to buy a Thai Airways ticket. join their program, and either buy points or get a family transfer from a friend.

The other option is of course is to pick the least painful flight for DXB-BKK, and sit in Y for that leg, but upgrade all other legs in your booking. It is only 6 hours flying time, and I'd be looking at a day flight on an A380 as the best option (eg EK 372/QF 8372) for economy travel, avoiding the 77W.

 

[robolb]

The other option is of course is to pick the least painful flight for DXB-BKK, and sit in Y for that leg, but upgrade all other legs in your booking. It is only 6 hours flying time, and I'd be looking at a day flight on an A380 as the best option (eg EK 372/QF 8372) for economy travel, avoiding the 77W.

Indeed that's another option.

But I think we might just fly Thai on all the sectors....

 

[dajop]

But I think we might just fly Thai on all the sectors....

Probably the best option, especially considering you've still got to play the QF upgrade lottery on the QF sectors anyway, so no guarantees of upgrades even on the sectors QF operates.