QANTAS/Emirates alliance - thoughts?

[Mwenenzi]

For me this is going to be a positive as long as OW does not move DXB from Europe to Asia.Will be able to do a DONE3.Proviso is they dont charge an arm and a leg for it.Should save a couple of thousand though.
I would guess though it will still be hard to get premium cabin awards to DXB.
Whilst looking up fares I noted that on a DONE4 it is nearly $5500 cheaper to start from AMM.Hmm.Might have to find a friendly TA there.

The opportunity to now be able to do a DONE3 from Australia has great appeal for me. The SIN transit causing the minimum DONE from Australia to be a 4 has always bugged me as I have no great interest in an Asian stopover. So long as there are no stings in the tail, this seems to be a great move for the xONEx traveller.

IMHO the chances of flying a *ONE* on EK metal as a QF codeshare are close to nil. IIRC currently no codeshares unless on OW metal on a *ONE* ticket (apart from a JQ exemption ?) Given the low price per mile on *ONE cannot see EK metal being allowable.
*GLOB are a different matter: Codeshares on non OW metal is in the rules now.
serfty has a good post on FT about this.

Similarly I expect the *ONE* & *GLOB* rules will state SWP to EU {where OW says Dubai is} over Asia is 3 zones. To much $ to lose if they don't. Airlines do not dramatically reduce prices for the same distance.

But the fine print will detail. Very little detail to date http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/air...bal/en?int_cam=au:hcp:qantas-emirates:lang:en

 

[here2go]

About time Qantas stopped promoting JQ at the expense of the international arm… so will be interesting to see who they link up with now, and what happens their results show, but I think it’s about time they did it on their own (as part of the group), rather than being propped up.

While DJ haven't got a lounge up here, they've got breathing space. Once the DJ lounge is opened (especially if it caters to International and Domestic guests), I reckon there will be a huge switch to DJ, and more flights will appear. More daytime flights, E190 DRW-ASP, DRW-CNS etc. The other pawn that Qantas has up here is Air North, which is hosted by Qantas. If DJ with Sabre can host Air North, noting there is only marginal competition between Air North and SkyWest, it could change the whole market up here. All baseless speculation.

 

[simongr]

IMHO the chances of flying a *ONE* on EK metal as a QF codeshare are close to nil. IIRC currently no codeshares unless on OW metal on a *ONE* ticket (apart from a JQ exemption ?) Given the low price per mile on *ONE cannot see EK metal being allowable.

Has anyone suggested that an xONEx on EK metal was possible? You could easily fly syd-dxb-lhr on QF metal as part of your xONEx.

 

[here2go]

Greenie in me went to Great Circle Mapper. Has it occurred to anyone that if it weren't for the cheap price of fuel in DXB and/or low taxes, at least for the East Coast DXB would not work as a transit point for Europe. It is further than travelling via SIN, which is further than HKG again. That said, there is no backtracking via LHR, which makes this deal better environmentally if not going to the UK.

 

[marks]

..... That said, there is no backtracking via LHR, which makes this deal better environmentally if not going to the UK.

And avoiding the exorbitant pax fees in/out of LHR appeals to the "tightarse" traits in me.....

 

[here2go]

And avoiding the exorbitant pax fees in/out of LHR appeals to the "tightarse" traits in me.....

Ditto. Interestingly, I did my figures on GCC BNE-SIN-FRA, and BNE-DXB-FRA, and SIN still quicker.

 

[whatmeworry]

Greenie in me went to Great Circle Mapper. Has it occurred to anyone that if it weren't for the cheap price of fuel in DXB and/or low taxes, at least for the East Coast DXB would not work as a transit point for Europe. It is further than travelling via SIN, which is further than HKG again. That said, there is no backtracking via LHR, which makes this deal better environmentally if not going to the UK.

I think that by going to DXB, airlines actually pay less in carbon taxes imposed by the UK and Germany because the distance between Europe and the middle east is shorter then Asia-Europe.

Personally for my self, the loss of FRA with QF is a bit of a loss. However with EK I can get into some other European ports directly but they do not fly everywhere and with some of their European ports being non hubs, means it could actually more difficult to get my final destination such as East and Southern Europe. I have seen some great routings with EY and QR with despite it being 2 stops, the final destination is under 24 hours.

With QF pulling out of FRA I guess that means one route by a OW partner and thus might affect some people's plans with award flights.

I hope SC's are awarded with DXB-European ports as it would make it much more palatable.

 

[here2go]

I think that by going to DXB, airlines actually pay less in carbon taxes imposed by the UK and Germany because the distance between Europe and the middle east is shorter then Asia-Europe.

Personally for my self, the loss of FRA with QF is a bit of a loss. However with EK I can get into some other European ports directly but they do not fly everywhere and with some of their European ports being non hubs, means it could actually more difficult to get my final destination such as East and Southern Europe. I have seen some great routings with EY and QR with despite it being 2 stops, the final destination is under 24 hours.

With QF pulling out of FRA I guess that means one route by a OW partner and thus might affect some people's plans with award flights.

I hope SC's are awarded with DXB-European ports as it would make it much more palatable.

I guess the point I was trying to make was if taxes were made equal, this would not be such a brilliant move.

 

[serfty]

I guess the point I was trying to make was if taxes were made equal, this would not be such a brilliant move.

The differences are minimal %'age wise.

DXB is under 4000mi from London so the 'discounted' APD is £65 if you have a stopover at Dubai.

The 'discounted' APD for SIN/Oz is £92 as they are both over 6000km from the UK. This is payable if your routing is, say, LHR-xDXB-MEL.

The non 'discounted' rates are £162 and £184. (HM Revenue & Customs)

The tax is simply onerous (of course, so is the Oz Departure tax at AUD55 and now indexed to inflation).

 

[ozbeachbabe]

While DJ haven't got a lounge up here, they've got breathing space. Once the DJ lounge is opened (especially if it caters to International and Domestic guests), I reckon there will be a huge switch to DJ, and more flights will appear. More daytime flights, E190 DRW-ASP, DRW-CNS etc.

The other pawn that Qantas has up here is Air North, which is hosted by Qantas. If DJ with Sabre can host Air North, noting there is only marginal competition between Air North and SkyWest, it could change the whole market up here. All baseless speculation.

Qantas don't host Air North but both airlines are system users of the Amadeus GDS. That's just like saying CX or BA host Air North. I don't see why Air North would have to migrate to Sabre just to have a marketing arrangement with DJ. QF and AA have managed to have code-share arrangements for some years now despite being users of Amadeus & Sabre respectively.

If DJ do fly DRW/ASP they will need to get the support of the NT travelling public for it to be viable. DJ flew SYD/ASP a few years ago after the locals complained about QF's monopoly to/from ASP. DJ started flights after locals pledged their support, QF matched their lower fares so pax decided that if QF charged the same they may as well fly with the Roo.

DJ then pulled out of that route as the locals had not supported them as promised so the flights were no longer viable for the airline. QF fares increased back to what they were previously as no competition & the whinging started all over again but this time they had noone else to blame but themselves.

 

[JohnM]

Has anyone suggested that an xONEx on EK metal was possible? You could easily fly syd-dxb-lhr on QF metal as part of your xONEx.

That's exactly what I would want to do. Currently that's only possible within a DONE4 via an Asian port. Via DBX puts you straight into the European zone, so for the first time making a DONE3 from Australia feasible.


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[cartz]

That's exactly what I would want to do. Currently that's only possible within a DONE4 via an Asian port. Via DBX puts you straight into the European zone, so for the first time making a DONE3 from Australia feasible.

The current xONEx rules state "Travel between South West Pacific and Europe/Middle East on a single flight number/or by surface is considered travelling SWP-Asia-Europe through three continents". Seems like this would still result in a minimum of a xONE4 from Australia.

 

[anat0l]

The current xONEx rules state "Travel between South West Pacific and Europe/Middle East on a single flight number/or by surface is considered travelling SWP-Asia-Europe through three continents". Seems like this would still result in a minimum of a xONE4 from Australia.

This is what I was afraid of - a rule like this.

If they don't abolish this rule, then to avoid "wasting" a continental zone, you would either need to fly to Europe from Asia on another carrier besides QF (viz. BA, CX or AY); or make the intercontinental sector Asia - DXB, picking up QF to LHR from there (bit of a waste); or start the xONEx in Asia.

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[JohnM]

The current xONEx rules state "Travel between South West Pacific and Europe/Middle East on a single flight number/or by surface is considered travelling SWP-Asia-Europe through three continents". Seems like this would still result in a minimum of a xONE4 from Australia.

Ouch! I did express a concern about a possible sting in the tail in my earlier post. Must have had a feeling it sounded too good to be true. Never had occasion to take such a detailed note of that rule, so thanks for pointing it out.


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[here2go]

Qantas don't host Air North but both airlines are system users of the Amadeus GDS. That's just like saying CX or BA host Air North. I don't see why Air North would have to migrate to Sabre just to have a marketing arrangement with DJ. QF and AA have managed to have code-share arrangements for some years now despite being users of Amadeus & Sabre respectively.

The way I read the Air North website is that Qantas host them in Amadeus. Corporate profile | Airnorth. Not knowing a lot about back-ends of GDS software, I'm assuming it would be like creating a separate company in an SAP system, so for Qantas, this would not be a big deal as it would have a myriad of these. QF Domestic, International, Link, Jetconnect, etc.

If DJ fly to ASP, it will be different as DJ have a premium product, which will keep business travellers a bit more happy.

 

[Berlin]

A lot will depend on whether you can earn SCs on ALL EK flights or only on code share flights. And if it's the latter, I wonder which ones will be code shared. Particularly the following I'm not yet clear about, apologies if it has been answered already somewhere in this 100+ pages monster-thread...

1. Can you use EK's services out of Australia that stop over in Asia on the way to Dubai? If yes, then you'd still have the option to stop over in Asia rather than only in Dubai
2. Are you allowed to fly on EK into LHR or will you have to fly QF to this one destination if you want QF points and SCs?
3. What about New Zealand- are the trans-tasman EK flights covered through this agreement? What about the pricing if they are- will they adjust their prices on this route to the ones Qantas "offers" :shock:?
4. What about the US- it seems like no code sharing here at least. If you can still earn QF SCs on those EK flights, might be a nice way to travel to the states in style and to avoid LAX, even though travel time will be longer which is not necessarily a bad thing on an A380 in Emirates J

 

[here2go]

Interesting reading. Suggests some long waits in DXB if not flying to LHR.

Dubai deal shakes up Qantas network

 

[marks]

I do like this logo...

 

[smeacs]

So has there been any mention of the expected timeline before ACCC etc approves this deal?

 

[avlawyer82]

I'm a basic QF Frequent Flyer and QANTAS Club Member who has recently flown with Emirates on a series of return flights from London/Dubai and Dubai/Mauritius. I've also had the opportunity to experience the PAX experience at Dubai's International Airport. Having recently experienced it, I am sorry to report that it was not up to the standard that I think most QF members would come to associate with QANTAS.


I certainly applaud QANTAS' management in exploiting new, cost saving initiatives to remain competitive. A more competitive hub in the middle-east is a certainly attractive option. However, the poor customer service I experienced on Emirates makes me question as to what cost to the passenger comfort/experience is being traded off for this new hub.


I have written to Emirates with my concerns about a month ago – and (hardly surprisingly) the lack of customer focus continues – with no response yet to my email. In essence, I found Emirates:

1. Very outdated with its inflight décor (very old padding on seats and broken entertainment systems);
   
   
2. A lack of foresight/alternative planning when the flight entertainment system went down;
   
3. Lack of customer focus in the service of drinks/meals/snacks or responses to customer service calls;
   
4. Obvious staff disengagement;
   
5. Lack of smooth airport transfers/transitions between flights.

I've attached below some of the specific points raised in my complaint to Emirates – just to see if any other members here have had the same difficulties. Now that this alliance is set to come into place in 2013, I think I'll be making sure that any connections I need from LHR to BNE (via DXB/SYD) are only on QANTAS operated aircraft to ensure that I can expect the highest levels of service.


Has anyone else had concerns with Emirates?


(Extract of email to Emirates)
I refer, in particular, to my flight on EK3706 on 11 September 2012, from Mauritius to Dubai. My key areas of concern were that:

1. The inflight entertainment system was in-operative and was a wide-spread fault throughout the plane for the vast amount of passengers. No alternative options one would expected to have seen (and for which I have often been provided for in my travels) - including newspapers, magazines - were offered. Various airlines I have flown on have been readily prepared for such eventualities - however no forward planning seemed to have taken place on this flight.

2. That during the course of the flight, I sought to seek the attention of a flight attendant for either a drink or reading material and on each occasion - my "call assistant" button was ignored. In the space of a six hour flight, I pressed the flight attendant button 8 times - but to no avail. Not one of the attendants on duty came to check on the reason for the call. Indeed, despite various attendants passing my location - my call button had been ignored. Are you able to provide an explanation as to how this was permitted to occur?;

3. Thirdly, when pressed to stop a fllight attendant who wandered past (and ignored the lit flight attendant marker above my seat), I was then often re-buffed with an excuse of how they are just arranging now to prepare the meal service or just attending to another task now - and that an attendant would be with me shortly - but none arrived.. In essence, I was made to feel that my requests were more of a nuisisance and inconvenience;

4. Finally, on arrival into Dubai, I've noticed that flights into Dubai (outside of the major routes) seemed to be parked at the furthest end of the airport - making transfer to the airport unusually long to what I have been used to. Whilst I accept that this is not specifically an issue isolated to the airline, I note that QANTAS members will no doubt be expecting direct terminal access in Terminal 3. Can you confirm if this is something that, as part of the codeshare, that QANTAS flights via Dubai will have the direct airbridge access to the Terminal?

Award winning service has been touted as a key benefit to the QANTAS/Emirates alliance (Qantas and Emirates: together connecting the globe - YouTube ) however I found this distinctly lacking on my recent trip on Emirates and it is unfortunate that on this occasion, my feedback to other QANTAS frequent flyers and QANTAS club members via our frequent flyer blog on my experience on Emirates is a negative one.

Can I take your assurance that you will consider this feedback and try to ascertain how the service on this particular flight fell short of the high standards that you, no doubt, set and for which similar QANTAS flyers will expect from 2013.