Qantas 'Enhances' Upgrade Rates

[CaptJCool]

QF Advantage is its has lots of business travellers. The company or Govt pay the fare not the individual.

And there's a 10% GST credit and 30% IT deduction...
And for the individual running an ABN. There's those plus say via Aquire 15% off full fare ?

So a $7000 business fare costs say 15% less then. 40% less - $3400. - cheap by half although I do love this story

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-royal-commission-this-unbelievable-4667.html

which went viral like a wildfire but which truth has been described on page 6 http://www.supremecourt.wa.gov.au/_files/AustralianInstituteOfCompanyDirectors_02082007.pdf

 

[serfty]

[/FONT]

I understand how people want extra J and F seats to open up, but realistically the majority of international flights that Qantas operate are full by the time the flight departs anyway. If it's working the way it is at the moment with the 'low' numbers of reward seats given out, then why would they change it?. ...

I would suggest they are being filled with PAX using points to upgrade:

...
Most flights I am on depart full in business, even though it may have been D9 [or I9] two days before.

People are beginning to expect to be upgraded and this this may have changed PAX [booking] behavior - to the point it may have been reducing some revenue streams - this increase may go some way to resurrect that.

 

[katiebell]

25% increase in points required for J -> F upgrade lottery for UK-Aus. But no matching 25% increase in earning rates. Really Qantas, how do you explain this as fairer and simpler? What is becoming simpler is looking elsewhere for something fairer.

I think we should be complaining a lot more about this massive points inflation (unless you like collecting toasters).

 

[TheInsider]

Really Qantas, how do you explain this as fairer and simpler? What is becoming simpler is looking elsewhere for something fairer.

I don't think they have ever said that this change was 'fairer and simpler'. Also from what I recall, that term was used over 2.5 years ago now.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I don't think they have ever said that this change was 'fairer and simpler'. Also from what I recall, that term was used over 2.5 years ago now.

True but some can't let it go.....

 

[RichardMEL]

We have seen some move towards the Delta style system of offering more "cheaper" premium fares to induce us to purchase up as much as upgrade.

I think of what I call the recent "stealth" domestic J sale (not advertised, but some good rates) and some other moves to lower, at least in some markets, some premium fares (I'm being selective here before someone pulls up an outrageous example to counter this comment ).

Basically what DL has found/done is that if they sell (dom) F fares at a lower price they will still get decent yield and get pax paying up to sit there rather than do the lottery as suddenly it becomes a value proposition for them vs ridiculous. Sure, DL in the US is *FAR* different to QF here - obviously - but it wouldn't surprise me if we see a bit more price cutting, or more frequent sale fares on some routes, in premium cabins. They may be gambling on that sweet spot where supply meets demand at the right price where that gamble on the lottery isn't worth it. I recall reading a report that DL has now a much higher % of paid F seats vs upgrades due to this strategy. Of course this is hardly mew given many of us have taken advantage of the AA YUPP fares for awhile (and UA has had similar)

It could even be time for QF to try something like that here - I suspect it would be quite popular.


As for the reaction in the thread - I think most of us are not really surprised. Annoyed yes.. disappointed yes... but it's not a massive shock.

 

[mviy]

With the low upgrade success rate for lower status levels and CCs offering huge sign up bonuses at the moment I expect there'll still be many with sufficient points to request upgrades.

 

[CaptJCool]

With the low upgrade success rate for lower status levels and CCs offering huge sign up bonuses at the moment I expect there'll still be many with sufficient points to request upgrades.

Which are only available if paying Pax don't roll up.

I'm sure yield management has sufficient sophistication to workout how many

classic rewards points seats
points plus pay at the higher rate (except when specials are on where the paying customer recoups points usage by status credits and points earn)
discount fares
restricted
flexible fares
upgrade requests via status level and fare class...
no shows and op-ups

the mix of business (someone else pays or the business head pays their own fares) v leisure (you pay your own)
would form an interesting discussion

 

[serfty]

I generally do keep a close eye on seat map and loading in the week, days and hours before an international flight I am taking. I have been doing it for over a decade.

From this I have gathered that over the last 18 months, in most cases 20%-40% of the business class cabins are filled by people using points to upgrade.

Now this could be influenced by the the flights being relatively lightly loaded (as I am often on an award), but in years gone past (before upgrades to the gate) it was not unusual for half a dozen business class seats to go out empty.

That is not the case any more ...

So, my conclusion is PAX behavior has changed - they are more likely to be upgraded with points than before, so with the odds more in their favour more are booking an upgradeable fare in anticipation rather than paying the premium with $$.

 

[JohnK]

True but some can't let it go.....

Should they? I still miss anytime access. I am sure some still miss anyseat awards.

We're not all the same....

 

[RichardMEL]

And I still miss UC's amongst other things

but I htink maybe the point is that harping on things that can't be changed is a bit like beating a dead horse.

 

[serfty]

And I still miss UC's amongst other things

but I htink maybe the point is that harping on things that can't be changed is a bit like beating a dead horse.

Sure ... but I still grimace at "Fairer" - fairer to whom? The shareholders of course ...

"Simpler" - I guess for those who prefer to only deal with small numbers ending in 0 or 5 ...

Anyway - I do understand why ... the 'game' is always changing. ...

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Which are only available if paying Pax don't roll up.

I'm sure yield management has sufficient sophistication to workout how many.

Yes, it does predict how many noshows there may be.

 

[JohnK]

And I still miss UC's amongst other things

I do too. The equivalent to 24,000 QFF points for a one-way upgrade to SE Asia. Never had the chance to fully utilise upgrade credits at the time.

but I htink maybe the point is that harping on things that can't be changed is a bit like beating a dead horse.

Not necessarily. I don't want to forget. It makes me feel better to remember what things were like in the past.

 

[katiebell]

I do too. The equivalent to 24,000 QFF points for a one-way upgrade to SE Asia. Never had the chance to fully utilise upgrade credits at the time.


Not necessarily. I don't want to forget. It makes me feel better to remember what things were like in the past.

Reminding the businesses we choose to use of the things that matter to us, the paying customers, does sometimes result in reinstatement of these things. The partial reversal of the silly cuts to SC & QFPs (Qantas pts as they are no longer FF pts) for routes that QF do not fly is an example. It took a while but it did happen.

Like JohnK it is good to remember what we lost and then reassess what matters and decide what we should do. At present QF are treating us like frogs in a saucepan with the temperature rising slowly. Unless we look back far enough then we do not see all that has been taken away and do not really understand the loss of benefits for our hard earned cash

 

[opusman]

but I htink maybe the point is that harping on things that can't be changed is a bit like beating a dead horse.

Harping on AFF was what got on arrival lounge access for WP after any time was removed. So it can be worthwhile.

 

[codash1099]

And I still miss UC's amongst other things

but I htink maybe the point is that harping on things that can't be changed is a bit like beating a dead horse.

If we forget what we've lost, we are destined to suffer salami treatment - having little bits removed without us noticing the overall effect. We wind up with nothing, but don't notice the difference.

 

[katiebell]

We have seen some move towards the Delta style system of offering more "cheaper" premium fares to induce us to purchase up as much as upgrade.

I think of what I call the recent "stealth" domestic J sale (not advertised, but some good rates) and some other moves to lower, at least in some markets, some premium fares (I'm being selective here before someone pulls up an outrageous example to counter this comment ).

Basically what DL has found/done is that if they sell (dom) F fares at a lower price they will still get decent yield and get pax paying up to sit there rather than do the lottery as suddenly it becomes a value proposition for them vs ridiculous. Sure, DL in the US is *FAR* different to QF here - obviously - but it wouldn't surprise me if we see a bit more price cutting, or more frequent sale fares on some routes, in premium cabins. They may be gambling on that sweet spot where supply meets demand at the right price where that gamble on the lottery isn't worth it. I recall reading a report that DL has now a much higher % of paid F seats vs upgrades due to this strategy. Of course this is hardly mew given many of us have taken advantage of the AA YUPP fares for awhile (and UA has had similar)

It could even be time for QF to try something like that here - I suspect it would be quite popular.


As for the reaction in the thread - I think most of us are not really surprised. Annoyed yes.. disappointed yes... but it's not a massive shock.

QF will now be thinking that these cuts were accepted so now it's time to look for another cut and then another. Not really surprised = acceptable behaviour for QF

 

[Longtoo]

Enhancing upgrade rate? QF please give me a break. This year, I asked for and got 4 international upgrade from Y to J. 100% success rate, 3 of them as PS. In some cases, I could see one or two empty J seat. I don't need any enhancement from QF. This is a devaluation of customer loyalty by QF. I would now in favour of discount J fare from any decent airlines before thinking about SC and points with QF.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Should they? I still miss anytime access. I am sure some still miss anyseat awards.

We're not all the same....

I cant say I really miss either. My point was that every time QF changes something to the detriment of the punters it's described as "Simpler and Fairer", it's getting old, really old IMO.