Qantas FF announcement 20 June - "biggest overhaul" in program history

[dajop]

My take on the QFF changes yesterday is that almost all of us here on AFF will be negatively impacted by the changes.

Most everyone reading this site is interested in award redemptions in premium cabins ...

Not all though, there are those of us who because of both availability and frequency or number of seats are happy to travel in Y. I do SIN/MEL returns about 8 times a year, and almost always in Y (not often on QF awards though due to availability constraints), so the drop in Y awards and surcharges should benefit me. Others have families in tow where business cabin is just too expensive and/or not available. So certainly there will be some that benefit from the changes.

 

[burmans]

How are people with AU addresses joining BAEC when they don't allow SW Pacific residents to join? (attempting to join EC with a AU/NZ address redirects you to CX with a message to join MPC instead).

Mistyping Australia as Austria, straight out lying?

 

[jonboixxx]

Nah, I don't think they do.

Everyone believes their own personal behaviour is what Qantas should reward with priorities and upgrades and separation from masses.

At the end of the day, compare the margins selling Qantas points vs selling airfares.

As bronze punters continue to endlessly rack up points they can never use they will eventually stop bothering to earn them (like I have with a bunch of meaningless programs - FlyBuys, MyerOne and now Telstra rewards....lame). Qantas is trying to keep them engaged because that's where all the profit is.

I watched Alan blab on about longboards and cassette players during the release, then the most compelling statement was when he mentioned 35% of total credit card spend on Roo cards. He realises there are those like myself that churn 5M+ points/year and only dabble in QantasFF as a backup because of product/staff/service/premium accessibility issues. If he is to grow the increasingly profitable FF business he needs to grab more of the massive points pool that does not flow his way. For me, it's about relevance and accessibility and Qantas is not there yet. Like it or not, the Points Club initiative could be a game changer for a lot of us. Just saying.

 

[wandersen]

I'm not sure this has been mentioned, but it certainly is not the biggest overhaul in the program history!

- What about the move 25 years ago to move from EQK to status credits. Before then only "Golds" (which was top tier) got free Qantas Club and OW didn't exist.
- Then there was the change about 2001 when they removed the blue / silver / gold tiers and went to Bronze, Gold, Platinum. That was when they introduced upgrade credits which were soon abandoned after the demise of Ansett (if I recall)?

I remember back in those days putting my company's monthly telephone bill on my personal Qantas Telstra Visa Card which gave 10 points per dollar for Telstra transactions

Much bigger changes.

 

[11sjw]

I'm dumbfounded by the people who suggest frequent spenders should somehow be afforded some of the premium benefits of the Frequent Flyer program.

If QF are making similar money from them isn't it up to QF to determine whether or not they obtain benefits?

 

[PineappleSkip]

And there were the infamous status 'enhancements', a couple of rounds of those IIRC. This time they didn't touch status benefits, and didn't use the E word at all. Thanks for not going there, Olivia.

cheers skip

 

[motef]

Any mail for me is making it to somewhere probably non-existent in Austria...! Oops.

There is a pub in Bournemouth that is getting my mail

 

[Max Samuels]

He realises there are those like myself that churn 5M+ points/year and only dabble in QantasFF...

So few people would churn through 5M+/year that if they wanted to target those people it would be easier and more efficient to target them personally rather than overhaul the entire program...

 

[burmans]

Agree with that. Frequent FLYER program.

Yeah so its clearly misnamed. We know but I really think you need to move on, it is what it is regardless of the name.

 

[DaveB]

Will be interesting to see the details on rewarding high points holders though the 150K entry level tier reported thus far represents an extremely low bar barely covering points achieved with opening one new card account.
The changes to me continue the transition QF has been undergoing in it's Rewards Program recognising FFers, particularly those not paying for a J/F seat are nowhere near as important in the airline producing a profit, a problem our airline industry has struggled with going back even during the Ansett duopoly days.
Airlines are recognising that a key to their financial stability is through their reward points programs.
QF surveyed corporate businesses at least twice over the past few years learning how much of the market they were missing out on. The reality is one corporate business owner typically has the same worth to QF as around 3-5 P1's with the important proviso being all travel has to be in J or F.
QF though will need to make a move to reintegrate the Amex Corporate Platinum card since market moves by Amex have made this card far more useful than the already integrated Business Platinum account despite that card being used by company employees and having a 12.5% higher points earn rate.

 

[jonboixxx]

So few people would churn through 5M+/year that if they wanted to target those people it would be easier and more efficient to target them personally rather than overhaul the entire program...

... hence why Qantas feels the need for Points Club to try and arbitrage the quantum of points they currently are not looking at.
Qantas Points Club is aimed at "high buyers", not high flyers

 

[downgraded]

So few people would churn through 5M+/year that if they wanted to target those people it would be easier and more efficient to target them personally rather than overhaul the entire program...

With the credit card changes that introduced more surcharges for more cards the cost of FF points earned by using a CC has become more transparent. Perhaps they were seeing a tailing off and needed some added incentives to keep the gravy train running?

Have changed from a weekly flying WP to earning 40SC this calendar year so far, but have LTG in the bank. No chance of ever making LTP, but with so little travel and an intention of therefore doing it in better style, the LTG with QF may never get used (which I guess is the reason why realistically the cost of LTG and LTP for QF must actually be minimal, it's just a big carrot).

 

[opusman]

And there were the infamous status 'enhancements', a couple of rounds of those IIRC. This time they didn't touch status benefits, and didn't use the E word at all. Thanks for not going there, Olivia.

Remember when domestic discount fares were not upgradeable? Ah those were the days...

 

[Max Samuels]

... hence why Qantas feels the need for Points Club to try and arbitrage the quantum of points they currently are not looking at.
Qantas Points Club is aimed at "high buyers", not high flyers

It will certainly be interesting to see..... who actually knows the value of a point? Just look at the FF store and see how much they charge... 171k for an Ipad? iPad = about $1000. Or you can get SYD-LAX rtn in J for about the same which can be as much as $16k or even more.... the relationship between $$ and points is not fixed, or even understood, it seems....

 

[Mike65]

The Lifetime Platinum is an utter Joke. In order to get Platinum over Gold, it goes from 600 to 1200 status Credits in a year to retain. Lifetime Gold is 3,500. As I have over 17,000 status credits, I thought I would be in line for Lifetime Platinum. But it's 75,000 Status credits which is over 20 times that of Gold. What a disgrace. What a joke. I thought the person on the phone at Qantas was having me on, but she was serious and trying to keep a straight face over the phone this afternoon when I called. Just a disgrace.

Ah, LTG is actually 14,000SC so about 10 years of Platinum to reach LTP and LTP is therefore "only" just over 5xLTG. At the 1200SC per year WP requal threshold that's actually 63 years to LTP. Good luck with that.....
BTW, quite a few people earn 5000+ SCs per year so "only" 15 years to LTP !

 

[downgraded]

quite a few people earn 5000+ SCs per year so "only" 15 years to LTP

And that's the point isn't it - 15 years for LTP on that basis is probably not unreasonable. I doubt QF is even thinking about the WP who just scrapes in each year on the back of DSCs when they target LTP.

 

[serfty]

I'm not sure this has been mentioned, but it certainly is not the biggest overhaul in the program history!

- What about the move 25 years ago to move from EQK to status credits. Before then only "Golds" (which was top tier) got free Qantas Club and OW didn't exist.
- Then there was the change about 2001 when they removed the blue / silver / gold tiers and went to Bronze, Gold, Platinum. That was when they introduced upgrade credits which were soon abandoned after the demise of Ansett (if I recall)?

I remember back in those days putting my company's monthly telephone bill on my personal Qantas Telstra Visa Card which gave 10 points per dollar for Telstra transactions

Much bigger changes.

I agree - it was hardly the "biggest Overhaul in the Program History" - or even close to it.

It was September 1998 when Tier Credits were introduced along with the change from KM or 80 "flights" to get top level Gold status and free lounge access.

TC were replaced just a year later with SC and at the same timethe status qualifying levels were varied somewhat with a nett result of slightly easier to attain status.

Until 2001 it was 1 point per Km in full Y, discount economy (B class or 'less') was 0.7 points per Km - no status bonus (I have a mix of 707 and 495 points earning flights MEL/SYD). Earn was 100% of miles distance in all eligible economy classes. Old (Top Level) Gold received a 100% bonus and the 1k minimum was introduced so earn increased for me.

Then the were the May 2005 changes (announced in November 2004) which were far more significant:
- change from confirmed International Upgrades to waitlist
- minimum fare class to apply for upgrades internationally
- significant increase in upgrade and redemption points costs
- elimination of upgrade credits

 

[dajop]

It will certainly be interesting to see..... who actually knows the value of a point? Just look at the FF store and see how much they charge... 171k for an Ipad? iPad = about $1000. Or you can get SYD-LAX rtn in J for about the same which can be as much as $16k or even more.... the relationship between $$ and points is not fixed, or even understood, it seems....

Oh some people may well know it. But you have a family of 6 to cater for, all kids at school, one needing an ipad. What utility is a SYD-LAX return in J for this person vs ipad? Using the points for an ipad is going to save them $1k, whereas a single return to LAX in J probably is worthless to them (and it's a stretch to say that's worth $16k or more, you can get such fares these days for closer to $5k, if not on QF then definitely on someone else, and probably easier to find than an award flight as well.).

 

[OATEK]

<SNIP>

At the end of the day, compare the margins selling Qantas points vs selling airfares.

I watched Alan blab on about longboards and cassette players during the release, then the most compelling statement was when he mentioned 35% of total credit card spend on Roo cards. He realises there are those like myself that churn 5M+ points/year and only dabble in QantasFF as a backup because of product/staff/service/premium accessibility issues. If he is to grow the increasingly profitable FF business he needs to grab more of the massive points pool that does not flow his way. For me, it's about relevance and accessibility and Qantas is not there yet. Like it or not, the Points Club initiative could be a game changer for a lot of us. Just saying.

While yesterday was all about points and status, there would be no points business without them first having an airline. So regardless of the difference in margins between fares and selling points, and the huge market for points with non-flyers, underneath it all is an airline that needs to have people happy to fly with them.

 

[Rich]

Now, as we all know, unless by way of some DSC-driven crazy status run, spending $2,100/year directly with the airline is not enough to achieve or maintain Gold - not really even close see....

It is not the spend that matters it is the profit to QANTAS. They are going to make a lot more profit out of a $2100 payment from a credit card company than they are from $2100 in airfares.