Qantas FF announcement 20 June - "biggest overhaul" in program history

[Vic]

Now, as we all know, unless by way of some DSC-driven crazy status run, spending $2,100/year directly with the airline is not enough to achieve or maintain Gold - not really even close assuming normal domestic travel patterns.... maybe at 1,000,000 points (approx. $13k) we would be getting close... but that's a lot of points. In a single year. Even with accelerators, like 3x points for certain purchases, we are still talking about annual credit card spends of $300k... which is not most people.

$10/ status credit is easily achievable for a regular flyer. minus the status bonus, that $5500 to retain gold. With a little bit of effort $8/ status credit is possible.

 

[Vic]

The first rule of the Points Club is: You do not talk about the Points Club. The second rule of the Points Club is: You do not talk about the Points Club.

Are you saying points club is the invention of multiple personality disorder?
lol

 

[CaptJCool]

$10/ status credit is easily achievable for a regular flyer. minus the status bonus, that $5500 to retain gold. With a little bit of effort $8/ status credit is possible.

Earlier up the thread with DSC Gold is achievable for $3,450.. domestic dog leg

And the creative thinking of international DPS or NOU was delivering 1,300 for $2,500

 

[sxc]

Many have said that QF redemption levels are the worst in oneworld. To put things in perspective, however, you need to take your earn rate into account. I will compare the SYD-HKG route with CX for a emerald member of Asia miles, and a Platinum member of QF:

Asia Miles:
11,500 earn per J return (there is no status multiplier for CX status members)
90,000 for a J redemption
7.8 return trips to earn a redemption

Qantas:
26,000 earn per J return
136,800 for a J redemption
5.3 return trips to earn a redemption

So firstly, those who say that too much is being given to those who only earn miles on the ground - you can see that if you're not earning your miles from flying, the earn effort in QF is much higher. Secondly, compared to other programs, if you're a Platinum, your earn rate is much higher which means it actually isn't so hard to earn your redemption compared to some other programs.

 

[teamhamsandwich]

I don't understand the points club to get status/lounge access hate. These are people that generally don't fly and earn their points via credit cards to spend on toasters. I doubt lounge access is enough to tip them over to flying over the qantas store. They won't be clogging up the lounges too much.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I don't understand the points club to get status/lounge access hate. These are people that generally don't fly and earn their points via credit cards to spend on toasters. I doubt lounge access is enough to tip them over to flying over the qantas store. They won't be clogging up the lounges too much.

My guess is the lounge voucher would be free upon earning xx_,xx_ points within Y timeframe.

Lounge vouchers are great (for QF) because they cost nothing unless the passenger actually fly, in which case there is a revenue ticket to pay for the voucher.
If the voucher is for domestic lounges it's even better because the cost for one entry is negligible since the lounges are sunk cost.

Personally, I hope Qantas is more creative and go with something like: For every 50,000 points earned from non-air, earn 50 QCredits that can be redeemed in a special/new store. QCredits expire after 24 months and in the special/new store are UNIQUE products such as lounge vouchers, double status credits on your next flight, double points earned on next flight, % bonus on points from your next credit card transfer, etc. Fundamentally, the reward you redeem for puts the focus back on the member where value is only realised for the member when they transact with QF in a new way in the future. This would drive incremental and desired loyalty behaviour.

The third currency also opens up new channels to monetize it through the existing partner network.

But it's clear from experience that Qantas fails to deliver on loyalty for members.

Keep those expectations low, everyone!

(Other airlines are doing exactly that above - QF is *NOT* a world leader in a Points Club type idea)

 

[I love to travel]

Ok so a week after the changes this is what i have done in response to them. Signed up for cc linked to Krisflyer. Still kept 1 cc to Qantas. Will close when other cc arrives in mail. Wait for exclusion period to end in 3 months and then apply for a Qantas linked cc for bonus points. In other words dual Krisflyer and QF strategy.
I still think the sting re status tiers is coming in Nov though.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Many have said that QF redemption levels are the worst in oneworld. To put things in perspective, however, you need to take your earn rate into account. I will compare the SYD-HKG route with CX for a emerald member of Asia miles, and a Platinum member of QF:

Asia Miles:
11,500 earn per J return (there is no status multiplier for CX status members)
90,000 for a J redemption
7.8 return trips to earn a redemption

Qantas:
26,000 earn per J return
136,800 for a J redemption
5.3 return trips to earn a redemption

So firstly, those who say that too much is being given to those who only earn miles on the ground - you can see that if you're not earning your miles from flying, the earn effort in QF is much higher. Secondly, compared to other programs, if you're a Platinum, your earn rate is much higher which means it actually isn't so hard to earn your redemption compared to some other programs.

Interesting analogy, thank you.

In relation to RTW and multi-city Classic Awards, I note that CX has an almost identical product that is 210,000 in J, compared to the new cost with QF @ 318,000 (>50% dearer).

And SQ charge 240,000 miles with no fuel surcharges on their own metal (but there may be surcharges on some partners). Not quite the same product but interesting comparison.

But I agree that the rate (and ease) of earning points in different programs & credit cards also needs to be taken into account.

 

[wandering_fred]

Many have said that QF redemption levels are the worst in oneworld. To put things in perspective, however, you need to take your earn rate into account. I will compare the SYD-HKG route with CX for a emerald member of Asia miles, and a Platinum member of QF:

Asia Miles:
11,500 earn per J return (there is no status multiplier for CX status members)
90,000 for a J redemption
7.8 return trips to earn a redemption

Qantas:
26,000 earn per J return
136,800 for a J redemption
5.3 return trips to earn a redemption

So firstly, those who say that too much is being given to those who only earn miles on the ground - you can see that if you're not earning your miles from flying, the earn effort in QF is much higher. Secondly, compared to other programs, if you're a Platinum, your earn rate is much higher which means it actually isn't so hard to earn your redemption compared to some other programs.

As CX does not have a status bonus for earning points, the comparison is quite different for the "ordinary" frequent flyer.
And as I recently found out, the ability to include a stopover can seriously change the number of points required for an award ticket.
Throw in the availability issues (consider AA's "indirect routing" for domestic USA awards and things become "simpler and fairer" quickly.

QFF is still quite easy to obtain status (and there are many ways to game the process) but unless QFF seat availability becomes "interesting" there are and will continue to be better programs for finding seats.

Just wandering
Fred

 

[defurax]

It seems that QF are releasing more J seats at short notice. At least 9 J classic reward seats on MEL-SIN July 18, 19 and 20.

Personally I don't really like the concept as I use my points for upgrade...but you can't please everyone!

 

[downgraded]

Personally I don't really like the concept as I use my points for upgrade

I guess it encourages the need to book the cabin you want to travel in. It'll eat up the points faster and perhaps drive more cash purchases of the premium cabin, or drive you elsewhere on the expectation of not getting the upgrade so look for BFOD instead!

 

[defurax]

I guess it encourages the need to book the cabin you want to travel in. It'll eat up the points faster and perhaps drive more cash purchases of the premium cabin, or drive you elsewhere on the expectation of not getting the upgrade so look for BFOD instead!

In my case it is all work travel in flexible economy, so upgrades are quite cheap. The QF program works really well for me as I have a nearly 100% upgrade success. As I said QF can't please everyone, I'll see what happens to my upgrade success rate in the future, although next year I'll be P1, so maybe not the best reference.

 

[11sjw]

Ok so a week after the changes this is what i have done in response to them. Signed up for cc linked to Krisflyer. Still kept 1 cc to Qantas. Will close when other cc arrives in mail. Wait for exclusion period to end in 3 months and then apply for a Qantas linked cc for bonus points. In other words dual Krisflyer and QF strategy.
I still think the sting re status tiers is coming in Nov though.

Reason for choosing KrisFlyer? Not questioning your choice, genuinely interested as I'm contemplating Marco Polo v KrisFlyer.

 

[Doctore1003]

It seems that QF are releasing more J seats at short notice. At least 9 J classic reward seats on MEL-SIN July 18, 19 and 20.

Thanks for the tip! Just switched from PE to J for my flight next week

 

[Danger]

I don't understand the points club to get status/lounge access hate. These are people that generally don't fly and earn their points via credit cards to spend on toasters. I doubt lounge access is enough to tip them over to flying over the qantas store. They won't be clogging up the lounges too much.

No hate from me but from my perspective my disappointment, as mentioned, is because it's a program designed for frequent flyer, not frequent buyer. It's still called the Qantas Frequent Flyer program (although it hasn't been Qantas Frequent Flyer points for some time). I have no issue with the principle of the Points Club but would be very annoyed if it came with any level of status. The odd lounge pass, a discount on redemptions in the store etc. In my opinion, material flying benefits shouldn't be based on non-flying activity.

Ok so a week after the changes this is what i have done in response to them. Signed up for cc linked to Krisflyer. Still kept 1 cc to Qantas. Will close when other cc arrives in mail. Wait for exclusion period to end in 3 months and then apply for a Qantas linked cc for bonus points. In other words dual Krisflyer and QF strategy.
I still think the sting re status tiers is coming in Nov though.

Which card, may I ask?

In relation to RTW and multi-city Classic Awards, I note that CX has an almost identical product that is 210,000 in J, compared to the new cost with QF @ 318,000 (>50% dearer).

And SQ charge 240,000 miles with no fuel surcharges on their own metal (but there may be surcharges on some partners). Not quite the same product but interesting comparison.

But I agree that the rate (and ease) of earning points in different programs & credit cards also needs to be taken into account.

But are you comparing apples with apples? Hilton's top category redemption is (I think) 95k but Hyatt's is 30k. Does that make Hilton three times as expensive? No.
Interesting analogy, thank you.

 

[sxc]

As CX does not have a status bonus for earning points, the comparison is quite different for the "ordinary" frequent flyer.

Yes true. On the other hand, then it's also arguably more justified for CX members to complain that their program is rewarding non flyers more than flyers.

 

[Vic]

Earlier up the thread with DSC Gold is achievable for $3,450.. domestic dog leg

And the creative thinking of international DPS or NOU was delivering 1,300 for $2,500

sure. I was replying with the standard cost to a post based on not using double status or unique flying.

 

[I love to travel]

Which card, may I ask?

ST GEORGE Amplify

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have no issue with the principle of the Points Club but would be very annoyed if it came with any level of status. The odd lounge pass, a discount on redemptions in the store etc. In my opinion, material flying benefits shouldn't be based on non-flying activity.

But by the same token I guess there are those full-fare paying business class passengers that don't enjoy being stuck in the MEL QFi dungeon fighting for a party pie with those bronzes and silvers who are now all gold through DSCs.

QF have basically thrown the doors open to their lounges for anyone and everyone.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

I find the whole “but status is for *flyers*” argument roughly as convincing as “Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve” sort of bs.