Qantas First Class "Nothing more than a premium business class"

[DC3]

With SQ being majority government-owned, wouldn’t that have a bearing on cash that can be put into the business (i.e., potentially a bottomless pit) compared to privately owned QF? I’m angling towards the costs associated with maintaining a better hard product.

 

[DC3]

With SQ being majority government-owned, wouldn’t that have a bearing on cash that can be put into the business (i.e., potentially a bottomless pit) compared to privately owned QF? I’m angling towards the costs associated with maintaining a better hard product.

Edit: Much like the EK government subsidies, I guess. Not exactly a level playing field

 

[RooFlyer]

Edit: Much like the EK government subsidies, I guess. Not exactly a level playing field

Sure, but from a consumer's pont of view, who cares? If the taxpayers of Singapore want to subsidise my SQ experience, far be it for me to argue.

 

[Comoman]

With SQ being majority government-owned, wouldn’t that have a bearing on cash that can be put into the business (i.e., potentially a bottomless pit) compared to privately owned QF? I’m angling towards the costs associated with maintaining a better hard product.

SQ is listed on the Singapore stock exchange and QF is listed on the ASX. The Singapore govt owns 56% of the listed stock. Air NZ is also majority owned by the NZ govt for example so it’s far from unique. Just under 50% of QF stock is foreign owned (exact percentage varies).

The claim that QF/SQ is not a level playing field on an ownership level is ludicrous. Also remember the huge operating profit QF recently announced - they could improve their product they just choose not to.

 

[DC3]

I think that we must have differing views on what a level playing field actually is.

 

[DC3]

Sure, but from a consumer's pont of view, who cares? If the taxpayers of Singapore want to subsidise my SQ experience, far be it for me to argue.

I would hazard a guess that the tax payers in Singapore would have no say in this.

 

[Quickstatus]

Sure, but from a consumer's pont of view, who cares? If the taxpayers of Singapore want to subsidise my SQ experience, far be it for me to argue.

It is a universal truth that taxpayers have limited say in Govt expenditure - except via the Vote, which in SIN has limited utility

 

[Pushka]

I would hazard a guess that the tax payers in Singapore would have no say in this.

As if Australians have much say in where our Government chooses to spend that money.

 

[ajca]

With SQ being majority government-owned, wouldn’t that have a bearing on cash that can be put into the business (i.e., potentially a bottomless pit) compared to privately owned QF? I’m angling towards the costs associated with maintaining a better hard product.

Ah, no, Singapore Airlines is majority owned by Singapore's sovereign wealth fund Temasek as a long-term investment. The other 45% of the ownership is publicly listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange. With this capital structure it would make no sense for the Singapore government to subsidise SQ as 45% of the benefits would be flowing back to the public shareholders.

SQ is not in any way 'nationalised' or subsidised by the government and in fact the Singapore government has warned SQ that if they mismanage their business they will be allowed to fail, so they don't even have an implicit government backstop.

SQ does have many advantages over QF of course - starting with a government that had the vision to make Singapore into a global transportation hub (helped by its strategic geographic location of course). There's not much Australia can do about being an end of the line destination, by contrast.

This position as a transit hub gives SQ the passenger volume to invest in a bigger (and younger) fleet where they can more frequently evolve the hard product (even if they did get J basically completely right back in 2006 when they introduced the 1-2-1 seats)

SQ also has a lower cost structure in terms of wages and, shall we say, a friendlier and more stable industrial relations environment (ie SQ don't have to deal with the likes of the kamikaze mad man of the ALAEA... which must free up a lot of time and energy for execs to think about how to make the hard product better lol)

So no, Singapore government doesn't subsidise SQ and it is certainly not a "bottomless pit". SQ does have major strategic advantages over QF. That's why they have a better product in many respects. But to be fair to QF, I think they do very well considering the competitive position they are in.

 

[Quickstatus]

I've read every single post in this thread extensively, and with interest. It's amazing seeing all the perspectives from both F regulars and F newbies/"never-flown-F" folks alike. I must admit I did get drawn to the title (being a criticism/"bashing" of QF, especially QF F), so my input here may slightly be biased.

FWIW, I've only flown First Class once. It was a SQ Suites redemption on SQ218 MEL-SIN, which was the flight that kicked off my wife's and my honeymoon (we were headed to the Maldives and the second leg SIN-MLE was in MI Y, so a massive "downgrade" from SQ Suites and TPR at SIN). This entire itinerary was a surprise, as we had just finished going through 2 weddings, on two different continents, a week apart from each other. A break was needed and my wife was feeling the tiredness really badly. What better way than to treat her (and myself!) to an experience that I've had my eye on ever since I saw what points/miles/awards are capable of!

Being a "relatively" new entrant to the points/miles/awards game, I'm very surprised I was able to snag 2 x Suites awards on that flight, given I was making the booking only ~3 months before the flight. There were a few hiccups along the way (only 1 seat available for immediate Saver confirmation, the second available for immediate Advantage confirmation and Saver waitlist; learning the mistake of transferring points from my AmEx MR account to my wife's KF account, the "stern" letter from SQ regarding this, the eventual "refund" of points back to my MR account; the waitlist clearing the day before the flight so multiple calls to SQ later; and finally paying exorbitant rates for the SIN-MLE flight in full-flex Economy even though we didn't need the benefits of that fare class).

When it came time for the flight though, SQ Suites was all I expected, and then some. The crew brought out a honeymoon cake for us, with 2 teddy bears and a card signed by the captain as well as all the crew assigned to Suites. They took care of every need my wife and I had. We both BTC'd, but as it was meant to be a surprise, I BTC'd the famed Boston Lobster Thermidor for my wife. She is a massive seafood fan, but has never had the pleasure of Lobster, so this was the *perfect* opportunity to deliver on that. I've posted previously about my SQ Suites experience so I won't go any further, this post is already becoming too long (sorry!).

What I was getting at, is that I can't see another airline's F product achieving what my wife and I experienced on this flight. Especially not QF! Maybe EK/LH could do it, but I haven't seen any reports of this.

As a reference, I'm just a lowly maths teacher so of course my ability to rack up points faster than the spool-up of an A380 engine is nil/nada/zilch. So every flight that I get to take in J/F/Suites is cherished very much. As a further reference, we've only flown J once, and that was via an MHUpgrade system heading back to MEL from BLR after our first wedding ceremony. Even though it was MH J, it was a *massive* step-up from the purely Y flying that we had been accustomed to on every single flight prior to that one. It is during this journey that we learnt the difference between 'regional' J (it's just Y+, if that) and 'actual'/long-haul J (where you get a bed to sleep on, basically).

We're heading to Europe in December this year, having booked MEL-LHR and ZRH-MEL on SQ J. By the looks of it, we'll get to experience the "new" J seat double-bed on the ZRH-SIN leg so looking forward to that.
Planning on redeeming SQ Suites on the MEL-SIN-FRA-JFK journey for travel in July 2020. Though with the dummy bookings I've been doing it looks like the Northern Summer schedule has a 777-300ER plying the MEL-SIN leg which means that snagging 2 Saver F awards will be impossible, unless they bring the A380 back to this route.

TL;DR: SQ Suites is miles (pardon the pun) ahead of anything I've ever experienced and I doubt QF F will ever get there.

Thanks for your experience. It certainly provides a reference standard.

We too had our HM in the Maldives and that was in SQ Y many moons ago. Surprisingly A cake came our way too!!

 

[DC3]

Ah, no, Singapore Airlines is majority owned by Singapore's sovereign wealth fund Temasek as a long-term investment. The other 45% of the ownership is publicly listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange ..

Thank you, ajca. I respect you knowledge of SIN, as that is where you are based.

Getting a bit O/T here, but I am under the impression that Temasek is actually government controlled and not a free agent as such.

Edit: Not expressing a view on the situation, just my understanding

 

[Quickstatus]

Thank you, ajca. I respect you knowledge of SIN, as that is where you are based.

Getting a bit O/T here, but I am under the impression that Temasek is actually government controlled and not a free agent as such.

Edit: Not expressing a view on the situation, just my understanding

Whatever the actual practical control by SG government, their liquid foreign reserves controlled by MAS (monetary authority of SG) is over SG$300B while Temasek (generally the more commercially minded sovereign fund) is nearly SG$400B and the GIC (sovereign fund managing less liquid SG foreign reserves) which controls an undisclosed amount rumoured to be SG$100-300B.

So for a small island country with no natural resources or water, kicked out of a federation early in its life and borne of a swamp, they are doing quite well.

SG also constitutionally preserves Past Reserves accumulated under the previous terms of Govt, so an incumbent government cannot spend it all. Unlike what happens in AUS.

 

[tgh]

This thread ( which is a comprehensive demolition of QF_F) leads me to a mental image of AJ spending his easter with a selection of AFF dolls and a large box of long pins….

 

[kermatu]

This thread ( which is a comprehensive demolition of QF_F) leads me to a mental image of AJ spending his easter with a selection of AFF dolls and a large box of long pins….

Assumes they pay attention to any actual feedback and user experience.

 

[Quickstatus]

This thread ( which is a comprehensive demolition of QF_F) leads me to a mental image of AJ spending his easter with a selection of AFF dolls and a large box of long pins….

I have not experienced any pain this Easter, so I assume then I not a voodoo target.

Or maybe AJ is not too fussed about F patronage. I’ll bet that most of F pax are upgrades or staff travel. (Notwithstanding the odd celebrity or Boy Band who book out the entire F cabin)

I wouldn’t pay for an upgrade to F, but MrsQS is quite partial to QF F - every time we go J she reminds me to put in her F upgrade request. She doesn’t like EK F either - apparently preferring the more open plan QF F.

 

[33kft]

So while we're at it, given the differences between B737 and A330 J, is it an inconsistent product not worth retaining? At the end of the day as long as people know what they are booking, I don't see the problem. if the suggestion is that there's never been a return QF F revenue passenger or that if someone flew SQ suites they would never fly QF F again, I have to question that. Many of us fly premium cabins and yet have occasions where we fly Y, it's no big deal. Some people will fly a mixture of full service and budget airlines. Whilst it might not be fiscally worth it for QF to maintain, not being the premier product on the market doesn't mean your product doesn't have a place. Personally I care 400x more about QF getting Wifi on QFi flights than blinging out their F product.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Just returned form a Mel-SIN-Mel first class 'experience' on QF35-36
The Melbourne lounge is mostly busy by status FF-s not the real first class Pax,horrible eggs Benedict is served got a runny stomach after eating the over vinegary thing!

The same cheap metal combo both for the lounge and first class-all airlines around the world serve better in economy than this.

The only positive is the crew who were very friendly and chatty and the bed is comfy too!
Also on this trip I took SQ to Hanoi and Saigon on business class-short flights yet they provide a much better service!-book the cook to start with!
My conclusion please avoid this product and don't waste your points and money on them!To start with I had to fork out nearly a 1000$ just for taxes while I booked another ticket with AA points was hardly 200 $ so this is nothing more than a big rip off from Qantas!

I agree the lounge is all full of status FF's - which one are you, high or low status?

The birds are getting a refit and the cutlery is fit for purpose. Qantas actually does a decent job, its service is authentic and if you are a really high status FF you will know the most important drug is sleep which is something you can do well on QF. 1A is not 1A, go a bit further back, you'll be more content.

 

[pauly7]

The only time any of the FAs did anything beyond the minimum was during the compulsory 'lights out' after lunch, when one of them proactively came to my seat to open my window shade again for me because she had read on my profile that I dislike having to sit in the dark on a daytime flight. Most of the rest of the time after lunch the FAs weren't even to be seen, to the point that I had to press the call bell even to get water.

It’s funny peoples personal preferences. I flew CX’s First and the staff were circulating in high rotation offering everything from constant water top ups to the pilots first born! It was incredibly distracting! I’d much prefer after service they retire and be on call, maybe with one lap to clear every 30 mins but that’s my personal preference

 

[notqantas]

Just returned form a Mel-SIN-Mel first class 'experience' on QF35-36
Well to my opinion this product is nothing more than a premium business class if I want to be mild...
The interior is worn and torn,the pod like seating are awkward with no privacy sat in 1K.
The Melbourne lounge is mostly busy by status FF-s not the real first class Pax,horrible eggs Benedict is served got a runny stomach after eating the over vinegary thing!
The food on board is mediocre-not to mention the breakfast which is a simple disgrace and the cutlery???
The same cheap metal combo both for the lounge and first class-all airlines around the world serve better in economy than this.

The only positive is the crew who were very friendly and chatty and the bed is comfy too!
Also on this trip I took SQ to Hanoi and Saigon on business class-short flights yet they provide a much better service!-book the cook to start with!
My conclusion please avoid this product and don't waste your points and money on them!To start with I had to fork out nearly a 1000$ just for taxes while I booked another ticket with AA points was hardly 200 $ so this is nothing more than a big rip off from Qantas!

 

[Anna]

maybe with one lap to clear every 30 mins but that’s my personal preference

I'd be happy with one lap every 30 minutes too