Qantas First versus Business

[Kiwi Flyer]

Similarly on my last RTW I benefited from change in operating a/c. Booked in "A" class since it was 2 class a/c at the time of booking. Some time later UA changed to a 3 class a/c (much nicer). I still got to stay in first for the 4 hour flight.

 

[Homer]

Well you were right then KiwiFlyer, and Doh! is the appropriate response from Homer.

I've read a bit about maximising the value of the RTW ticket on this forum. In this thread, odoherty wrote:

For example, when you return to Sydney, don't just finish it there. Perhaps book SYD-PER (stop) and then PER-ADL-SYD.

In the Qantas fare rules, it states that you can only make one non-stop flight between SYD and PER. Does that mean I can do, for example, SYD-PER-SYD-CNS-SYD on return (stopping in PER and stopping in CNS) as separate trips (eg SYD-PER-SYD on return and then next year for example, SYD-CNS-SYD)?

 

[Dave Noble]

In the Qantas fare rules, it states that you can only make one non-stop flight between SYD and PER. Does that mean I can do, for example, SYD-PER-SYD-CNS-SYD on return (stopping in PER and stopping in CNS) as separate trips (eg SYD-PER-SYD on return and then next year for example, SYD-CNS-SYD)?

No. You are only allowed 2 stopovers in continent of origin

If you stop in Sydney on entry into Australia, that will be the 1st
If you stop in Perth , that will be the second pemitted stop and the next stop will have to be the termination point of the ATW ticket

Dave

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

In the Qantas fare rules, it states that you can only make one non-stop flight between SYD and PER. Does that mean I can do, for example, SYD-PER-SYD-CNS-SYD on return (stopping in PER and stopping in CNS) as separate trips (eg SYD-PER-SYD on return and then next year for example, SYD-CNS-SYD)?

No. You can only have one flight between PER and SYD/BNE/MEL/CNS.

So you could do SYD-PER-ADL-SYD-CNS and finish there, or SYD-PER-CBR with separate ticket CBR-SYD then resume SYD-CNS-SYD.

Subject of course to the stopover rule as pointed out by Dave Noble, and assuming at the start of your RTW the first flight is not a domestic one.

 

[pax1a]

I was just on QF 127 from SYD to HKG in the pointy-end. The aircraft was fitted with VOD but the first class video players had been removed. This was a real pity; the first class video library had a lot more variety then the VOD system.

Anyway.... have done 2 oneworld explorers in First. Must admit have been disappointed with the availability of first on many sectors and have had to travel business and hence you question paying for first. Even when there is a first class cabin, the discount first A class seems to be pretty limited. Worst offender was the American Airline sectors, just hopeless, Qantas and BA have been great.


regards
pax.

Welcome to AFF Homer

It's a matter of personal preference as to whether or not it is worth it. First class travel is very nice, but there is less difference between business and first than between economy and business.

Note that intra-europe flights don't have first, and intra-US flights (except QF on LAX-JFK which you aren't taking anyway) get first class on a DONEx anyway (on 2-class flights, which is most of them).

So upgrading a DONEx to an AONEx is only for the longhaul sectors, but these are also the ones with the best first experience. With your routing you could sample first class on 3 of the 4 best in one world - QF, CX and BA.

One point to correct your post. If an aircraft has AVOD it has it in all cabins. As pointed out, QF first additionally has a video player.

 

[Dave Noble]

Even when there is a first class cabin, the discount first A class seems to be pretty limited. Worst offender was the American Airline sectors, just hopeless, Qantas and BA have been great.[/COLOR]

It's a discounted 1st class inventory; can't be too surprised if they limit capacity on it. With AA, A class ( other than for oddities such as AONEs and AGLOBs ) is an upgrade class for mileage upgrades and , domestically, some YUP fares rather than a class that is offered for sale which is why it can be hard to obtain

Dave

 

[thadocta]

I was expecting it would be picked up with the ticket was issued, but it was not. And then I was expecting it would be picked up at Check-in, but it was not. Then I was expecting the boarding pass to be rejected at the gate reader, but it wasn't. So I sat back and enjoyed the CS F service for 14 hours .

Life is TOUGH, isn't it!!!!!!!

Dave

 

[NM]

Anyway.... have done 2 oneworld explorers in First. Must admit have been disappointed with the availability of first on many sectors and have had to travel business and hence you question paying for first. Even when there is a first class cabin, the discount first A class seems to be pretty limited. Worst offender was the American Airline sectors, just hopeless, Qantas and BA have been great.

This is why I use business class OneWorld Explorer fares. Better value generally. Then I use QF FF points or Upgrade Credits to fly F for the long routes when it is available. Hopefully I will soon be able to similarly upgrade AA legs to F using VIPOWs. And thankfully CX have upgrade me to F each time I have done a trans-Pacific flight with them (3 out of 3).

 

[Nightwatchman]

I'm joining this dicussion a little late, but I have found in F that when the seat is in the 'bed' position, your feet are slightly higher than your head. - which is kinda unnatural (especially immediately following steak sandwich and Crown Lager).

J has the opposite issue, where you can wake up to find you have slid down and got tangled in your seat belt - but of the two sleeping positions I prefer my head higher than my feet.

I feel I get more out of F on a day flight (e.g. 127), where I can enjoy the amenities, rather than sleeping most of the way home.

 

[NM]

I'm joining this dicussion a little late, but I have found in F that when the seat is in the 'bed' position, your feet are slightly higher than your head. - which is kinda unnatural (especially immediately following steak sandwich and Crown Lager).

This is why I generally find myself with the seat not quite fully reclined. Just a slight raise of the head is more comfortable for me. And sleep should always be preceded by the steak sandwich (only available on flights from Australia now).

I feel I get more out of F on a day flight (e.g. 127), where I can enjoy the amenities, rather than sleeping most of the way home.

Have to agree with you there. If you are going to sleep for the majority of the flight then J is very nice. If you are awake to enjoy the extras, then F is worth it.

 

[serfty]

I'm joining this dicussion a little late, but I have found in F that when the seat is in the 'bed' position, your feet are slightly higher than your head. - which is kinda unnatural (especially immediately following steak sandwich and Crown Lager). ...

This is due the the aircraft actually cruising with a slight nose up attitude, sometimes called "angle of incidence".

If an F "Flat" bed was fully 'reclined', it would be horizontal when the aircraft was stationary on level ground and when cruising, the head of the bed becomes actually lower than the feet area.

 

[Nightwatchman]

This is due the the aircraft actually cruising with a slight nose up attitude, sometimes called "angle of incidence".

If an F "Flat" bed was fully 'reclined', it would be horizontal when the aircraft was stationary on level ground and when cruising, the head of the bed becomes actually lower than the feet area.

I remember reading about this, and also that some airlines allow for it in their seat design?

 

[NM]

This is due the the aircraft actually cruising with a slight nose up attitude, sometimes called "angle of incidence".

If an F "Flat" bed was fully 'reclined', it would be horizontal when the aircraft was stationary on level ground and when cruising, the head of the bed becomes actually lower than the feet area.

Since people only fully recline the seat when the aircraft is in cruise, it would make sense that fully reclined is in fact horizontal in that situation.

I have heard of some people sleeping with their head forward and feet aft, but have never done it nor seen it myself. I am not convinced I can really tell if my seat is at a 2 degree slope. I just like my head raised as it would be on a thick pillow, so I raise the seat slightly from the flat position..

 

[QANTASLM]

Forget QF ETC If you are travelling F class move to Star and travel with Lufthansa as much as you can. They have the best F class. I would suggest looking into F class with LH You can travel SYD - either SFO or LAX with UA then onto FRA or MUC with LH onto a Europe city then From FRA to BKK with TG all this for only $6800 F class. You can purchase additional J class coupons for travel within Europe at $255 each way. For the USA internal you can find fantastic F class fares. Do your maths you will end up better off and Lufthansa has its own F class terminal in Frankfurt. Plus join Lufthansa Miles & More as you will get Triple points for F class travel. I did a trip as above and after 1 trip now have enough points for J class to HNL with AC. Much better program than QF ONE WORLD.

 

[serfty]

... Lufthansa ... They have the best F class. ...

There would be quite a few who frequent this forum who might dispute this. Reports of SQ and CX tend to put the F service of those carriers at the top. ...

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

There would be quite a few who frequent this forum who might dispute this. Reports of SQ and CX tend to put the F service of those carriers at the top. ...

I'm one. While LH ground service is excellent (especially the First Class Terminal and Lounges at FRA but also the assistance with immigration etc at other airports), the seat is far from the best in F. Also the layout on 747 doesn't provide much options for privacy for a single traveller. Food and wine are excellent but service can be mixed.

That said, I do agree with QANTASLM that for travel from Oz/NZ to europe, for the price, LH is very good.

 

[Dave Noble]

There would be quite a few who frequent this forum who might dispute this. Reports of SQ and CX tend to put the F service of those carriers at the top. ...

I would also consider EK at the top on the service levels ime and their curent 1st cabin does look very tempting and I am definately considering trying it out next year.

I havent heard anything particularly great about LH First, excepting that they have the 1st class terminal at FRA .

Dave

 

[NM]

Forget QF ETC If you are travelling F class move to Star and travel with Lufthansa as much as you can. They have the best F class.

What do you like so much about LH First Class? How doe sit compare with CX First Class (the best product I have experienced)?

I would suggest looking into F class with LH You can travel SYD - either SFO or LAX with UA then onto FRA or MUC with LH onto a Europe city then From FRA to BKK with TG all this for only $6800 F class. You can purchase additional J class coupons for travel within Europe at $255 each way. For the USA internal you can find fantastic F class fares. Do your maths you will end up better off and Lufthansa ...

Hmm, when I add in the USA domestic flights I took on my last RTW for DFW-PHX-DFW-MIA stopovers, the F fares soon add up. And then getting to/from KUL as well as 3 visits to MEL all in business class, the price starting to add up. But I agree its a great fare, especially if you need to be on places covered directly by the fare.

... has its own F class terminal in Frankfurt.

Very nice if you need to be in FRA (which I generally do). How does this compare with say CX's F facilities at HKG (which I transited 3 times in my last trip)

Plus join Lufthansa Miles & More as you will get Triple points for F class travel. I did a trip as above and after 1 trip now have enough points for J class to HNL with AC. Much better program than QF ONE WORLD.

I agree the QF program is poor for earn/burn rates. My last One World ATW trip went to AAdvantage and earned me enough for a business class return trip to anywhere in Africa or Asia, or as I actually burned the points on 3 x business class tickets to New Zealand. I think that is a pretty competitive earn/burn rate for a single ATW trip.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

What do you like so much about LH First Class? How doe sit compare with CX First Class (the best product I have experienced)?

In the air I'd rate LH behind CX (but not by that much). On the ground LH comes ahead.

Very nice if you need to be in FRA (which I generally do). How does this compare with say CX's F facilities at HKG (which I transited 3 times in my last trip)

LH is much better. I could dig out my post from a trip report. Fantastic food and drink (see post below). Proper sit down dinner with full service. Or a buffet if you'd prefer. Shower suites. Baths. Sleeping rooms with amenity kit. Big screen tv. Also laptop and play station for use if you want. And the usual toilets, wide magazine & newspaper selection.

Driven out to the a/c just minutes before departure (doors close behind you). Speedy and efficient security check at the entrance. They take your BP and passport to do all the checks and formalities while you enjoy the lounge.

You may recall my trip report of a *A business class round the world from last year when I earned 200k miles, enough for a free business class trip to europe. Admittedly that was with some promos and careful selection of flights.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Trip report on *A Business RTW (this is the one earning 200k miles).

Trip report that includes LH FCT at FRA


FRA first class terminal menu

BUFFET

Antipasti

Calamari con salsa
Veal with truffel sauce
Grilled vegetables
Feta cheese with olive oil
White eggplant puree
Arugula with cherry tomatoes
Shallots with aged balsamic vinegar
Buffalo mozzarella
Parmesan
Manchego
Jamon iberico / pata negra
Grilled green asparagus
Minced beef salad
Stuffed eggplant

Tapas

Fried baby calamari
Fried artichokes
Meatballs in tomato sauce
Fried prawns

Smoked Salmon

Scottish smoked salmon - Loch Fyne
Horseradish cream / toast or cream cheese / bagel

Desserts

Do & Co's Mousse au chocolat
Creme brulee
Tiramisu
Pannacotta
Do & Co's French kiss
Fresh fruit salad
Viennese apple strudel
Selection of sorbets
Austrian style chocolate souffle
Vanilla ice cream with warm chocolate sauce


BUFFET AND SPECIALS

Soups

Consomme with vegetables
Cappucino di rucola with tomatocrostini
Tom ka gai - Thai chicken soup with coconut milk / fresh cilantro and chili

Local Special

Bavarian leberkase - creamy potato salad / brezel / mustard
Oktopus grost'l - caramelized shallots / tomatoes

Steak and Salad

Seared fillet of beef - eggplant salad / crispy rosemary chips

Wok

Stir fried chilli beef - fillet of beef marinated with chilli and Thai basil / sweet soy sauce / steamed rice
Chicken koy soy - slices of chicken breast in chili coconut cream / soy bean sprouts / egg noodles / coriander

Pasta

Handmade tagliatelle - sauteed scallops / creamy lemongrass sauce / rosemary pesto


BAR

Before Dinner Drinks

Bellini coughtail
Veneziano
Kir royale
Cosmopolitan
Martini coughtail
Manhattan

After Dinner Drinks

White russian
Alexander
Godfather

Water

Voslauer still
Voslauer sparkling
Evian still
Perrier sparkling
Apollinaris still
Apollinaris sparkling
San Pellegrino sparkling
Ramlosa sparkling
Blue Keld still

Beer

Draft beer
Beck's
Radeberger
Konig Pilsener

Bottled beer
Foster's
Ottakringer
Budweiser
Carlsberg
Kronebourg 1664
Warsteiner
Jever Pilsener
Franziskaner Hefe
Diebels Altbier
Maisel Diat
Corona
Heineken
Anheuser Busch
Miller Genuine Draft

Non alcoholic beer
Clausthaler

Cider
Strongbow

coughtails

Mojito
Ciapirinha
Daiquiri
Strawberry Margarita
Sex on the Beach
Cuba Libre
Pina Colada
Mai Tai

Red Wines

2001 Spatburgunder
2001 Chianti Classico Riserva
2002 Vino Nobile di Montepulciano DOC
1999 Rioja Rserva
2004 Blaufrankisch Barrique Chevalier
2003 Pinotage Laibach Vignery
2002 Cabernet Sauvignon Brown Brothers
2000 Chateau Fonpiquery

White Wines

2004 Riesling Smaragd Steinertal
2003 Chardonnay Selection
2005 Gelber Muskateller
2005 Riesling Robert Weil
2004 Sancerre
2004 Chablis 1er Cru Domaine William Fevre
2004 Pinot Grigio Collio DOC
2005 Sauvignon Blanc Hawkes Bay Babich Winert

Dessert Wine

2003 Beerenauslese Cuvee

Whisky

Blended scotch
Ballantine's finest
Ballantine's gold seal 12 years
Chivas Regal 12 years
Clan Campbell 12 years
Cutty Sark emerald 12 years
Dewar's
Dimple original
The Famous Grouse finest
The Famous Grouse gold reserve 12 years
Glob Kitty
J & B rare
Johnnie Walker red label
Johnnie Walker black label 12 years
Johnnie Walker gold label 18 years
Johnnie Walker blue label
Vat 68 finest

Bourbon
Four Roses kentucky
Jim Beam kentucky
Jim Beam black label 8 years 43% vol
Maker's Mark 45% vol
Wild Turkey 8 years 50.5% vol
Woodford Reserve distiller's select

Tennessee
Jack Daniel's old no 7 brand
Jack Daniel's gentleman jack
Jack Daniel's single barrel 45% vol

Canadian
Canadian Club barrel blended
Crown Royal fine de luxe
Mc Guiness old canada

Irish
Jameson 12 years
Kilbeggan finest
Paddy
Tullamore Dew

Irish Malt
Bushmills 10 years
Connemara peated
Locke's 8 years
Tyrconnell pure pot still

Single Malt

Highlands
Aberlour 10 years 43% vol
Balvenie founder's reserve 10 years
Balvenie double wood 12 years
Cragganmore 12 years
Criagnure 10 years
Dalwhinne 15 years 43% vol
Ferintosh 10 years
Glenfarclas 10 years
Glenfarclas 21 years 43% vol
Glenfiddich havana reserve 21 years
Glenfiddich solera reserve 15 years
Glenlivet 12 years
Glenlivet 15 years 43% vol
Glenluig 10 years
Glenmorangie 10 years
Glenmorangie 18 years 43% vol
Glenmorangie sherry wood finish 43% vol
Glenmorangie madiera wood finish 43% vol
Glenmorangie port wood finish 43% vol
Highland Park isle of orkney 12 years
Knockando 12 years 43% vol
Macallan 12 years
Macallan fine oak 18 years
Mortlach 15 years
Talisker isle of skye 10 years 45.8% vol

Lowlands
Glenkinchie 10 years 43% vol

Isle of Islay
Ardbeg 10 years 46% vol
Ardbeg uigedail 54.2% vol
Druichan 10 years 43% vol
Lagavulin 16 years 43% vol
Laphroaig 10 years
Laphroaig 15 years 43% vol

Vatted Malt
Glen Grant
Johnnie Walker 15 years

Aperitif and Bitters

Aperol
Averna
Campari
Cynar
Fernet - branca
Martini Bitter
Nonino Amaro
Ouzo no 12
Pernod
Ramazzotti
Ricard

Calvados

Daron XO 18 years
Papidoux 15 years

Cognac

Camus grand VSOP
Hennessy fine de cognac
Hennessy XO
Martell cognac cordon bleu
Otard XO gold
Otard VSOP

Brandy

Carlos I
Conde De Osborne
Osborne Veterano

Grappa

Antinori
Altesino
Nonino grappa di moscato
Nonino vuisinar

Schnaps

Apple
Raspberry
Elderflower
Apricot
Yellow Plum
Quince
Rowanberry
Pear
Plum

Rum

Bacardi carta blanca
Bacardi carta d'oro
Bacardi carta negra
Bacardi 8 anos
Bacardi lemon
Havana Club anejo 3 anos
Havana Club anejo 7 anos
Havana Club anejo reserva
Myers's original dark
Pitu cachaca
Pyrat XO planters gold
Zacapa centenario 23 years

Vodka

Absolut
Absolut citron
Absolut mandarin
Finlandia
Grey Goose
Stolichnaya

Gin

Beefeater
Bombay Sapphire
Gordon's
Tanqueray

Tequila

Jose Cuervo classico
Jose Cuervo especial gold

Liqueur

Amaretto
Baileys
Batida de coco
Benedictine
Cointreau
Creme de cacao
Creme de cassis
Drambuie
Kahlua
Malibu
Pepino peach
Sambuca
Southern Comfort
Tia Maria

Sherry

Sandeman don fino
Sandeman dry seco
Sandeman medium dry
Sandeman rich golden

Vermouth

Martini extra dry
Martini bianco
Martini d'oro
Martini rosso
Noilly Prat extra dry

Prosecco and Champagner

Prosecco Brusole
Champagner Taittinger
Champagner Taittinger Rose
Ruinart

Port Wine

Delaforce

Fruit Juices

Pineapple
Apple
Pear
Strawberry
Blackcurrant
Cherry
Mango-passionfruit
Tropical fruit
Peach
Tomato

Soft Drinks

Coca Cola
Coca Cola light
Fanta
Sprite
Bitter lemon
Tonic water
Ginger ale
Kombucha
Red Bull
Red Bull sugar free

Tea

Assam Bukhial second flush
Ceylon orange pekoe
China Yunnan golden downy pekoe
Darjeeling Lingia first flush
Earl Grey imperior
English breakfast
Uva Blairlomond highgrown
Formose oolong II
China Lung Ching green tea
China Wujuan jasmine
Fruchtemischung / tropical fruit
Camomile
Peppermint
Rotbusch Sahne Karamell