Qantas Flight Attendant Wore Palestinian Flag Pin on Their Uniform

[drron]

And I fully respect your view @CaptainCurtis .

 

[Pushka]

And I am saddened that this rush to the media and complaint possibly would not have occurred if the flag badge being worn was Israeli. Not entering into a political debate but this reflects the tenor of many media outlets.

Well I guess we will never know that. But right now I wouldn't want to see either flag badge unless the wearer had the company 'right' to wear whichever one.

 

[justinbrett]

For what it's worth, the QF uniform doesn't include the Australian Flag and crew are not permitted to wear it on their uniform.

 

[Pushka]

For what it's worth, the QF uniform doesn't include the Australian Flag and crew are not permitted to wear it on their uniform.

Why is that?

 

[justinbrett]

Why is that?

As a legacy carrier QF uniform policy closely resembles Air Force uniform policy and there are strict rules about what you can pin on your uniform and where.

I'm not sure if they make an exception for Australia Day or other special occasions, but from the policy confirmed in the media it's not permitted.

I believe the EK policy specifies a specific shade of lipstick that must be worn by women. These things are strict (though I imagine much looser on LCCs like JQ & Bonza).

 

[moa999]

You either have a uniform policy or you don't and stuff quickly turns to s...

We've seen it with sporting codes whether it's one person trying to display something, or teams being forced into wearing something they don't believe in.

 

[TheInsider]

You either have a uniform policy or you don't and stuff quickly turns to s...

We've seen it with sporting codes whether it's one person trying to display something, or teams being forced into wearing something they don't believe in.

 

[milehighclub]

Flags that identify the crew member is a language speaker are on the name badge itself. It isn't an additional pin.

I’m not sure which flag is used for Arabic (guessing UAE given EK relationship )

It is the flag of Saudi Arabia

 

[jastel]

Maybe the Airlines should start serving a spoonful of cement in the food....

Its no different than painting the plane with YES or pride stripes, or if the guy next to you is wearing a Collingwood shirt or a Holden hat. You might not agree with it but you are not in any Danger from it.

 

[RooFlyer]

Its no different than painting the plane with YES or pride stripes, or if the guy next to you is wearing a Collingwood shirt or a Holden hat. You might not agree with it but you are not in any Danger from it.

I think it is. The pin in question is being used by Palestinian supporters in Australia some of whom have behaved very aggressively towards Jews in Australia. That's hardly Collingwood and Holden stuff, is it.

If the sports people and flight attendants and anyone else wants to express an opinion on the current war, or anything else, let them do so in their own time. Not when they are paid by either the national sports team, or shareholders, or if in close contact with the public in their employment who may take genuine offence at the symbol being displayed. If the company policy takes one side in a political or social debate, I think that's lamentable, but at least people know about it before they engage with them and can avoid doing so if they wish. They can't when a FA leans over them with a symbol used in rallies in Australia and elsewhere.

Do it in their own time - is that too difficult or unreasonable?

 

[Daver6]

Maybe the Airlines should start serving a spoonful of cement in the food....

Its no different than painting the plane with YES or pride stripes, or if the guy next to you is wearing a Collingwood shirt or a Holden hat. You might not agree with it but you are not in any Danger from it.

It's a massive difference. One is a corporate decision by a company while the other is individual decision by staff. Staff need to abide by company rules. Don't like it? Get a job elsewhere.

What if a hostie wants to wear a swastika pin? That still ok with you?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It's a massive difference. One is a corporate decision by a company while the other is individual decision by staff. Staff need to abide by company rules. Don't like it? Get a job elsewhere.

What if a hostie wants to wear a swastika pin? That still ok with you?

Absolutely not! The swastika is illegal. National flags (small ‘n’) are not.

The cabin crew weren’t wearing hamas flags.

The use of the palestinian flag has been hijacked. Rather than being able to simply show empathy with the civilian population - in the same way the ukrainian flag does - it has been linked to hamas, violent demonstrations and anti-semitism. The latter three are all abhorrent and rightfully banned.

Ill-advised? Maybe, given we now know the impact those actions could have.

But the cabin crew were unlikely to be intending anything other than empathy with an unfolding humanitarian crisis, quite separate of any political messaging.

 

[jase05]

It's a massive difference. One is a corporate decision by a company while the other is individual decision by staff. Staff need to abide by company rules. Don't like it? Get a job elsewhere.

What if a hostie wants to wear a swastika pin? That still ok with you?

Agree 100%
I know if anyone did this at my job they would be hauled in front of HR for a please explain.

 

[oz_mark]

Agree 100%
I know if anyone did this at my job they would be hauled in front of HR for a please explain.

A discussion with HR is one thing, but I think the demands for a sacking is a bit over the top.

 

[Daver6]

Absolutely not! The swastika is illegal. National flags (small ‘n’) are not.

Fair point. However, less than a year ago it would have been legal.

The cabin crew weren’t wearing hamas flags.

The use of the palestinian flag has been hijacked. Rather than being able to simply show empathy with the civilian population - in the same way the ukrainian flag does - it has been linked to hamas, violent demonstrations and anti-semitism. The latter three are all abhorrent and rightfully banned.

That's part of the problem and exactly why some people will feel incredibly uncomfortable seeing it worn by a crew member. When you have pro-Palestinian folks in their thousands waving the flag around and chanting "gas the Jews kill the Jews" the association is made. I think it's easy to understand why people would then feel uncomfortable seeing the flag.

But the cabin crew were unlikely to be intending anything other than empathy with an unfolding humanitarian crisis, quite separate of any political messaging.

I'd agree with you that what their intent was. However, intent is not sufficient. One needs to think of the bigger picture and be mindful of all onboard. Precisely why QF (and pretty much every company) will have a policy of not bringing politics into the workplace.

 

[Pushka]

But the cabin crew were unlikely to be intending anything other than empathy with an unfolding humanitarian crisis, quite separate of any political messaging.

Intent no longer defines acceptability. It's how others feel about that particular action.

 

[muppet]

Intent no longer defines acceptability. It's how others feel about that particular action.

I can’t tell if you’re serious or tongue in cheek. But if what’s acceptable is defined by how others “feel” … the world is going to get pretty darn ridiculous because people are offended by anything.

You are free to feel whatever you like, but your feelings do not dictate the what’s right and wrong.

Looking at the back and forth in this thread and discussion in the media etc, I’m so pleased the hateful argument and conflict is able to be replicated in Australia and not left in the middle east.

 

[jb747]

I would not have stopped an FA from wearing this flag. I'm sure many of them have ties there. Heck Alan had the aircraft covered in symbols he believed in.

 

[nancypants]

Agree. When I read the news article, the first thought that I popped to my mind is - the concerned pax could have spoken to the CSM on the flight and asked if there is a specific reason as to why a certain FA was wearing a certain nation's flag on their lapel OR ask the FA itself, without being agro or judgy, ask with a genuine interest to see if there is any reasoning/motive behind their gesture etc ...

A bit OT - I get the feeling that some people are a bit touchy these days? Granted different things affect different persons differently ... I mean, there could be something so naive/funny/casual might offend me, but it helps to talk about these things with the person(s) involved or their one-ups, if the person(s) are unapproachable ... I could be wrong and happy to be corrected, but reporting everything to media and making a *news* of it isn't really being neighbourly (?, is the right word, can't find a word to express what I'm trying to say)

Does the 717 fleet even have CSMs?

 

[Mr H]

I would not have stopped an FA from wearing this flag. I'm sure many of them have ties there. Heck Alan had the aircraft covered in symbols he believed in.

I think it is sensible for Qantas to prohibit their employees from displaying their personal allegiances. In any conflict situation there are two sides - even when many of us think there is clearly one side that is right and another that is wrong (e.g. Russia vs Ukraine). If you allow people from one side to display their personal allegiance then you have to allow the other side to do the same. You might even have staff coming under pressure from their communities to display their allegiance. This is likely to create division and annoy customers in a way that the business cannot control.

Of course, if a company wants to take sides then it is free to do so. They take the decision about which side to take and what he risks of doing so might be. Staff should not be allowed to opt out of such corporate displays because if they are, the displays (or lack of displays) become personal, not corporate. If an employee objects to working for an organisation that has taken a particular political or social stand then they are free to look for an employer that better aligns with their personal beliefs.

Most of us get it. We accept pay from our employers in exchange for representing them. We see employees of various organisations in our daily lives and we do not confuse their employers' values with the values of the people who wear their uniforms. Blurring the clear line between corporate and personal would be a loss to both parties.