Qantas Flight Attendant Wore Palestinian Flag Pin on Their Uniform

[Pushka]

I can’t tell if you’re serious or tongue in cheek. But if what’s acceptable is defined by how others “feel” … the world is going to get pretty darn ridiculous because people are offended by anything.

You are free to feel whatever you like, but your feelings do not dictate the what’s right and wrong.

Looking at the back and forth in this thread and discussion in the media etc, I’m so pleased the hateful argument and conflict is able to be replicated in Australia and not left in the middle east.

I'm just the messenger here. It's what I perceive to be happening.

 

[Rangalad]

This would not have happened if Biruta Hammill was still around.

 

[Rangalad]

I would not have stopped an FA from wearing this flag. I'm sure many of them have ties there. Heck Alan had the aircraft covered in symbols he believed in.

I respectfully disagree, however I accept your decision as PIC.

 

[Danger]

I've watched this thread, and this story more broadly, unfold for the last day or so. I've kept quiet in relation to it and absorbed a range of dialogues, across a number of channels. And to be clear from the outset, I am Jewish. In my mind, the question here isn't exclusively about whether the FA harassed the passenger, but concurrently about whether the passenger felt intimidated. Now I absolutely acknowledge that "Harry Grafa" is not Jewish and appears to have been looking for some attention. He clearly wasn't intimidated by the flag. I do not agree with his approach to this issue.

But with that said, had I been a passenger with this FA, as a Jew, I absolutely would have felt intimidated. I have had convoys driving through my suburb, which is a hotspot for people of my faith, with Palestinian flags chanting "from the river to the sea" with no intention other than to provoke and instil fear. I have seen anti-Israel and anti-Jewish posters plastered over 'free the hostages' posters, again in my area, which has one of Sydney's largest Jewish populations. I have seen the steps of the Sydney Opera House flooded with these same flags while chants of "gas the Jews" ring out. So when you view the FA's actions through this lens, it shouldn't be difficult to see why a Jewish person may have felt intimidated in these circumstances, being trapped in a metal tube travelling through the air, with minimal (no) safeguards and protections.

One thing that I've really come to grapple with over the last few months is that multiple things can be true at the same time - it may be true that the FA wasn't harassing anyone and didn't have the slightest intention to do so, but it may also be true that someone could nonetheless feel intimidated by the flag in a confined, inescapable environment.

Qantas has made it clear that they do not wish to get involved in the politics behind the issue, understandably so. It is then for them to ensure that their employees adhere to the policies they put in place. I have absolutely no issue with whatever views the FA in question may have, but I don't believe an airplane is an appropriate or safe place to push these views.

The post-October 6 demonstrations in Australia that were anti-Jew (as opposed to those that were pro-Palestine) were an international embarrassment and a sad indictment on our country. I cannot imagine what it would have been like to witness as a Jewish person in Australia.

I do feel, though, that there's a difference between wearing the flag pin of a country and, say, a pin that says "From the river to the sea". Wearing the flag of Palestine doesn't make you pro Hamas. I support Palestine; I do not support Hamas.

I think MEL_Traveller summarised it well:

...

The cabin crew weren’t wearing hamas flags.

The use of the palestinian flag has been hijacked. Rather than being able to simply show empathy with the civilian population - in the same way the ukrainian flag does - it has been linked to hamas, violent demonstrations and anti-semitism. The latter three are all abhorrent and rightfully banned.

Ill-advised? Maybe, given we now know the impact those actions could have.

But the cabin crew were unlikely to be intending anything other than empathy with an unfolding humanitarian crisis, quite separate of any political messaging.

I wonder how a Palestinian in Australia would feel if a flight attendant wore an Israeli flag. Or a Ukrainian passenger faced with a crew member sporting the Russian flag.

...

That's part of the problem and exactly why some people will feel incredibly uncomfortable seeing it worn by a crew member. When you have pro-Palestinian folks in their thousands waving the flag around and chanting "gas the Jews kill the Jews" the association is made. I think it's easy to understand why people would then feel uncomfortable seeing the flag.

...

I think that's all the more reason society should push back. It's the flag of a country, not of a terrorist organisation.

At the end of the day, the issue if fundamentally that a flight attendant did not conform to the uniform guidelines.

 

[justinbrett]

It's the flag of a country

I think that's very much the whole point of the conflict. There is no country.

 

[Danger]

I think that's very much the whole point of the conflict. There is no country.

Perhaps a poor choice of word on my part. Flag of a "state" would be more appropriate.

 

[justinbrett]

Perhaps a poor choice of word on my part. Flag of a "state" would be more appropriate.

It's not even that. It represents two politically separate entities that are not politically linked. One of which is ruled by the terrorist organisation in question. The other could be described as a state, but is not currently involved in the conflict.

It's a can of worms that shouldn't be opened at 38,000 FT.

 

[tgh]

Last I’ll say here, so troll me if you want. ciao.

It would be interesting to chew the fat over a bottle of red .
I suspect we differ in a few areas but that does (should) not make us enemies

 

[Quickstatus]

But what does this have to do with taking pictures/video of Qantas /airline employees without their consent?. Especially identifying photos?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Links to the facebook quote(s) aren’t provided, and I don’t know whether the posts are genuine (they could be forged).

this potentially adds a different perspective, if true: https://www.skynews.com.au/australi...t/news-story/d51f0f9784d07e44ba6191546459c45f

 

[DejaBrew]

Links to the facebook quote(s) aren’t provided, and I don’t know whether the posts are genuine (they could be forged).

this potentially adds a different perspective, if true: https://www.skynews.com.au/australi...t/news-story/d51f0f9784d07e44ba6191546459c45f

Sky News playing the "victim" card (re: themselves) is a bit rich...

 

[drron]

It's not even that. It represents two politically separate entities that are not politically linked. One of which is ruled by the terrorist organisation in question. The other could be described as a state, but is not currently involved in the conflict.

It's a can of worms that shouldn't be opened at 38,000 FT.

Though it is recognised by many countries as a STATE.
The State of Palestine has been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012. As of 2 June 2023, 139 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine. In contrast Israel is recognized by 165.

International recognition of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[justinbrett]

Though it is recognised by many countries as a STATE.
The State of Palestine has been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012. As of 2 June 2023, 139 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine. In contrast Israel is recognized by 165.

International recognition of the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And that state has since split in two, with Gaza being run by Hamas.

If the elected government had control of Gaza, this conflict would be over.

 

[Mr H]

And that state has since split in two

Which is unsurprising given that travel between the two parts has been made all but impossible.

 

[justinbrett]

Which is unsurprising given that travel between the two parts has been made all but impossible.

They went to war with each other. It's bit more than geography!

 

[Mr H]

They went to war with each other. It's bit more than geography!

I'm confused, There's a war between Gaza and West Bank?

 

[justinbrett]

I'm confused, There's a war between Gaza and West Bank?

There was a war between Hamas and Fatah, the current leaders of the respective jurisdictions and why it is now separate.

 

[MARTINE]

Well I guess we will never know that. But right now I wouldn't want to see either flag badge unless the wearer had the company 'right' to wear whichever one.

Our flags | Yarra City Council

We fly a range of flags at our town halls in Collingwood, Fitzroy and Richmond - as well as on our civic flagpoles.

www.yarracity.vic.gov.au

It is an interesting discussion and I like to read respectful points of view either way. Hence I enjoy AFF community.

For example, Yarra council (inner city Melbourne) flag policy….highlights that the interpretations/reactions to flag display are wide, varied, can be seen as intimidating and may be seen as divisive.
All reflected in views above (again sensitively handled)
I am not attempting to be in any way political (you can read article if interested ) …. national flag will not be flown on certain days like 26/1.

Mods feel free to remove if seen to be outside regs.

 

[offshore171]

I'm confused, There's a war between Gaza and West Bank?

Not exactly, but they are led by opposing sects. The power dynamic is as follows:

When Hamas came to power in Gaza, one of their first acts was to murder most of the leadership of the (more moderate) Fatah opposition. There has not been an election in Gaza in the ~18 years since.

Fatah remains in power in the West Bank.

 

[am0985]

If Qantas' policy is to not allow national flags, it's fair that's enforced across the board. As long as any action taken is proportionate (and it appears to be here) then that's reasonable. Having said that, a lot of companies have rules that are enforced in patchy ways. The same standard should be enforced for any national flag.

However it's also my view that this particular rule is there to protect the corporate reputation of the airline more than passengers. Of course it's Qantas' prerogative to do this, but I think comparing the Palestine flag to a Swastika or for that matter a Hamas flag is something that should be firmly pushed back against. Banning those hate symbols would be protecting passengers too.

The level of trauma felt in Jewish communities both from both the 7/10 attack and the documented rise in open antisemitism is entirely understandable. There have been incidents (eg the London Tube announcer shouting "river to the sea" etc) that have rightly been condemned as being intimidating to Jews on board. However, I find it difficult to sympathise with the idea of a flag badge being intimidating in the same way.

Tens of thousands of civilians have died in Gaza. There has been rhetoric from mainstream Israeli politicians advocating ethnic cleansing and war crimes. If a FA wore an Israeli pin badge and a passenger of Palestinian origin complained to Qantas that this was intimidating, would those complaining about the Palestine pin badge support this complaint too? Or would they hold it up as evidence of antisemitism? That would be the big test for me.