Qantas flight cancellation, costs incurred

[elanshin]

Ok for some reason I thought it was return to same location as usually return to different costs an extra arm. I'm surprised that in this situation its an increase in costs.

 

[justinbrett]

Thanks for reading my post Justin. I think we disagree.

- We didn't elect to change the booking. QF changed the booking when they cancelled the flight. They probably did it for commercial reasons. They're doing it quite a lot .. .. the number of SYD / MEL flights that get cancelled each week is significant.

- We are indeed choosing to not drive down early .. .. but that's because to get to BRI for at even a 7.00am flight we'd want to arrive at (say) 6.00am given we are travelling with kids. By the time we do the drive from Noosa (1 hr 40 with no buffer?) we're leaving at 4.20am and getting up at 3.30am or 3.45am. Doing that with kids isn't our idea of a holiday.

- This isn't happening because (using your phrase) we are electing not to drive down early. It's happening because Qantas cancelled the flight.

You are right that we could indeed cancel the flights. However, that puts us in a worse position, we'd have to fly with another airline and pay even higher prices for Easter-week flights. So I think the option you put forward does not work.

All of this is happening because Qantas has *still* got an enormous cancellation rate. They cancel flights (sometimes for commercial reasons) and they don't suffer the costs. The passengers, like us in this case, suffers the cost.

Your issue is with the rental car company though, not Qantas (any reason for not naming them?). Just doing a fresh search on the QF portal for your dates you can rent a car for less than $500. On Expedia they even have sub-$300 options. Plus you're saving fuel for the return to BNE.

Qantas has nothing to do with your rental car booking. It is still providing flights on the same day from BNE to CHC, or because you requested, MCY to CHC.

I think you might be a little too emotionally invested in this, but looking at it objectively I think you're being unreasonable. QF are entitled to make changes to their schedule, especially two months out, and from what I've read they've gone above and beyond to accommodate you.

Enormous cancellation rate? QF was 2.8% in Jan. 4% is the industry benchmark.

 

[vaccav]

Sorry, but no airline will pay out money for incidentals like Car Hire for a change that is months in advance. Also, your assumption of Qantas changing their flights to 'make more money' is based on your opinion only, without any facts.

Hi Insider. I think we might have a difference of view here. I think its fairly established that Qantas sometimes cancel bookings for commercial reasons. The number of SYD / MEL / BRI flights cancelled each week is significant. They're not cancelling all those flights for technical, maintenance, or 'surprise' issues that came up that day.

I don't think you are really asserting that Qantas *is not* changing any flights for commercial reasons, are you ? They "fold" flights on the SYD / MEL / BRI route all the time. There's less unhappy people with those changes because many people are travelling for work and its not really that bad if its a 30 min or 60 min delay. If our flight to CHC had moved by that much (jeez, even 2 hours) we'd be fine.

Maybe your view is that "we don't know if the BRI / CHC trip was cancelled for commercial reasons" However, I hardly think its being cancelled due to a maintenance or breakdown issue on the day.

The reality here is: they sold seats for a flight .. .. .. then cancelled it months later .. .. and did so knowing that the customers will suffer the costs and the inconvenience. It's not exactly good business practice, really.

They have been taken to court by the ACCC for selling seats on flights that don't exist, and they lost on that front. It doesn't seem all that far-fetched that they'd cancel BRI to CHC .. .. do it for commercial reasons .. .. offer flights to customers that arrive the next day and say .. .. the customers will suck it up.

We don't treat customers like that in my business and I think its pretty reasonable to expect Qantas not to do it either.

 

[vaccav]

What is the daily rate you were originally paying and what class of car do you want?

FYI the correct IATA code for Brisbane Airport is BNE, as others having been using. BRI is the code for Bari International Airport in Italy.

Hi Kpro .. .. thanks for reading my posts and looking at this. I shall call it BNE from here .. .. shoulda done more of my research instead of looking like Johnny Amateur .. ..

The car is a Toyota Kluger or similar and originally cost about $738 and now costs about $1093. That's with 1 extra driver and no extra insurance with pick up on Thurs night and drop off on Tues morning.

(I can already hear the howls of laughter from others about paying $1093 for a car for 4.5 days. I know, I know .. .. that's my point .. we are being screwed. It's because it's Easter and we booked it months ago and it was .. .. *only* $738).

 

[vaccav]

Your issue is with the rental car company though, not Qantas (any reason for not naming them?). Just doing a fresh search on the QF portal for your dates you can rent a car for less than $500. On Expedia they even have sub-$300 options. Plus you're saving fuel for the return to BNE.

Qantas has nothing to do with your rental car booking. It is still providing flights on the same day from BNE to CHC, or because you requested, MCY to CHC.

I think you might be a little too emotionally invested in this, but looking at it objectively I think you're being unreasonable. QF are entitled to make changes to their schedule, especially two months out, and from what I've read they've gone above and beyond to accommodate you.

Enormous cancellation rate? QF was 2.8% in Jan. 4% is the industry benchmark.

Hi Justin, Thank you for engaging with my posts. I think we have a difference of view.

In terms of cancellation rate, 2.8% represents more than 60,000 passengers per month or 720,000 per year. I think that's a lot of people being stuffed around. I think those that get cancelled by a breakdown or a maintenance issue are somewhat understandable.

Oh .. and those figures are just domestically. It's more if you add international.

I disagree with your position that "Qantas are entitled to change their schedule 2 months out". I don't think its fair that they sell tickets for flights and then make so many changes and expect customers to pay. I think its particularly bad if they do it knowingly.

And - let's be honest - I think they know that they are doing it and stuffing customers around. They know they're gunna schedule flights and cancel them.

 

[justinbrett]

Hi Justin, Thank you for engaging with my posts. I think we have a difference of view.

In terms of cancellation rate, 2.8% represents more than 60,000 passengers per month or 720,000 per year. I think that's a lot of people being stuffed around. I think those that get cancelled by a breakdown or a maintenance issue are somewhat understandable.

Oh .. and those figures are just domestically. It's more if you add international.

I disagree with your position that "Qantas are entitled to change their schedule 2 months out". I don't think its fair that they sell tickets for flights and then make so many changes and expect customers to pay. I think its particularly bad if they do it knowingly.

And - let's be honest - I think they know that they are doing it and stuffing customers around. They know they're gunna schedule flights and cancel them.

For a start the cancellation rates fluctuate and all the airlines have a turn at being the worst. In Dec 23 VA got to 7.7%. Right now none of them are particularly bad.

I think you might want to read up a bit more on the industry before you blast your opinions - as the majority of cancellations are due to ATC shortages. This is well known and has been widely reported and discussed on this forum. The reason that they mostly occur on SYD-BNE/MEL is those routes have the highest frequencies and thus easiest to accommodate pax on different flights.

In any case all of this is moot as your flight doesn't even classify as a cancellation, as it is too far out. It is a schedule change. That gives you a lot of flexibility with rebooking as you have seen. QF offered you BNE-CHC (apparently too late), BNE-SYD-CHC (apparently too early), MCY-SYD-CHC (perfect but now you have to change a bad rental car booking).

I think perhaps put some of the beef you have with QF on your rental car company as they are the ones who are screwing you.

 

[vaccav]

For a start the cancellation rates fluctuate and all the airlines have a turn at being the worst. In Dec 23 VA got to 7.7%. Right now none of them are particularly bad.

I think you might want to read up a bit more on the industry before you blast your opinions - as the majority of cancellations are due to ATC shortages. This is well known and has been widely reported and discussed on this forum. The reason that they mostly occur on SYD-BNE/MEL is those routes have the highest frequencies and thus easiest to accommodate pax on different flights.

In any case all of this is moot as your flight doesn't even classify as a cancellation, as it is too far out. It is a schedule change. That gives you a lot of flexibility with rebooking as you have seen. QF offered you BNE-CHC (apparently too late), BNE-SYD-CHC (apparently too early), MCY-SYD-CHC (perfect but now you have to change a bad rental car booking).

I think perhaps put some of the beef you have with QF on your rental car company as they are the ones who are screwing you.

Thanks Justin. I wasn't aware of the ATC cancellations so maybe I've got bits of my grumble wrong. 7.7% cancellation by virgin is awful. I think it points to them scheduling too many flights if they have to cancel so many.

I don't think I have any complaint with the rental company. For those dates, in that location, with that class of car, they are (unbelievably) the cheapest. I looked around for lots of alternatives and can't get it cheaper unless I downgrade the car or take it at a different time which doesn't really work. I think that's the market: the prices go up closer to the date.

I think you are probably right that I am a bit over-invested in this. I just think its poor that they schedule flights and then cancel them so often. My beef is: don't cancel so many flights and expect your customers to pick up the pieces. I mighta said that one tooooo many times now.

My original post was to see if anyone had experience with CTTT or ACCC complaints and I think the thread has moved a bit from that. I'll probably not do a CTTT claim (based on the advice from one poster) but I'll do an ACCC complaint. They can add it to their pile.

It's pretty clear that your view is that QF is not in the wrong .. .. .. ie it's ok for them to change the schedule after selling the tickets .. .. and .. .. passengers should suck up the inconvenience and cost of landing after midnight or getting up at 3.30am. There is real pain-factor associated with all that, I'm not making it up.

It's probably time for me to pull up stumps on this and drop the thread. If you (a rational by-stander) think i'm blasting my opinions and overinvested and emotional .. .. .. then its time for me to take the feedback and stop.

I thought i was standing up for myself on a fairly reasonable position (ie don't screw your customers, esp your P1's) .. .. but if rational independants like you think I've gone too far .. .. then I probably have.

From here, I shall draw a line under this thread and post no more on it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks Justin. I wasn't aware of the ATC cancellations so maybe I've got bits of my grumble wrong. 7.7% cancellation by virgin is awful. I think it points to them scheduling too many flights if they have to cancel so many.

I don't think I have any complaint with the rental company. For those dates, in that location, with that class of car, they are (unbelievably) the cheapest. I looked around for lots of alternatives and can't get it cheaper unless I downgrade the car or take it at a different time which doesn't really work. I think that's the market: the prices go up closer to the date.

I think you are probably right that I am a bit over-invested in this. I just think its poor that they schedule flights and then cancel them so often. My beef is: don't cancel so many flights and expect your customers to pick up the pieces. I mighta said that one tooooo many times now.

My original post was to see if anyone had experience with CTTT or ACCC complaints and I think the thread has moved a bit from that. I'll probably not do a CTTT claim (based on the advice from one poster) but I'll do an ACCC complaint. They can add it to their pile.

It's pretty clear that your view is that QF is not in the wrong .. .. .. ie it's ok for them to change the schedule after selling the tickets .. .. and .. .. passengers should suck up the inconvenience and cost of landing after midnight or getting up at 3.30am. There is real pain-factor associated with all that, I'm not making it up.

It's probably time for me to pull up stumps on this and drop the thread. If you (a rational by-stander) think i'm blasting my opinions and overinvested and emotional .. .. .. then its time for me to take the feedback and stop.

I thought i was standing up for myself on a fairly reasonable position (ie don't screw your customers, esp your P1's) .. .. but if rational independants like you think I've gone too far .. .. then I probably have.

From here, I shall draw a line under this thread and post no more on it.

Correction on the CTTT. By all means try, I was only recounting what I remember from another thread that it *may* not have jurisdiction. You need to get your own legal advice on that issue.

It is worth following up your issue wh Qantas, escalating it if need be.

 

[Himeno]

Ok for some reason I thought it was return to same location as usually return to different costs an extra arm. I'm surprised that in this situation its an increase in costs.

Is it possible that the car company expected to have an "extra" car in BNE following this booking which they then put in their system as available for hire on the expected return date. Seeking to change that would then result in the company needing to get another car from somewhere else.

 

[kpro]

Ok for some reason I thought it was return to same location as usually return to different costs an extra arm. I'm surprised that in this situation its an increase in costs.

I think the car rental company is re-pricing the booking using current rates when the OP goes to change it, and the rate is now higher then it was when booked even without the one-way fee.

I see both Avis and Hertz in MCY have the 'Kluger or similar' class available for that period, but both are currently pricing at $1k. MCY returning to BNE is currently $1,250 through Hertz.