Qantas Frequent Flyer changes coming in early 2024

If you get to 14k, get LTG and then go elsewhere well that's QF's loss, but you'll still probably come back from time to time at the very least to make use of that status so they probably see a little bit of revenue even there (unless one goes and only flies OW and uses the status there).
Using my newly-minted LTG status on other OneWorld carriers is exactly what I'm planning on doing, unless Qantas happens to be the cheaper option at the time (which, ironically, turned out to be the case for my next trip to the UK, given the current Qantas Red Tail sale).

Qantas for domestic travel is still appealing if you have lounge access via LTG (even if it's only the normal lounge), but I've been eyeing the HSBC Star Alliance credit card which (as I understand it) will grant you - with no prior travel required - access to Virgin Australia lounges on a reciprocal basis if you nominate Air Canada, Singapore Airlines or United Airlines as the Star Alliance status program linked to your card. You can thus get Star Alliance (including reciprocal Virgin) Gold status by spending only $4,000 on eligible purchases in the first 90 days (relatively easy to achieve), and then $60,00 per membership year thereafter (more challenging, but not impossible).

This combination of Qantas Lifetime Gold and Star Alliance credit card Gold gives you the flexibility to choose any OneWorld or Star Alliance airline for international travel, and either Qantas or Virgin for domestic travel, with similar benefits across all airlines.
 
Well it was realistic when QF81 was still runnin
I did that many times !
Are you talking about F lounge access on a domestic sector of an international flight (iirc that flew SYD-ADL-SIN?) - much like can be done with QF5/6/9/10 currently (and the odd JQ tag)

That's a very different situation to having "domestic F lounges"
 
Using my newly-minted LTG status on other OneWorld carriers is exactly what I'm planning on doing, unless Qantas happens to be the cheaper option at the time (which, ironically, turned out to be the case for my next trip to the UK, given the current Qantas Red Tail sale).

Qantas for domestic travel is still appealing if you have lounge access via LTG (even if it's only the normal lounge), but I've been eyeing the HSBC Star Alliance credit card which (as I understand it) will grant you - with no prior travel required - access to Virgin Australia lounges on a reciprocal basis if you nominate Air Canada, Singapore Airlines or United Airlines as the Star Alliance status program linked to your card. You can thus get Star Alliance (including reciprocal Virgin) Gold status by spending only $4,000 on eligible purchases in the first 90 days (relatively easy to achieve), and then $60,00 per membership year thereafter (more challenging, but not impossible).

This combination of Qantas Lifetime Gold and Star Alliance credit card Gold gives you the flexibility to choose any OneWorld or Star Alliance airline for international travel, and either Qantas or Virgin for domestic travel, with similar benefits across all airlines.

You don't get access to VA Lounges on Air Canada Aeroplan
 
Not necessarily what I want personally but I think this will work for the majority of QFF members.

Dump classic rewards and improve the points plus pay conversion rate to 1c per point. Simple. Unlimited seat availability at reasonable rates.

The aspirational aspect of using points to fly in premium cabins will remain alive through points upgrades which should clear more often once classic rewards are gone.
A fairer points plus pay rate, possibly discounted for status members (especially PC/+), would make sense for flights on QF. But I'd think 1c for economy, increasing to 2.5c for first, with no surcharges. While it would make many redemptions marginally worse off, it could make some cheaper than present.

The other is for Qantas (all airlines too, really) to comply with their ACL obligations and issue immediate refunds for cancelled flights and/or rebook to ANY available scheduled mode of transport/on-demand transport. No more flight credits nonsense, no more defrauding Australians.
And refund instantly and automatically, without requiring a phone call.

More last minute reward seats and (similar to Etihad, I think) aggressively pursue customers to use points for upgrades.
I do think Qantas are pretty aggressive with both CR and bid for upgrade requests. As others have observed, I rarely see an empty premium cabin these days
 
A fairer points plus pay rate, possibly discounted for status members (especially PC/+), would make sense for flights on QF. But I'd think 1c for economy, increasing to 2.5c for first, with no surcharges. While it would make many redemptions marginally worse off, it could make some cheaper than present.
tbh this is just dynamic pricing.

Personally I feel Economy classic rewards availability is already very good on most routes and can deliver OK value (1.5~3c per point), so it doesn't really need to be touched.

I do think Qantas are pretty aggressive with both CR and bid for upgrade requests. As others have observed, I rarely see an empty premium cabin these days
Yeah, I agree here. People are able to spend their points to get last minute premium seats for a good (points) price. It's just that it's done through upgrades.

Here's a thought actually - what if we just had guaranteed upgrades for members whose upgrades would otherwise clear immediately anyway?

For instance, if a WP is booking an international flight less than 72 hours out and all WP upgrades have already been processed and there's still seats remaining (such that if a WP requested an upgrade now, it would clear), the booking system should allow a WP to buy a "guaranteed upgrade" cash ticket and indicate it as such when searching for flights. Same for WP1 at <7 days and everyone else at <24 hours.

I suppose it won't be the most widely used system, but it would at least add a bit more certainty for people wanting to spend their points last minute.
 
Qantas CEO Vanessa Hudson flagged "permanent improvements" to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program, to be announced early next year, at today's AGM.

Details here:


What Frequent Flyer changes would you like Qantas to announce in early 2024?
Be Afraid! This is more PR-driven weasel words from our once beloved airline. The New Year is likely to see our QF Points devalued and some meaningless “improvements“ to the FF Program (earn and use points for wine, tech products, hotel bookings etc.). The self-serving outcome Qantas is focussed on is to reduce the contingent liability impact on its Balance Sheet that arises from the FF Program. That’s how you drive executive bonus payments not how you win back trust with your loyal customers. Time to use them or lose them?
 
There's several posts here suggesting better treatment for LTG customers. It's eye opening, even depressing, to look at it from Qantas's perspective. To them, many of the "unloved" LTGs probably look like the archetype perfect customer...

You've committed many, many of your best years of flying with them, enough to accrue LTG. They've extracted additional margin, time and time again, year in, year out, as you've shunned BFOD to stay loyal to Qantas, based on a marketed proposition of future rewards flights. But you've rarely (never, perhaps?) been able to book them. And if you do, it'll only be on their terms. Unwanted dates, strange routings - they're all part of the game. J rewards on QF to Europe? Nope, we'll offer you UL or nothing.

You likely travelled a reasonable amount for work, probably on more flexible fares than you would typically purchase yourself for leisure. Whilst you might still have several years of leisure travel in front of you, it likely won't match the total number/value of work and leisure flights you took at the peak of your career. So your biggest spending and most profitable (to them) years are already behind you. Your Future Customer Lifetime Value is in rapid decline, so they now care less about you today than they did last year. And will continue to care less and less every year into the future.

Nevertheless, you typically remain in network for international and prioritise your domestic with them, since you've got these points that are otherwise worthless. So you're burning them upgrading a paid domestic economy fare to a higher class. But again, only on their terms, when they haven't sold the higher class as a revenue seat. In doing so, they're still extracting a reasonable amount of that diminishing Future Lifetime Value. The marginal cost to them of sending you to your domestic destination in an otherwise empty J seat, as opposed to a Y seat is little more than the cost of a cheap meal and an even cheaper glass of wine. And that's before considering the chance they get to sell that Y seat a second time round.

From their perspective, you've been an ideal customer. Lots of value extracted, at only a minimal marginal cost to do so. And who cares if you're now feeling disillusioned or unloved? Your best 'value extracting' days are now behind you. Someone else can deal with the 'second press' of your grape if you decide to move on. And why not? Like a perennially unfaithful spouse, they're already paying much more attention to the younger, more (financially) attractive version of you.

I don't say any of this to have go at anyone, rather to point out that Qantas Loyalty is fundamentally about generating loyalty TO Qantas and exploiting that for commercial benefit. It's not about fairness or rewarding customers who have been loyal to Qantas in the past, regardless of how the marketing is portrayed. They make a lot of money because not everyone gets a reasonable value exchange from that relationship. And the program redesign will be about the future value customers can generate, not what they've delivered to Qantas to date.
 
There's several posts here suggesting better treatment for LTG customers. It's eye opening, even depressing, to look at it from Qantas's perspective. To them, many of the "unloved" LTGs probably look like the archetype perfect customer...

You've committed many, many of your best years of flying with them, enough to accrue LTG. They've extracted additional margin, time and time again, year in, year out, as you've shunned BFOD to stay loyal to Qantas, based on a marketed proposition of future rewards flights. But you've rarely (never, perhaps?) been able to book them. And if you do, it'll only be on their terms. Unwanted dates, strange routings - they're all part of the game. J rewards on QF to Europe? Nope, we'll offer you UL or nothing.

You likely travelled a reasonable amount for work, probably on more flexible fares than you would typically purchase yourself for leisure. Whilst you might still have several years of leisure travel in front of you, it likely won't match the total number/value of work and leisure flights you took at the peak of your career. So your biggest spending and most profitable (to them) years are already behind you. Your Future Customer Lifetime Value is in rapid decline, so they now care less about you today than they did last year. And will continue to care less and less every year into the future.

Nevertheless, you typically remain in network for international and prioritise your domestic with them, since you've got these points that are otherwise worthless. So you're burning them upgrading a paid domestic economy fare to a higher class. But again, only on their terms, when they haven't sold the higher class as a revenue seat. In doing so, they're still extracting a reasonable amount of that diminishing Future Lifetime Value. The marginal cost to them of sending you to your domestic destination in an otherwise empty J seat, as opposed to a Y seat is little more than the cost of a cheap meal and an even cheaper glass of wine. And that's before considering the chance they get to sell that Y seat a second time round.

From their perspective, you've been an ideal customer. Lots of value extracted, at only a minimal marginal cost to do so. And who cares if you're now feeling disillusioned or unloved? Your best 'value extracting' days are now behind you. Someone else can deal with the 'second press' of your grape if you decide to move on. And why not? Like a perennially unfaithful spouse, they're already paying much more attention to the younger, more (financially) attractive version of you.

I don't say any of this to have go at anyone, rather to point out that Qantas Loyalty is fundamentally about generating loyalty TO Qantas and exploiting that for commercial benefit. It's not about fairness or rewarding customers who have been loyal to Qantas in the past, regardless of how the marketing is portrayed. They make a lot of money because not everyone gets a reasonable value exchange from that relationship. And the program redesign will be about the future value customers can generate, not what they've delivered to Qantas to date.
Oh dear @Gremlin - that’s bleak. But I can’t disagree with you.
 
@Gremlin I think you’re pretty well spot on there except by my own experience, and what I’ve seen with others, is that you can achieve LTG with a good 10 years of business flying ahead of you. In fact, in my case, I made LTG when I was in my late 40s ( from memory) and my 50s decade was my peak flying time with many transpacifics and Europe trips in business.

So I would hope they would consider age as well as LTG status, when deciding whether you are worth looking after or not.
 
There's several posts here suggesting better treatment for LTG customers. It's eye opening, even depressing, to look at it from Qantas's perspective. To them, many of the "unloved" LTGs probably look like the archetype perfect customer...

You've committed many, many of your best years of flying with them, enough to accrue LTG. They've extracted additional margin, time and time again, year in, year out, as you've shunned BFOD to stay loyal to Qantas, based on a marketed proposition of future rewards flights. But you've rarely (never, perhaps?) been able to book them. And if you do, it'll only be on their terms. Unwanted dates, strange routings - they're all part of the game. J rewards on QF to Europe? Nope, we'll offer you UL or nothing.

You likely travelled a reasonable amount for work, probably on more flexible fares than you would typically purchase yourself for leisure. Whilst you might still have several years of leisure travel in front of you, it likely won't match the total number/value of work and leisure flights you took at the peak of your career. So your biggest spending and most profitable (to them) years are already behind you. Your Future Customer Lifetime Value is in rapid decline, so they now care less about you today than they did last year. And will continue to care less and less every year into the future.

Nevertheless, you typically remain in network for international and prioritise your domestic with them, since you've got these points that are otherwise worthless. So you're burning them upgrading a paid domestic economy fare to a higher class. But again, only on their terms, when they haven't sold the higher class as a revenue seat. In doing so, they're still extracting a reasonable amount of that diminishing Future Lifetime Value. The marginal cost to them of sending you to your domestic destination in an otherwise empty J seat, as opposed to a Y seat is little more than the cost of a cheap meal and an even cheaper glass of wine. And that's before considering the chance they get to sell that Y seat a second time round.

From their perspective, you've been an ideal customer. Lots of value extracted, at only a minimal marginal cost to do so. And who cares if you're now feeling disillusioned or unloved? Your best 'value extracting' days are now behind you. Someone else can deal with the 'second press' of your grape if you decide to move on. And why not? Like a perennially unfaithful spouse, they're already paying much more attention to the younger, more (financially) attractive version of you.

I don't say any of this to have go at anyone, rather to point out that Qantas Loyalty is fundamentally about generating loyalty TO Qantas and exploiting that for commercial benefit. It's not about fairness or rewarding customers who have been loyal to Qantas in the past, regardless of how the marketing is portrayed. They make a lot of money because not everyone gets a reasonable value exchange from that relationship. And the program redesign will be about the future value customers can generate, not what they've delivered to Qantas to date
So what you are saying is what we have unfortunately always known - with QF loyalty it is a one way street and always will be. Loyalty is a commercial strategy to exploit the customer while they are lucrative for QF and then abandon them when they are no longer sufficiently profitable to bother with.
 
@Gremlin I think you’re pretty well spot on there except by my own experience, and what I’ve seen with others, is that you can achieve LTG with a good 10 years of business flying ahead of you. In fact, in my case, I made LTG when I was in my late 40s ( from memory) and my 50s decade was my peak flying time with many transpacifics and Europe trips in business.

So I would hope they would consider age as well as LTG status, when deciding whether you are worth looking after or not.
I also made LTG around the same age as you @RooFlyer and have also flown a lot since then.

But the idea of considering age when
deciding whether you are worth looking after or not.
just smacks of age discrimination to me.
 
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@Gremlin The very reason I regret not pursuing BAEC rather than QFF. A much more achievable LTOWE for less money. I'm just about to hit LTG and it makes me wonder about the pursuit of it all.
 
Be Afraid! This is more PR-driven weasel words from our once beloved airline. The New Year is likely to see our QF Points devalued and some meaningless “improvements“ to the FF Program (earn and use points for wine, tech products, hotel bookings etc.).
A key thing that QF got wrong was the assumption that all this negative bad press would die down... it didn't. Blackjack rode out many waves of negative publicity at Qantas in the past from holding the airline hostage to avert a pilot strike to more recently calling travellers not match fit with little consequence. However, when the ACCC lawsuit on cancelled flights came up combined with the other usual fiascos Qantas was engaged in (i.e. travel credit expiry) not even he, teflon Alan could withstand the heat and had to resign.

Sidenote: I sometimes refer to disgraced former Qantas CEO Alan Joyce by his initials (AJ) which in the card game of Blackjack would be a blackjack. Apologies for any confusion that may have caused.

The self-serving outcome Qantas is focussed on is to reduce the contingent liability impact on its Balance Sheet that arises from the FF Program.
With all do respect, nothing Qantas does is self-serving. Don't believe me? Try rebooking a flight they cancel on you on your own. Can't be done! Some may point to self-service kiosks at airports but other airlines including JétStar the luxury brand of Qantas have been doing that for years. And even then you often need to go to the counter to check-in.
That’s how you drive executive bonus payments not how you win back trust with your loyal customers. Time to use them or lose them?
That's a very pessimistic look at the situation. Could there be a devaluation? Possibly. But that is true with every FFP not just QF. And look we can speculate about how QF "enhances" to rewards program but it'll be just that... speculation. What matters at the end of the day is if you can find a redemption of value. Even if we suppose for a moment that QF classic J awards to Europe and North America increase by 25% that may not be a bad outcome if there was a guarantee that you'd be able to find a seat. Indeed, I suspect many on this forum would begrudgingly take that 25% hike if it means not having to monitor QFF every day to find a routing that'll get them to Europe or the Americas.
 
@Gremlin The very reason I regret not pursuing BAEC rather than QFF. A much more achievable LTOWE for less money. I'm just about to hit LTG and it makes me wonder about the pursuit of it all.
I would make the argument that Lifetime Gold (OWS) is really the best you can do on OneWorld. Sure some people will point to access to the Flounge, and whilst that is very nice indeed, OWS gets the main benefits you need when you are travelling OneWorld: lounge access, priority everything, seat selection, extra checked bag, etc. At that point, one could argue that you are better off seeking lifetime status on the other alliances like SkyTeam (10 years top tier with Air France will do that) and Star Alliance (1,000,000 miles on UA). In that way irrespective of which airline you fly, you'll be guaranteed to be treated well.

-RooFlyer88
 
For me simply:
1. Reducing the "carrier charges" to a reasonable level, i.e not approaching cash ticket costs.

2. Fix 'Points & Pay' to be something that is actually a viable option, not hundreds of thousands of points for basic domestic flights. I don't understand why they reduced the points cost of classic rewards flights, they are fine, low even, but leaving P&P at laughably high costs. (Does anyone actually use it?). This would apply especially to Y seats.
 
1. Reducing the "carrier charges" to a reasonable level, i.e not approaching cash ticket costs.

I don't find the carrier charges on QF J classic awards anywhere near the cash ticket price, 10% max. Whereas QR and EK carrier charges can be 3-4 times the QF ones.
 

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