Qantas frequent flyers unleash over ‘almost worthless points’ in submissions to Senate

[Mr H]

LOL @ 540k points yet "price nearly gone"

(obviously it just aligns with the cash saver fare almost being gone but still: hi-lar-i-ous. act fast to secure this bargain, folks!)

Yep - a QF point is worth 0.61 cents with @Quickstatus's dream redemption model. I feel hard done by if I redeem at less than 3 cents per point.

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

Yep - a QF point is worth 0.61 cents with @Quickstatus's dream redemption model. I feel hard done by if I redeem at less than 3 cents per point.

Heck, a CR in Y from SYD-MEL yields more than double the value even when there's a killer sale on the cash fare.

I too shall pass on this [bad]dream model.

 

[Must...Fly!]

My floor is 1.6c/point

Not hard to see why most are against the idea. I think VA is actually closest to fair for both parties, revenue based earning but category/distance based burning.

 

[Lynda2475]

Isn't it because Qantas actively lobbied for their additional flights to be blocked? EK partnership has been there for a long time. It's only relatively recently that QR dropped reward seat availability.

No the QR withholding premium seats started well before QF objected to them getting more capacity. QR want to sell more of their seats not give them away.

 

[RooFlyer]

Listening to the 'on hold' messages calling QF Plat line.

Tells me that qantas.com is the best way to find classic rewards seats - simply go there and choose "use points" .... No mention of the second step of "select classic rewards filter". So go there ... and see points+pay.

 

[Kangol]

I do think part of the problem - in general as opposed to QFF in particular - is perhaps related to expectation

Expectation is the entire problem and the only problem.

Most people expect to get something of *high* value, for (almost) nothing.
None of the people complaining here and in other forums explicitly admit to this, even though that is their desire.
It's human nature, if you could get a $10-15k+ J/F ticket for cents on the dollar, of course you would say yes.
If they see someone else getting it, they expect to get it themselves, unconditionally.
They feel entitled, as if it were a birthright.

Qantas designed their own rules to allow you access to something of high value for nothing, only if you are loyal to them.
If you are not loyal to them, you will not be, and should not be rewarded - as per the rules of their game.
It would be a stupid idea for the unloyal (to Qantas) to believe that they should be treated as equal to the loyal. Not saying they're not thinking that

 

[Mr H]

Expectation is the entire problem and the only problem.

Most people expect to get something of *high* value, for (almost) nothing.
None of the people complaining here and in other forums explicitly admit to this, even though that is their desire.
It's human nature, if you could get a $10-15k+ J/F ticket for cents on the dollar, of course you would say yes.
If they see someone else getting it, they expect to get it themselves, unconditionally.
They feel entitled, as if it were a birthright.

Qantas designed their own rules to allow you access to something of high value for nothing, only if you are loyal to them.
If you are not loyal to them, you will not be, and should not be rewarded - as per the rules of their game.
It would be a stupid idea for the unloyal (to Qantas) to believe that they should be treated as equal to the loyal. Not saying they're not thinking that

I do admit to wanting to get something of high value for almost nothing. I game the FF system to my advantage - although the nothing I pay seems to add up to quite a lot after a while.

I do believe that FF points act as a kind of currency or company scrip. I am a believer that vendors should be blind to customers - they make a value proposition and must honour that value proposition for any potential customer as long as there is stock available. I think it is no more acceptable for QF to offer seats to some but not all customers, than it is for a cake shop to refuse to serve a gay client, or for a landlord to put up a sign saying "no Blacks, no Irish". Anyone who is able to acquire the currency should be able to get the same value from it.

I think this is way different to access to lounges or priority check in where the benefits of status do not directly reduce the opportunity for non-status passengers.

 

[Lynda2475]

think it is no more acceptable for QF to offer seats to some but not all customers, than it is for a cake shop to refuse to serve a gay client, or for a landlord to put up a sign saying "no Blacks, no Irish"

I do not think it is the same thing at all. QF are not refusing to make award seats available to non status passengers, they are just giving more valuable customer first dibs.

Most retailers offer early access to sales for their best most frequent customers.

For example Amazon Prime Day is coming up, but as a Prime member I get early access to the sale ahead of non members, even though those non members may also shop at Amazon a lot.

If you are a paid member of a fan club you get early access to concert tickets, ahead of the fans who perhaps purchased the album but did not fork out extra to join the club. Telstra, Amex or Visa card holders frequently get early access to pre-sales ahead of the general public too.

Same with footy finals tickets, there is special allocation made for club members of the competing teams, ahead of other tickets going on sale.

Companies can and do reward those who are of most value to them; to keep you sticky and coming back.

You and I can both earn the same number of FFPs from CC sign-up and both be points club; but because I also pay cash to fly with QF as well; I would expect to be considered a higher value customer because QF make more from my paid tickets than they do from selling my CC points.

Also as explained preferential access to award inventory is a published benefit of status; which isn't always offered atm but clear when you sign-up so you shouldn't expect to have the same access if you don't buy any QF revenue tickets.

There are some benefits for being PC; this is recent and puts you ahead of others who earn points slower over a longer period unless they have higher status.

 

[Kangol]

I do admit to wanting to get something of high value for almost nothing. I game the FF system to my advantage - although the nothing I pay seems to add up to quite a lot after a while.

I do believe that FF points act as a kind of currency or company scrip. I am a believer that vendors should be blind to customers - they make a value proposition and must honour that value proposition for any potential customer as long as there is stock available. I think it is no more acceptable for QF to offer seats to some but not all customers, than it is for a cake shop to refuse to serve a gay client, or for a landlord to put up a sign saying "no Blacks, no Irish". Anyone who is able to acquire the currency should be able to get the same value from it.

I think this is way different to access to lounges or priority check in where the benefits of status do not directly reduce the opportunity for non-status passengers.

That's the wrong way to look at it though, because the "no gay, black, Irish etc" example has absolutely nothing to do with the way QFF has designed its rules to differentiate the access they give to the loyal vs the unloyal.

They let everyone know before signing up, that if customers are loyal, they will have preferential access to higher value opportunities to use their "artificial" (not backed by a central bank) currency before those who are unloyal have access.

The way QFF run their game is identical to the way other groups, clubs, businesses offer an option to "pay $__ for preferential access to benefits/services".

This makes no difference to the above, but QFF are blind to their customers. When you make a points redemption, QFF don't know if you are gay, black, Irish etc.

 

[Quickstatus]

We can already see how junk it is - this is for a one way flight MEL-SIN:

I'm not sure but I'm thinking you are missing the point - again.

I'm talking about a wholesale change where there are no longer classic reward seats . In other words, a FF point has the same $ value regardless of how it is used. The current points plus pay is not, because it is a different tier.

Make it all one tier, one value, and let's see what value QF puts on it.

 

[Lynda2475]

I'm not sure but I'm thinking you are missing the point - again.

I'm talking about a wholesale change where there are no longer classic reward seats . In other words, a FF point has the same $ value regardless of how it is used. The current points plus pay is not, because it is a different tier.

Make it all one tier, one value, and let's see what value QF puts on it.

I think this is an absolutely terrible idea.

Classic redemptions are where the best value is, and diluting this so less engaged members with no status can get same access as actual frequent flyers would grossly devalue the program for everyone. Even those aspirational customers, who may take a few years to get the points they need, suddenly find our they are years more away from realising any reward.

QFF just need to resume releasing classic awards 330 days out on all flights; and only do bulk releases if they are bouses on top of the usual availability i.e. points planes when new routes are launched or suspended ones resumed.

 

[Mr H]

I'm not sure but I'm thinking you are missing the point - again.

I'm talking about a wholesale change where there are no longer classic reward seats . In other words, a FF point has the same $ value regardless of how it is used. The current points plus pay is not, because it is a different tier.

Make it all one tier, one value, and let's see what value QF puts on it.

Oh FFS - how many times do you need to be told that this system already exists and QF has put a value of 0.61 cents per point?

That is a fraction of the value people get right now, and it would put reward flights on the same value footing as toasters. The current system works by letting people use points to access seats that airlines assume would be empty anyway. If you are going to let people use the points to access seats that would normally be sold then they will have to pay the commercial price for them, albeit by using points as an intermediate currency. At that point, you might as well just use cash anyway.

 

[stopthecap]

I am buying my points through Qantas wine for 0.2 cents per point. (With a case of $30 dollar wine thrown in) every 20k points. with a J flight to BKK valued at 4k one way + or 68400 points + 200 bucks the value of each point for me is .50 cents per point (not including approx 40 bottles of $30 buck wine worth about $1200 bucks). Scuse the math i have a headache now.

 

[Mr H]

I am buying my points through Qantas wine for 0.2 cents per point. (With a case of $30 dollar wine thrown in) every 20k points. with a J flight to BKK valued at 4k one way + or 68400 points + 200 bucks the value of each point for me is .50 cents per point (not including approx 40 bottles of $30 buck wine worth about $1200 bucks). Scuse the math i have a headache now.

View attachment 348263

You have got a great bargain, but your maths is rotten. You are paying 2 cents per point and you appear to be getting 5.5 cents of value per point - with free wine.

 

[Quickstatus]

how many times do you need to be told that this system already exists and QF has put a value of 0.61 cents per point?

Oh FFS how many time do I have to tell you that is not the system I'm advocating for.

Take away classic rewards. Then recalculate the value...

Post automatically merged: Oct 6, 2023

Classic redemptions are where the best value is,

Yes I know , and that's why QF can create a second tier junk level of points plus pay.

Make it one tier, revalue the FF points

 

[Mr H]

Oh FFS how many time do I have to tell you that is not the system I'm advocating for.

Take away classic rewards. Then recalculate the value...

The value would recalculate exactly as it is - 0.61 cents per dollar. Or do you have a reason to think that it would be different?

 

[Quickstatus]

The value would recalculate exactly as it is

How would you know? Classic rewards still exist.

 

[Mr H]

How would you know? Classic rewards still exist.

Why does that matter? Qantas has determined that when it comes to selling a revenue flight for points, the points are worth 0.61 cents. Are you suggesting that if we lose classic awards, the dollar price for revenue fares would also fall? You seem to be clinging to moonbeams hoping that somehow abolishing classic rewards would make prices fall.

 

[levelnine]

How would you know? Classic rewards still exist.

How much do you honestly think Qantas would value QF points for QF flights at if they abolished classic rewards?

 

[Lynda2475]

Make it one tier, revalue the FF points

No leave Classic Rewards in place, they are all I use and your proposal would make it more expensive than if Classic Rewards remain.