Qantas' Impending Change to Tokyo Flight Schedule

[elanshin]

It won’t take 2 hours to transfer at that time of night, real world experience we were delayed an hour on arrival due to storms and my travelling partner who was connecting to ADL still got 30 mins in the lounge. Flight was held due to delays and everyone made it.

We hit a storm and landed at 23:45 after a detour to CBR. Got to be the first time I've flown HND-CBR.

But the other time we took it, landed about 40mins late. Still had time to make connections but would mean having to beeline it straight over as quick as possible.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

It was 7pm arrival in summer time and now back at 6pm so even easier

 

[DC3]

An extension has been granted by IASC.

Capacity needs to be utilised by 30 November 2025.

What a fizzer.

 

[jpp42]

Plenty of people get the day flights out of Australia to Asia, why would a day flight back be any different?

Within HND/NRT in particular, arriving early enough for the flight requires either an expensive taxi, or arriving the night before and an airport hotel - public transport doesn't start early enough. By that point, you might as well just get on a night flight since you're already planning your trip around arriving to the airport in the evening. This really applies to both Australians and Japanese locals alike.

Regarding day flights northbound, Australian locals have lots of other methods besides public transport to get to the airport. And for the Japanese, there is a long tradition of using overnight flights where possible to save on accommodation costs and reduce number of days away from home. So if Qantas does have any success selling locally in the Japanese market, they will not be keen on day flights inherently. Hence, why Qantas has often operated their flagship flight to Tokyo with night flights in both directions, despite this requiring 2 aircraft for daily service instead of using 1 with a turnaround.

The slight time difference also means that northbound day flights depart a bit later in Australian time than a southbound flight departs in Asian time, again making it easier to connect to get to the Australian departure airport (or even make a connection from elsewhere in Australia), compared to the timing required for the early morning HND departures being discussed here. Those few hours make a big difference when relying on public transport.

 

[half-hour]

Within HND/NRT in particular, arriving early enough for the flight requires either an expensive taxi, or arriving the night before and an airport hotel - public transport doesn't start early enough. By that point, you might as well just get on a night flight since you're already planning your trip around arriving to the airport in the evening. This really applies to both Australians and Japanese locals alike.

I disagree with this.

If I'm taking an early morning flight I can do whatever I want in Tokyo all day and head to the airport hotel after dinner. Alternatively I can be spending the day outside of Tokyo and head to the airport hotel in the evening.

If I'm taking an evening flight then I'm likely going to have to start heading my accommodation after lunch to pick up my bags before travelling to the airport whilst leaving enough time for potential transport delays etc.

The morning flight effectively gives another half day compared to the evening flight.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I disagree with this.

If I'm taking an early morning flight I can do whatever I want in Tokyo all day and head to the airport hotel after dinner. Alternatively I can be spending the day outside of Tokyo and head to the airport hotel in the evening.

If I'm taking an evening flight then I'm likely going to have to start heading my accommodation after lunch to pick up my bags before travelling to the airport whilst leaving enough time for potential transport delays etc.

The morning flight effectively gives another half day compared to the evening flight.

Agree. My most recent trip on QF26 I was actually in Osaka the whole day prior, then I took a 5pm shinkansen back to Tokyo and off to the airport hotel for a nice snooze before the trip and a final visit to a konbini for snacks (Lawson next to the Fontaine premier )

 

[sevenfourtyseven]

Interesting speculation - A380s to Haneda in November.

Could the delay in Qantas's Narita → Haneda switch be because they're planning to deploy the A380?

Australia and Japan have an open skies agreement that allows for unlimited capacity between the countries.

www.analyticflying.com

 

[justin23]

I was wondering what was happening to my flights in May, flying CBR-BNE-NRT. Sounds like its not moving to Haneda by then (no biggie as the time sounded later anyway) I mostly chose this route because outbound i prefer a day flight and prefer to arrive at night and get a good nights sleep. Returning overnight via MEL.

 

[DC3]

I was wondering what was happening to my flights in May, flying CBR-BNE-NRT. Sounds like it’s not moving to Haneda by then …

Yes, QF has been a bit toungue-tied about this.

 

[justin23]

Interesting speculation - A380s to Haneda in November.

Could the delay in Qantas's Narita → Haneda switch be because they're planning to deploy the A380?

Australia and Japan have an open skies agreement that allows for unlimited capacity between the countries.

www.analyticflying.com

As i was reading that why no operate the A380 to Narita.... i'm guessing they want to have all their flights into Haneda though. It is frustrating the lack of Premium economy into Asia in general IMO.

 

[05flyer]

As i was reading that why no operate the A380 to Narita.... i'm guessing they want to have all their flights into Haneda though. It is frustrating the lack of Premium economy into Asia in general IMO.

I recall reading a few months ago that Haneda has a restrictive daily cap on A380s owing to space constraints.

Not sure on the accuracy of that, but could be a limiting factor for QF even if they now have the slots at HND.

 

[justinbrett]

All of this speculation is from a single AFF member quoting sources he created, not that there’s anything wrong with that but important to consider the context.

 

[elanshin]

I recall reading a few months ago that Haneda has a restrictive daily cap on A380s owing to space constraints.

Not sure on the accuracy of that, but could be a limiting factor for QF even if they now have the slots at HND.

For context, QF wanted a380 to replace their 747 ops to HND after the 747 retirement. They couldn't work out a way to cleanly do it as it involved HND lifting some restrictions and hence we're at 330s.

There's been discussion before about a380 into HND. But without changing the status quo on HND restrictions it boils down to:
Bad landing times (dumping 300+ pax at 11pm with a very tight window for public transport seems ill advised)
Red eye Late night departure (~1am or so)

 

[buggy00]

Would an a380 on a SYD - NRT route work? Or even seasonal NRT routes utilising the a380?

 

[Himeno]

For context, QF wanted a380 to replace their 747 ops to HND after the 747 retirement. They couldn't work out a way to cleanly do it as it involved HND lifting some restrictions and hence we're at 330s.

There's been discussion before about a380 into HND. But without changing the status quo on HND restrictions it boils down to:
Bad landing times (dumping 300+ pax at 11pm with a very tight window for public transport seems ill advised)
Red eye Late night departure (~1am or so)

They could lease a pair of 744s from LH and go back to the old timetable.

 

[Himeno]

Would an a380 on a SYD - NRT route work? Or even seasonal NRT routes utilising the a380?

The entire reason they got the HND slots in the first place is because it is closer to central Tokyo and they can charge a premium for the "better" airport. They won't want to drop 485 seats, with 144 premium passengers, into an airport an hour away from Tokyo when they have access to an airport 20 mins away.

 

[buggy00]

The entire reason they got the HND slots in the first place is because it is closer to central Tokyo and they can charge a premium for the "better" airport. They won't want to drop 485 seats, with 144 premium passengers, into an airport an hour away from Tokyo when they have access to an airport 20 mins away.

I mean i wonder if there's a justified use-case to have the SYD/MEL/BNE to HND flights with an addition of the a380 to Narita? Or based on current loads, that current QF/JQ flights meet the current high-demand for Japan, especially over the winter season and an a380 would be overkill?

 

[Aeryn]

Narita is viewed as a budget airport because its a long way out of Tokyo, so imo more suited to Jetstar than Qantas metal. If you are continuing on elsewhere with another full service airline its also likely to be leaving HND.

 

[elanshin]

I mean i wonder if there's a justified use-case to have the SYD/MEL/BNE to HND flights with an addition of the a380 to Narita? Or based on current loads, that current QF/JQ flights meet the current high-demand for Japan, especially over the winter season and an a380 would be overkill?

We don't have enough demand to justify 3 HND slots AND an a380 to NRT.

Remember it's not just QF servicing this route. JAL and ANA are also flying. The full service "premium market" is pretty full. If anything we have a big need for more LCC to NRT. Loads of friends flying cheap on one stops via HKG, CAN or PVG.

 

[evanb]

All of this speculation is from a single AFF member quoting sources he created, not that there’s anything wrong with that but important to consider the context.

The underlying article clearly states it's speculation so there's no revelation here. The point that the article makes is that there isn't any good reason to delay the switch other than an aircraft change. What alternative hypothesis is there to delay the switch any further?