Qantas in talks on seating shake-up

[Slats7]

Qantas in talks on seating shake-up | The Australian

QANTAS Airways is holding discussions with manufacturers about a seat reconfiguration of its fleet, but it is too early to give details of the possible changes, a spokeswoman for Qantas said today.

The airline is reportedly in plans to eliminate two-thirds of its first-class seating as part of a $400 million reconfiguration of its long-haul fleet, reducing the number of aircraft with first-class seating to 12 from 30.

It will be interesting to see if first-class seats will only be available on flights between Sydney and Los Angeles or London via Singapore.

 

[notzac]

There was more detail about this in todays AFR - for anyone with an AFR login, the article is here: Qantas plans to slash first-class seats

Basically, the plan is to remove First from the B744s, then have two subfleets of A388s:

• 12 with 14F/60J/32W/380Y (14F/332Y downstairs, 60J/32W/48Y upstairs)
• 8 with 60J/40W?/400Y?

The only routes to have F would be SYD/SIN/LHR and SYD/LAX. The article also mentioned a revamp of the J hard product across the fleet.

 

[djfuzz]

If that really is their plan, it seems like it would be redundant to retain the MEL F lounge, with all its bells and whistles, and create a smaller, less opulent lounge for WPs / OWEs etc.

Taking F out of MEL completely is a fair bit more drastic than keeping it to the LAX/LHR routes. I thought F demand appeared to be pretty strong for those routes, I'd be interested to hear if it's so bad that its worth eliminating. Such a move could easily result in MEL F pax switching carriers, which would be a loss of some fairly high margin customers.

Also, 12 F-configured A380s seems a lot to service only two daily routes (presumably not including QF107/8). Would be weird to eliminate F off QF's longest eastward flight too, again would have thought F demand to JFK was reasonable.

If anything, I would have thought the W seating would be expanding into the J seating on the A380, 72J is surely too much - and W must give them a better margin than heavily discounted Y fares.

Wonder how the J hard product would be revamped to compensate for the loss of F?

 

[MelUser]

I don't mind them removing 1st but am shocked at plans to reduce J:

- specifically it will reduce seats available for for RTW in D class and upgrades. I won't even mention I class business. It is easier to get an upgrade into business class on points than to buy an I class business fare from Qantas; and

- the upstairs of the A380 has a very private feel to it with no economy passengers allowed upstairs.

 

[notzac]

Also, 12 F-configured A380s seems a lot to service only two daily routes (presumably not including QF107/8). Would be weird to eliminate F off QF's longest eastward flight too, again would have thought F demand to JFK was reasonable.

That's what I thought as well. Given that they've just blown a bunch of cash in redoing the F and J lounges in HKG, maybe they intend to keep F on MEL-HKG-LHR (and maybe MEL-LAX as well)?

Wonder how the J hard product would be revamped to compensate for the loss of F?

Hopefully proper lie-flat for the entire fleet!

 

[markis10]

Also, 12 F-configured A380s seems a lot to service only two daily routes (presumably not including QF107/8). Would be weird to eliminate F off QF's longest eastward flight too, again would have thought F demand to JFK was reasonable.

I think you will find its three daily routes, one to LHR and two to LAX, with the LAX-NY leg taken over by an A330 from July 5.

 

[MelUser]

I think you will find its three daily routes, one to LHR and two to LAX, with the LAX-NY leg taken over by an A330 from July 5.

I've heard the A330 LAX-JFK rumour too.

 

[Wunala Dreaming]

I've heard the A330 LAX-JFK rumour too.

SYD-AKL-LAX-JFK..

Cough cough.. QF141

 

[docjames]

I just wish this re-config would put Y+ seating into the A330 :evil:

Particularly if it's doing SYD-AKL-LAX-JFK.....

 

[Danger]

For those unable to access the AFR article:

• Qantas Airways plans to strip out two-thirds of its first-class seating under a $400 million project to reconfigure its long-haul fleet.
• The airline will be left with 12 aircraft with first-class seating, down from 30 . . .
• First-class seating will be abolished altogether from the Qantas Boeing 747 fleet, while 12 of the Airbus A380 aircraft will have 14 first-class seats each. As a result the number of economy seats on some aircraft could increase by more than 20 per cent.
• Under the plan, Qantas's future fleet of 20 A380 planes will have two configurations.
• Twelve of the double-decker aircraft will have 14 first-class seats downstairs. Its other eight A380s will carry only three classes - economy, premium economy and business. The 12 A380s will have 332 economy seats downstairs - unchanged from its current configuration - 48 economy upstairs, 60 business seats (instead of 72 currently) and 32 premium economy upstairs.
• The other eight A380s will have 400 economy seats - slightly more than Emirates and Singapore Airlines on the same aircraft type - as well as business and premium economy.
• First class will be stripped from 747s entirely when four classes become three.
• Qantas also planned to upgrade its business-class product, a source said.
• The revamp will not include aircraft due for retirement.
• As part of the review, Qantas has also looked at an internal configuration for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft on order so they can be switched for use between Qantas and its low-cost offshoot, Jetstar, without any major changes except in soft furnishings.
• Last November he [Alan Joyce] told The AFR the airline had too many business- and premium-class seats on some aircraft under the current configurations . . . Seat pitch in all classes would not channge, he said.
• The reconfiguration is not expected to affect Qantas's domestic or Jetstar services.

 

[Dee Thom]

I just wish this re-config would put Y+ seating into the A330 :evil:

Particularly if it's doing SYD-AKL-LAX-JFK.....

Yup they're going to have to increase Y+ just to keep up with VA and our neighbours! Ever since James Strong left the helm, QF have fallen behind in regards to seating and metal, me thinks the Irish lad has a lot of catching up to do, and extra Y+ is the start.
Wonder how they'll configure the 787 when they get it?

Cheers Dee

 

[Homer]

An associate of mine with access to a QF insider says the board has not yet made a final decision but the media reports are essentially correct - QF feels that their 744 F product is dated and changing the 744s to a mix of Y, Y+ and J is on the cards. Apparently QF may also decide not to purchase any more 380s, depending on what Boeing does with their Dreamliners.

 

[djfuzz]

Apparently QF may also decide not to purchase any more 380s, depending on what Boeing does with their Dreamliners.

Really? Seems a little odd - if anything, aren't they in completely different categories (~250 pax / ~450-500 pax)?

Would have thought the Dreamliners were coming in to replace the 330s/767s.

 

[samh004]

For those unable to access the AFR article:

• As part of the review, Qantas has also looked at an internal configuration for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft on order so they can be switched for use between Qantas and its low-cost offshoot, Jetstar, without any major changes except in soft furnishings.

Hopefully that means JQ’s offerings improve to match QF’s, not QF’s getting worse to match JQ’s.

 

[markis10]

Really? Seems a little odd - if anything, aren't they in completely different categories (~250 pax / ~450-500 pax)?

Would have thought the Dreamliners were coming in to replace the 330s/767s.

QF may have decided its more of a frequency play than a capacity play, A330's seem to be taking over more and more of the 744 routes so this may just be the next step forward, wasnt the same argument used by Boeing to not develop an aircraft similar to the A380 any further than the 747-8? It may well be the case that now that the novelty has worn off, the routes an A380 can make good money on are fewer than first thought?

 

[notzac]

Hopefully that means JQ’s offerings improve to match QF’s, not QF’s getting worse to match JQ’s.

You're optimistic!

 

[markis10]

You're optimistic!

I would have said very naive, not much point having two airlines with the same offering owned by the same entity, that sort of duplicaiton is best left to governments.

 

[markis10]

Ever since James Strong left the helm, QF have fallen behind in regards to seating and metal, me thinks the Irish lad has a lot of catching up to do, and extra Y+ is the start.

James Strong is still a director, despite being a non executive I am sure his voice and experience must still carry some weight !

 

[samh004]

I would have said very naive, not much point having two airlines with the same offering owned by the same entity, that sort of duplicaiton is best left to governments.

Well I hardly see how they can just change soft-furnishings to use the same layout for two different airlines then.

I was thinking it either means that JQ offers economy and starclass (and QF uses that for a Y/Y+ offering) or QF offers Y/J (and JQ upgrades starclass to match).

 

[markis10]

Well I hardly see how they can just change soft-furnishings to use the same layout for two different airlines then.

I was thinking it either means that JQ offers economy and starclass (and QF uses that for a Y/Y+ offering) or QF offers Y/J (and JQ upgrades starclass to match).

I see what you mean, I doubt option 2, more likely a y & y+ scenario, with the recent Starclass sales and the reported easy availability of paid ODUs I dont think Starclass is showing the demand to justify an upgrade closer to QF J. A domestic Y/J could become a international JQ config easily though, thats essentialy what the current * class is in many ways including leg room and IFE.