Qantas law unto themselves - don't waste your time with ACA complaint

[straitman]

[mod hat]Any more discussion about moderation will lead to an infraction.

Please read the forum rules. ANY discussion about moderation is not acceptable[/mod hat]

Several recent posts will now be 'pruned'

 

[admin]

Just a reminder that we don't permit any public discussion on (or advice for) moderation and have therefore removed some posts from this thread.

Posts or topics discussing moderator actions or AFF Management practices are not permitted and will be removed.

Terms of Service - Australian Frequent Flyer

Terms of Service The Australian Frequent Flyer ("AFF", "we", "us", "our") is the provider of the australianfrequentflyer.com.au website ("Service"). Our

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[eastwest101]

Has anyone had the experience with Q bag tag readers where the bag is scanned and goes partly into the conveyor belt then gets held up there? I assume this takes the terminal out of action until some sort of human intervention, if it were me and the flight departure were so close I would be tempted to leave my bag right there with the assumption that its now Qantas' problem, not mine, and proceed to security and the gate.

FIFO can be a PITA if you aren't assigned your own room/locker on-site and have to carry bags to and from site. For this reason and many more most sites try to have a solution on-site (rooms or lockers) that minimises the back and fourth with baggage.

Pretty bone-headed/poor decision making by the first QF representative to send the OP to a queue rather than enquire about whether they are checked in and for which flight.

 

[opusman]

Has anyone had the experience with Q bag tag readers where the bag is scanned and goes partly into the conveyor belt then gets held up there?

No, never had that. I've had them refuse to read the tag plenty of times. And about 75% of the time the printed receipt ends up inside the cabinet. But never had it reject it once it had started taking it away.

Seems a bit odd to be honest - once it's accepted it that should be it, why would it still be doing further checks at the same time the belt is moving? Doesn't really make sense (not that I'm doubting the OP, but from a software point of view it just doesn't seem logical).

 

[justinbrett]

I had a friend (not the brightest guy TBH), check in a bag without a Q-tag (I was guesting him into the BNE J lounge and we were using the premium check in area).

He didn't print a barcode and checked his bag in at the kiosk, and it took his bag away. When I questioned him on it (knowing he didn't have a Q tag), we told the ground agent who said "You must have a tag in the bag". Umm - no. He doesn't even know what one looks like. She wouldn't hear of it.

In the end we asked at the lounge and they tracked the bag down - it was already in a special pile of lost bags.

I do not trust Q-tags.

 

[JohnPhelan]

I don't think you understand how the technology works, if I've understood your comment correctly. There is no writing or over-writing of the data on the Q-tag. It simply is a RFID. In the sense when the reader queries it, it responds back with a GUID (globally unique ID). The analogy to the paper tag is it uses a laser to scan the barcode (which is also a unique ID). The ID gets associated in the QF system with the passenger's trip (whether its from the RFID or barcode).

As per Opusman's reply with the explanation from QF, my understanding of QF's technology from the very start of the Q-tags was that the tag would have the pax's flight number, destination, name and QFF data overwritten onto it each time it was checked in. This is why they said it was no problem for one person to give their tag to someone else for a flight - that the data on the tag was wiped each time, and new data overwritten.

Hence my suspicion that what has occurred here is that the data did not correctly overwrite to the Q-tag.

 

[JohnPhelan]

I do not trust Q-tags.

And nor do most QF staff!

 

[Vic]

The logic you are displaying can be described as poor.

In your opinion...
Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Max Samuels]

Wow everyone gets so cranky! Who cares if the OP ranted about Trump? Obviously a very frustrated passenger.
I was able to read the post in its entirety and understand the gist even with the Trump references.

I can empathise with you. I am a lowly QFPlat and have on NUMEROUS occasions fallen afoul of the self-check kiosks. In fact, just 2 weeks ago when transiting through MEL to BNE from Japan, I arrived in the Domestic terminal 40 min prior to departure, and the printed bag tag had become damaged/unreadable during transit and the domestic bag drop-off machines at MEL couldn't read it. By the time a QF ground staff noticed me the bag-check window had closed :-(

Luckily for me though there are more than one flight a day and they just put me on the next one.

Last week, in BNE, the JQ bag drop-off thing wouldn't read my bag tag either.... and the lady there assisting people tried 3 or 4 times before saying "this happens all the time love - go over the oversized baggage and they will check it in manually for you"..... luckily for me, there was only 2 or 3 people waiting in that line. But I can tell from the miles and miles of bollards and ropes set up, that the line can become busy!

Anyway - I totally relate. What I find the most hilarious and annoying is the complete inflexibility - they seem to have given all the power to skynet. I have actually been denied checking in luggage before for a flight that left 3 hours late..... go figure?

 

[Mrmaxwell]

I'm curious, what would you have done, exactly?

I would have calmly but firmly instructed the QF staff to assist at once as my flight is closing.

I would not be palmed off/directed elsewhere, I would not let them go back to their texting/chatting - I would ensure they do their job.

Having a chartered flight at T-30 you are priority one in the QF terminal - everyone else can wait a few minutes until you are sorted.

 

[Jousams]

As brief as I can this is what happened.
Regular weekly silver QFF flyer for work - charter flights. Arrive at airport 45mins before departure (as per recommendation) same as always - done this many, many times. Step up to the bag drop (QFF bag tags) to check single bag and machine can't read the tag. Readjust the tag orientation. Still can't read. All other bag drops occupied with queues. Readjust tag to point bar code at camera, still won't read. This goes on and on. Same tag as always used and used subsequently with no problem. Manage to attract attention of disinterested ground staff, who proceed to try exactly the same things. Eventually after many attempts, the bag drop machine decides to start working again and the bag is accepted. It starts being carried away on the conveyor, then stops, reverses and a message comes up on screen saying "Bag cannot be accepted at this time - see ground staff". It is now a few seconds less than 30mins before the schedule flight departure time.

I proceed to the ground staff and ask them to manually check the bag as the bag drop clearly doesn't work. They don't do this, but instead tap some keys and pick up a phone and call someone before telling me I should present myself at the Qantas service desk. Stand in a queue at the service desk operated by a single staff member (it is before 6am) for another 20mins during which my flight has now departed without me 3 minutes early at 5:47am (confirmed via Qantas app data). Service desk staff member has no idea why I've been sent there and appears extremely frustrated that I've been palmed off onto her by the baggage ground staff when she can't help me and has no idea what to suggest beyond "come back again tomorrow".

Flight missed, pay docked (> $800) by employer for "no show" missed flight. Qantas advise employer my fault for not allowing enough time to check in prior to flight. Complaint lodged with Qantas, which is never acknowledged or responded to in any way. Complaint lodged with ACA. Qantas again respond in same way as to employer. Vast quantities of evidence are presented to back the case including photographs of the error messages on the bag drop machine display and proof from the Qantas app they departed the plane 3 minutes early (which would have made all the difference to me making it in time despite the broken bag drop reader). Qantas simply ignore all the evidence and stick to the line that the customer did not leave enough time to check-in.

ACA acknowledge powerless to compel the airline to do anything, so that's the end. Ergo, Qantas and Donald Trump are the same. They can say and claim any garbage they like completely devoid of any truth and get away with it because they're unanswerable to any authority and can do whatever they wish, whenever they wish.

Moral of the story: When you eventually get screwed over by Qantas due in no part to any fault of your own (and you will, it's only a matter of time), don't bother wasting your life by complaining to them or the Airline Customer Advocate. Just book on Virgin instead. There is no point. It's as effective as reasoning with Donald Trump. I wasted 4 months of my life trying to get justice and ultimately got nowhere.

You had me until you started with the orange man bad cough.

 

[Matthews]

As brief as I can this is what happened.
Regular weekly silver QFF flyer for work - charter flights. Arrive at airport 45mins before departure (as per recommendation) same as always - done this many, many times. Step up to the bag drop (QFF bag tags) to check single bag and machine can't read the tag. Readjust the tag orientation. Still can't read. All other bag drops occupied with queues. Readjust tag to point bar code at camera, still won't read. This goes on and on. Same tag as always used and used subsequently with no problem. Manage to attract attention of disinterested ground staff, who proceed to try exactly the same things. Eventually after many attempts, the bag drop machine decides to start working again and the bag is accepted. It starts being carried away on the conveyor, then stops, reverses and a message comes up on screen saying "Bag cannot be accepted at this time - see ground staff". It is now a few seconds less than 30mins before the schedule flight departure time.

I proceed to the ground staff and ask them to manually check the bag as the bag drop clearly doesn't work. They don't do this, but instead tap some keys and pick up a phone and call someone before telling me I should present myself at the Qantas service desk. Stand in a queue at the service desk operated by a single staff member (it is before 6am) for another 20mins during which my flight has now departed without me 3 minutes early at 5:47am (confirmed via Qantas app data). Service desk staff member has no idea why I've been sent there and appears extremely frustrated that I've been palmed off onto her by the baggage ground staff when she can't help me and has no idea what to suggest beyond "come back again tomorrow".

Flight missed, pay docked (> $800) by employer for "no show" missed flight. Qantas advise employer my fault for not allowing enough time to check in prior to flight. Complaint lodged with Qantas, which is never acknowledged or responded to in any way. Complaint lodged with ACA. Qantas again respond in same way as to employer. Vast quantities of evidence are presented to back the case including photographs of the error messages on the bag drop machine display and proof from the Qantas app they departed the plane 3 minutes early (which would have made all the difference to me making it in time despite the broken bag drop reader). Qantas simply ignore all the evidence and stick to the line that the customer did not leave enough time to check-in.

ACA acknowledge powerless to compel the airline to do anything, so that's the end. Ergo, Qantas and Donald Trump are the same. They can say and claim any garbage they like completely devoid of any truth and get away with it because they're unanswerable to any authority and can do whatever they wish, whenever they wish.

Moral of the story: When you eventually get screwed over by Qantas due in no part to any fault of your own (and you will, it's only a matter of time), don't bother wasting your life by complaining to them or the Airline Customer Advocate. Just book on Virgin instead. There is no point. It's as effective as reasoning with Donald Trump. I wasted 4 months of my life trying to get justice and ultimately got nowhere.

Wonder what would have happened if you had have just boarded your flight and left your luggage to fend for itself? Someone from Q would have had to have done something!

 

[farmboy]

As brief as I can this is what happened.
Regular weekly silver QFF flyer for work - charter flights. Arrive at airport 45mins before departure (as per recommendation) same as always - done this many, many times. Step up to the bag drop (QFF bag tags) to check single bag and machine can't read the tag. Readjust the tag orientation. Still can't read. All other bag drops occupied with queues. Readjust tag to point bar code at camera, still won't read. This goes on and on. Same tag as always used and used subsequently with no problem. Manage to attract attention of disinterested ground staff, who proceed to try exactly the same things. Eventually after many attempts, the bag drop machine decides to start working again and the bag is accepted. It starts being carried away on the conveyor, then stops, reverses and a message comes up on screen saying "Bag cannot be accepted at this time - see ground staff". It is now a few seconds less than 30mins before the schedule flight departure time.

I proceed to the ground staff and ask them to manually check the bag as the bag drop clearly doesn't work. They don't do this, but instead tap some keys and pick up a phone and call someone before telling me I should present myself at the Qantas service desk. Stand in a queue at the service desk operated by a single staff member (it is before 6am) for another 20mins during which my flight has now departed without me 3 minutes early at 5:47am (confirmed via Qantas app data). Service desk staff member has no idea why I've been sent there and appears extremely frustrated that I've been palmed off onto her by the baggage ground staff when she can't help me and has no idea what to suggest beyond "come back again tomorrow".

Flight missed, pay docked (> $800) by employer for "no show" missed flight. Qantas advise employer my fault for not allowing enough time to check in prior to flight. Complaint lodged with Qantas, which is never acknowledged or responded to in any way. Complaint lodged with ACA. Qantas again respond in same way as to employer. Vast quantities of evidence are presented to back the case including photographs of the error messages on the bag drop machine display and proof from the Qantas app they departed the plane 3 minutes early (which would have made all the difference to me making it in time despite the broken bag drop reader). Qantas simply ignore all the evidence and stick to the line that the customer did not leave enough time to check-in.

ACA acknowledge powerless to compel the airline to do anything, so that's the end. Ergo, Qantas and Donald Trump are the same. They can say and claim any garbage they like completely devoid of any truth and get away with it because they're unanswerable to any authority and can do whatever they wish, whenever they wish.

Moral of the story: When you eventually get screwed over by Qantas due in no part to any fault of your own (and you will, it's only a matter of time), don't bother wasting your life by complaining to them or the Airline Customer Advocate. Just book on Virgin instead. There is no point. It's as effective as reasoning with Donald Trump. I wasted 4 months of my life trying to get justice and ultimately got nowhere.

I would never give up. There is nothing to lose now, so take your time and persist. I would write several polite short letters to the heirarchy, the MD, the customer service CEO, etc. Indicate that you have sent multiple letters but don't say to whom. And keep doing it. I did this once with a bank complaint, I heard nothing for a long time, and then got total satisfaction when the local manager (who I had NOT contacted) called and said my "letter had been around the world".
Its incidents like this that make us realise just how good the good ones are.
I'm currently waiting (six weeks) for a refund on a flight that Qantas cancelled. If they think I have gone away.....
I would say holding cash from cancelled flights would be quite a nice little earner for them.

 

[justin23]

WTF are qantas doing when a single passenger is at a machine for 15 minutes, and they do not notice this...

I'm not sure this is Qantas' fault. Why is anyone stuffing around on a machine for 15 minutes as well. I'd have sought help, gone to another machine or got a paper bag tag, within 2-3 failures.

I really would have given up after a few goes and printed a paper bag tag and be done with it imo.

This is the bit I don't understand, 15 minutes stuffing around on a machine.

If Qantas are to blame for this incident, it's for publishing 45 minutes as the recommended arrival time. I think that's too short - if 30 minutes is the drop dead bag closure time, 15 minutes is not enough time for everybody to be arriving in the terminal and checking their bags.

I agree, I never ever rely on those timings. You only have to get caught up or delayed for a few minutes and you miss your flight. Even getting to the airport, when there is no traffic as its earlier in the morning and all of a sudden, you get stuck in a long queue for an RBT, or roadworks or an accident. The fact that it can be done doesn't mean It can always be done in that time.

I feel the story is missing some objectiveness. I wouldn't have just stood in a queue either if I knew the cutoff time. Sure Qantas should take some of the blame for this, but so should the OP, who self-noted his amazing situational awareness, but failed to use any of it.

 

[Diadrat5]

I looked at this but the queues were even longer at the baggage kiosks. Twice as many people don't have Q-tags than do, even on FIFO charter flights. My best and only option was to continue with the faulty bag drop machine where I was.

I use the Q-tag to secure the bags of fertiliser I purchase from the local nursery.

 

[stoney]

HLO is Hand Luggage Only.

I clearly wasn’t there and don’t know the airport Setup. Having flown out of a small airports only about 5 times, I would still be there well before the cutoff time. Sometimes will checkin and drop bags and then Take car back out to explore.

EDIT: I’d be at Perth airport more than 45mins before flight with bags.

Come on, give Legoman a break. The guy does this flight every week or so, he knows the system inside out on his particular route. I think he is quite capable of responding to the unjust criticism himself but I find it a poor form for members who have been around for a long time to take supercilious stance. Try to be helpful!

 

[clod]

If Qantas are to blame for this incident, it's for publishing 45 minutes as the recommended arrival time. I think that's too short - if 30 minutes is the drop dead bag closure time, 15 minutes is not enough time for everybody to be arriving in the terminal and checking their bags. They really should be saying 60 minutes with bags, 45 minutes HLO. AA for instance recommend double the cut off times (ie, their domestic bags close at T-45, they recommend T-90). I understand TSA is slower than ours but T-60 would be reasonable.

15 minutes is not enough time to allow for any setbacks - as this thread has documented.

I have a full time job and a part time job. Both have a little trueism that goes along the lines of " If you're not five minutes early then you're already late".

I've found it to be great advice over the years. Works for any situation from catching a plane to winning a gunfight.

Yeah right. A really late FIFO flight departs at 6am. If you think I'm getting up at 3am twice a week for Qantas's pleasure so I can explore around a carpark, you are very mistaken.

If that's what you need to do to ensure you don't lose eight hundred beer tickets and cop a month of angst trying to get them back then what's the harm? Go to bed earlier, miss MAFS. No biggie. Install Candycrush on your phone, borrow a library book, learn a language. All are a useful "waste" of time. Hmm except maybe Candycrush.

Alternatively, as I believe someone already said, change jobs. I have far worse hours than you and it sucks serious deck sometimes but most of the time I'm winning so I HTFU and stick with it.

Learn, or mourn. Your call.

 

[p--and--t]

I would have been annoyed and possibly quite angry at the time of the incident, possibly a day or two, and gone on to get if off my chest to a friend over a drink/dinner.

I'm in a rush to get to work, the b..... machine doesn't work, a possibly poorly trained operative gives you the wrong information and then I queued for no reason and missed my flight.

I'm annoyed at myself for not allowing enough time⏲ , I'm annoyed at the airline for not training their staff very well or being unlucky enough to strike one of their lower functioning operatives who could be trained to the eyeballs but never handles pressure well. I've tried the complaining bit, I've even tried to escalate to a third party. All to no avail.

Now I have two choices, decide that happens but I've still got a job, they got me there & back safely every week, unlikely to happen again, especially if I get to the airport 5 mins earlier and perhaps be a bit more street smart if the machine plays up again and move on because life is short and there are much more important things going on in my life...
..or..
..I could take the incident as a major affront to my whole being and beat my chest on a forum or two to try and evoke some sympathy to make me feel better which ultimately ends up just enraging me even more.

Life is a series of choices.

 

[beentheredonethat]

I don’t understand why so many people are being so nasty! The finger wagging tone of some of these posts I find gob smacking! The guy came up against a machine that should have been working and wasn’t and some employees who clearly weren’t doing their jobs efficiently. Give him a break and sit on your egos!

 

[mannej]

It is so easy to look at a thread in isolation. What a lot of these posts who comment about the tone of some of the responses fail to address is the pattern of posts from the OP, and not just in relation to this thread here.