Qantas orders six more 787s, plans to retire all 747s by 2020

[Isochronous]

QF will gobble those slots up and dominate the AU-Japan market.

 

[Himeno]

In respect of the HND flights wonder whether QF is looking at new flights (like a double daily to SYD which would avoid the current ground time), or transferring the BNE/MEL services from NRT.
I can't see VA seeking any of the flights given their other issues.

HND is generally more convenient for Tokyo traffic and domestic connections (eg. 60+ flights to Sapporo CTS and Fukuoka cough at HND versus under 20 (and mostly LCCs) at NRT

Qantas won't be able to move all their NRT flights to HND. One of the requirements to operate to HND is to continue operating to NRT. That's why QF started the BNE-NRT flight. At the time, they just had the SYD-NRT flight which was getting moved to HND. Under the HND slot rules, they had to keep a flight at NRT, so started BNE-NRT the day they moved SYD-NRT to HND.

At NRT, QF has connections to GK and JL. Though JL has far more domestic flights at HND.
The issue with HND is the lack of transport options to/from the airport between midnight and 5am.

With these new day slots, QF could run double daily on SYD-HND. 1 night, 1 day.
They could have a midday and evening departure from SYD, to arrive HND at 2200 (start of night slot period) and 0600 (start of day slot period)
Returns departing HND at midnight and 0800.

Then maybe get the other day slot (for all 3), since it seems unlikely VA would be able to operate a flight with that slot even if they asked for it, then shift MEL to HND and open PER-NRT to compete with the new ANA flight.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Can someone though please explain to me why QF don't want to replace with 747-8?

Cause you'd then have to fill them? Much easier to fill a 787 than find an extra 200 for a 747-8.

 

[Max Samuels]

The issue with HND is the lack of transport options to/from the airport between midnight and 5am.

Is HND 24/7? At any rate, at least a taxi is in the realm of possibility - NRT also has nothing after 11pm or so and a few times I have had to get a taxi into Tokyo because my flight arrived so late.

 

[Himeno]

Is HND 24/7? At any rate, at least a taxi is in the realm of possibility - NRT also has nothing after 11pm or so and a few times I have had to get a taxi into Tokyo because my flight arrived so late.

HND is all day. There are vastly fewer flights during the overnight hours and flight paths are limited to coming in over Tokyo Bay.
NRT has a curfew and closes overnight.
Both train lines to HND stop around midnight and start again around 5am. There are overnight buses, but the options and frequency of service is maybe 15% of that during the day.

 

[justinbrett]

I'd hardly call a grand total of 47 orders for the 747-8i 'a lot of love'. Only three airlines (LH, KE and CA) operate the passenger versions. The whole project was a bit of a flop really...

Not really. Well, yes if you view the passenger variant in isolation, which you shouldn't (it's the same production line and Boeing couldn't care less which one it sells, as long as it sells). The 747-8F is rather popular and continues to get new orders every year. The A380F never saw the light of day.

I'd say the A380 program was much more of a flop - Who would have guessed 20 years ago airlines would be selling them for scrap when they're not even 15 years old? B747-8 will still be in production when A380 closes with current orders, and could be around much longer if they keep getting new orders.

Airbus has said it will never make back the $25 billion it invested in the program. The 747-8 program only cost $4 billion. As it was a new generation aircraft, not an entirely new aircraft, it is much more likely to turn a profit, or at least lose less, in the long run. So no, I wouldn't call it a flop.

 

[calmelb]

The 747-8F is rather popular and continues to get new orders every year.

Even Qantas just announced its ordered the 747-8F for Qantas Freight

 

[JessicaTam]

Even Qantas just announced its ordered the 747-8F for Qantas Freight

Just found a link: PICTURE: Qantas welcomes first 747-8F and here: Atlas Air Boeing 747-8F operating for Qantas Freight lands in Sydney

 

[justinbrett]

Even Qantas just announced its ordered the 747-8F for Qantas Freight

Well, it’s wet leasing them from Atlas, and will unfortunately have the Altas livery, not QF.

 

[calmelb]

Well, it’s wet leasing them from Atlas, and will unfortunately have the Altas livery, not QF.

It still has the QF Freight under the nose. Small difference but could be the start for QF to properly bring 747s into the Freight division. Especially as they retire the old 747-400ers it could be a conversion option for them later on

 

[moa999]

Well, it’s wet leasing them from Atlas, and will unfortunately have the Altas livery, not QF.

Mostly Atlas.. Atlas tail, body, undercarriage and blue engines.

But Qantas text and logo under pilots window, and logo below nose visible when the nose door is open...
Better than just the text they had on the older 747s

 

[moa999]

First of the 744 ERs being retired tonight with VH-OEF operating QF99

 

[Melburnian1]

moa999, could you kindly remind us of the timetable for each of the other QF B744 retirees?

 

[ozflier]

moa999, could you kindly remind us of the timetable for each of the other QF B744 retirees?

There can't be too many left.
I flew Santiago to Sydney last year on a 747 - now a 789.
Looks like the JNB to Sydney is still a 747 at least when I fly on it in june ,

 

[sudoer]

moa999, could you kindly remind us of the timetable for each of the other QF B744 retirees?

Here's a screenshot of the myairtrade listing (nicked from airliners.net). Expected retirement dates are in the 8th column YYMMDD format.



So the dates are:

1 Feb 2020
15 May 2020
1 Aug 2020
15 Oct 2020
15 Oct 2020
1 Dec 2020

Obviously that's contingent on 787 deliveries though..

There can't be too many left.

Five left: VH-OEE, VH-OEG, VH-OEH, VH-OEI, VH-OEJ

 

[ozflier]

Here's a screenshot of the myairtrade listing (nicked from airliners.net). Expected retirement dates are in the 8th column YYMMDD format.

View attachment 205741

So the dates are:

1 Feb 2020
15 May 2020
1 Aug 2020
15 Oct 2020
15 Oct 2020
1 Dec 2020

Obviously that's contingent on 787 deliveries though..



Five left: VH-OEE, VH-OEG, VH-OEH, VH-OEI, VH-OEJ

Ta for your factual reply.

 

[Scarlett]

So -OEF is retiring on 1 Feb...
(looks at calendar)
Typical QF; late for their own funeral.

The goings on in Wuhan and Government charter flights notwithstanding...

 

[moa999]

Obviously that's contingent on 787 deliveries though..

Only 3 of those left on order, all for mid-year delivery.
The three are currently 30, 46 and 62 slots away from parts arriving on the production list on the airliners.net forum with current production at 12/month

Delivery of these 3 probably line up pretty closely with the next 3 747 retirements listed above.

Typical QF; late for their own funeral.

That list was from over 12 months from a Aircraft Sale site. Doubt QF has had many bites. At best they were only ever indicative.

Key point is that versus this Xmas period QF will be down 6 747s, but only up 3 787s, so there has been some speculation that some 747s may be held over until 2021 for retirement - or routes will need to be cut versus this Xmas
(Of course if corona virus is still going that may not be a concern)

 

[harvyk]

<snip> so there has been some speculation that some 747s may be held over until 2021 for retirement - or routes will need to be cut versus this Xmas

I've certainly heard that rumor. I guess time will tell.

 

[Captain Halliday]

I have a booking 28 Dec, 2020 and it’s currently showing as a 744.

Knowing the airframes are going I’m torn between the nose or upstairs.