Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[mviy]

There's an assumption there on frequency...

Ah yes. That would be assuming daily flights in each direction. They theoretically could start flights less often, but with the expense and presumably rules around slots in LHR and JFK they might not want to do that.

 

[moa999]

Suspect the first 3-4 aircraft will be delivered in rapid succession. It's not technically a new type (though new to Qantas), just an additional fuel tank, and used on shorter (NZ, maybe MEL-SIN) routes to boost crew hours, then quickly switched into a pattern.

 

[mviy]

It is new to QF though. An article I read suggested shorter flights would help get crews familiar with the aircraft faster ahead of the Sunrise flights.

 

[RooFlyer]

Would two be sufficient for SYD-LAX or PER-LHR while they await the third?

besides the physical capability of operating two I reckon they would wait for 3 to make absolutely sure there’s not going to be any major stuff ups with flights being cancelled etc.

Come to think of it, I think Vanessa Hudson said something along those lines not too long ago

 

[jpp42]

Ah yes. That would be assuming daily flights in each direction. They theoretically could start flights less often, but with the expense and presumably rules around slots in LHR and JFK they might not want to do that.

Wouldn't they just be using the existing slots currently used by PER-LHR and AKL-JFK ? It seems hard to believe those flights will continue once Sunrise gets going... those 787's can be deployed elsewhere.

 

[mviy]

Wouldn't they just be using the existing slots currently used by PER-LHR and AKL-JFK ? It seems hard to believe those flights will continue once Sunrise gets going... those 787's can be deployed elsewhere.

QF may wish to assess how those flights perform alongside Sunrise flights before making a decision like that

 

[thebmw]

Wouldn't they just be using the existing slots currently used by PER-LHR and AKL-JFK ? It seems hard to believe those flights will continue once Sunrise gets going... those 787's can be deployed elsewhere.

The previously announced plan was that QF9 would continue when Sunrise starts, and even get upgraded to Sunrise A350 once sufficient deliveries have been made.

 

[justinbrett]

Wouldn't they just be using the existing slots currently used by PER-LHR and AKL-JFK ? It seems hard to believe those flights will continue once Sunrise gets going... those 787's can be deployed elsewhere.

Not a chance PER-LHR is going anywhere. Most of the pax are ex-PER and is very profitable.

QF has two more LHR slot pairs on lease to BA which they’ve given recall notices for.

AKL-JFK may survive, it is also doing well with ex-NZ pax and VH has said they’d like to keep both. I reckon they’ll alternate between non stop and via AKL to start with to see how it goes (also means they can use 789s on the AKL days)

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Would be nice if VH put these starting a350s into domestic ops, so we could try it out, when QF gets them.
Even if its MEL - SYD, or MEL - BNE, or BNE - MEL, or vv or to PER and back.
So far, I have not ever yet sat on a domestic ops b787.
That Thu PER - MEL QFd one seems to have stopped now, was on AFF that there was that one every Thu, but the QF timetable seems to put it back to the b737 now.

 

[moa999]

put these starting a350s into domestic ops, so we could try it out, when QF gets them.

Don't see these operating domestically generally, remember the 350-1000 dimensionally is 30cm wider and about 3m longer than a 747-400. Need international terminal gates for this.

 

[mviy]

I would not be surprised if they pull the A380 off SIN-LHR and fly the 787/A350 BNE-SIN-LHR, and use the A380 for flights MEL/SYD-SIN if the loads do not remain high enough for SIN-LHR on the A380 after Sunrise starts.

 

[RB001]

ET has that article referring to "first" destinations as NZ, based on conversation with VH.

 

[moa999]

A380 after Sunrise starts

Think it's a real question as to what happens with the A380s once Sunrise launches - and it's I guess subject to how many pax Qantas pulls from other airlines versus themselves for the Sunrise services.

I certainly struggle to see the need for all 10 A380s once Qantas has the full complement of 12 350s (say late 2029), and maybe even the F cabin gets removed for more Y seating?

How Qantas operates the London slots probably isn't a question for a few years.
You need three aircraft to operate SYD-LHR daily, a fourth probably lets you operate SYD-LHR, and SYD-JFK but it's very tight for maintenance so JFK is maybe 5/wk. Then you can start adding MEL routes.

 

[GDSman]

Would be nice if VH put these starting a350s into domestic ops, so we could try it out, when QF gets them.
Even if its MEL - SYD, or MEL - BNE, or BNE - MEL, or vv or to PER and back.
So far, I have not ever yet sat on a domestic ops b787.
That Thu PER - MEL QFd one seems to have stopped now, was on AFF that there was that one every Thu, but the QF timetable seems to put it back to the b737 now.

When QF introduced the 787 they flew MEL-BNE vv for several months for crew familiarisation. I was working for a BNE based company and flew them regularly and as a WP was able to select W seating when flying Y (as W not sold on that sector).

 

[sevenfourtyseven]

I remember the crew familiarisation flights on standard domestic runs between MEL and PER too. Had a couple of flights in the PE seats, with the full international service.

 

[elanshin]

Think it's a real question as to what happens with the A380s once Sunrise launches - and it's I guess subject to how many pax Qantas pulls from other airlines versus themselves for the Sunrise services.

I certainly struggle to see the need for all 10 A380s once Qantas has the full complement of 12 350s (say late 2029), and maybe even the F cabin gets removed for more Y seating?

Assume its 2030 at least before all a350-1000 are delivered possibly even later, you'd hope QF has a better fleet reliability at this point as the 330 replacement have also started rolling in (b787-10 and a350-900) then under perfect conditions QF may look at potentially scaling some 380 ops back. But I don't think they'll be retiring the 380s until mid 2030s at least not until the fleet transition is mainly over.

We saw what happened when the 747s were phased out early and the subsequent 787s were late. Globally we see the 777-300 fleet being stretched much longer now with 777X delays. I don't think QF will want to get rid of airframes that are useful until they are out of life or they have their fleet situation fixed.

How Qantas operates the London slots probably isn't a question for a few years.
You need three aircraft to operate SYD-LHR daily, a fourth probably lets you operate SYD-LHR, and SYD-JFK but it's very tight for maintenance so JFK is maybe 5/wk. Then you can start adding MEL routes.

They could easily do a situation with say 5 days direct to LHR initially after crew training/familiarisation roles with 2 aircraft rotation. If demand necessitates more, a temporary 787 via SIN to use up the slot as well for the other days.

 

[jpp42]

When QF introduced the 787 they flew MEL-BNE vv for several months for crew familiarisation.

But as noted above, the 787 is a lot smaller than the A350. The 787 wingspan is 60.1m, slightly less than the A330 (60.3m). Since Qantas has A330 gates at domestic terminals those can likely accommodate the 787. And the 787-9's length of 62.8m is similar to the A330-300 at 63.4 (though not sure if the -300's are/were ever used at domestic gates?).

The A350's wingspan at 64.75 and length of 73.9 m (for the -1000) is a substantially larger plane, and only the A380 has a larger wingspan - I suspect you'll find A350-1000's primarily using A380 gates as a result.

 

[Daver6]

But as noted above, the 787 is a lot smaller than the A350. The 787 wingspan is 60.1m, slightly less than the A330 (60.3m). Since Qantas has A330 gates at domestic terminals those can likely accommodate the 787. And the 787-9's length of 62.8m is similar to the A330-300 at 63.4 (though not sure if the -300's are/were ever used at domestic gates?).

The A350's wingspan at 64.75 and length of 73.9 m (for the -1000) is a substantially larger plane, and only the A380 has a larger wingspan - I suspect you'll find A350-1000's primarily using A380 gates as a result.

SYD and PER domestic can accommodate 747-300s as QF used them domestically in the 2000s

 

[SYD]

SYD and PER domestic can accommodate 747-300s as QF used them domestically in the 2000s

Google tells me they were only 60m. Who knew…

Edit: but SYD T3 can handle a 744 at Gate 10 and 11.

IFATC Info - Airport Gates

www.ifatc.org

 

[jrfsp]

SYD and PER domestic can accommodate 747-300s as QF used them domestically in the 2000s

And 400s after that