Qantas removes Lounge Access for QP members on EK flights from Oct 1

[michaele]

For most Australians, they should really already be booking the QF-coded flights anyway, and supporting Qantas! As pointed out by Princess Fiona, you can't get QF-coded award flights though, so there's a problem there, but for the most part people are paying cash.

I was under the impression awards flights were coded EK on EK metal, not QF codeshares. Whenever looking at BNE-AKL the EK A380 was a EK flight number. It has been that way for quite some time. As for the 'should be booking QF-coded flights'.. we are hugely in the minority. The bulk of seasonal travelers book almost entirely based on a price point.

 

[mannej]

Was this a benefit they had in their promises to the ACCC when regulatory approvl was given for the alliance? Perhaps we should all complain to the ACCC tat they aren't honouring their promises they made.

Dale.
https://outandabout.com.au

Lounge access on an EK flight number was never part of QP membership prior to the JV, so I don't know if the promise was part of the approval.
I don't see what the ACCC would do in any case. QP members have already lost out considering the fact that they cannot access an EK lounge on a QF flight number whilst in the EU, where as you were able to do it with BA (forgetting the final chapter).

 

[BD1959]

Lounge access on an EK flight number was never part of QP membership prior to the JV, so I don't know if the promise was part of the approval.
I don't see what the ACCC would do in any case. QP members have already lost out considering the fact that they cannot access an EK lounge on a QF flight number whilst in the EU, where as you were able to do it with BA (forgetting the final chapter).

Whilst QP membership was never mentioned (unsurprisingly), the Final Determination was granted on the basis that "the Coordination Agreement provides for the applicants to coordinate broadly across their passenger and cargo transport operations, including in relation to: .... all passenger-related aspects to provide a superior, consistent level of service to customers including ground services and lounge access"

What did that mean in reality? Well, QF told us ... in their Qantas and Emirates Partnership FAQs: "Qantas Club members will have access to Qantas International Business Lounges in Australia and to the American Airlines Admirals Lounge at London Heathrow T3 when their next onward flight is with Qantas (QF) or Emirates (EK) to Dubai".

FAQ Qantas ... If I was QP and ticketed at Christmas on an EK flight with the expectation of using the Lounge, I'd be contacting the ACCC immediately.

Regards,

BD

 

[Princess Fiona]

Another little change - If you were Platinum or above and passing through Dubai, you could take two children (+ a guest, probably one's wife ... ;-)) into the Emirates First lounge.
Now "all children counted towards guest numbers".
View attachment 31969

That stinks ...as we will be traveling as a family through DXB in two weeks time...

Or does it - from elsewhere on the Qantas site (Platinum benefits page):

View attachment 31970

Red Roo...please can you confirm - this seems to be contradictory?

I've asked the same question on FT recently as I will be taking my two youngest through DXB in Sep and the answer from the Skywards Board over there was that it would be OK.

No guarantees I guess but at least that's something

 

[BD1959]

For most Australians, they should really already be booking the QF-coded flights anyway, and supporting Qantas!

Why?

I don't recall Alan Joyce gleefully announcing "this is an amazing Partnership for Emirates and Qantas but only if Australians buy the QF-coded flights on Emirates metal".

Joyce made the decision to stop QF flying to Germany. Joyce made the decision to tear up the JV with BA on which the two airlines REVENUE SHARED and encourage people to book EK instead.

Qantas Media Release of 6 September 2012 calls it an "AN INTEGRATED PARTNERSHIP" (their capitals). Joyce continues "(A NEW ERA PARTNERSHIP) ... It is far bigger than a codeshare. Or even a joint services agreement."

"will include integrated network collaboration with coordinated pricing, sales and scheduling and a benefit-sharing model."

Lastly "Qantas and Emirates will be working together to make the most of the array of opportunities and it’s going to be good for Australia." - There you have it from the horses mouth!! The Partnership is good for Australia.

Really, samh004, you can't really blame Australians for taking Alan Joyce at his word.

Regards,

BD

 

[blackcat20]

QF might get more pax booking QF codes if QF prices were at least competitive...

It was $1000 more for a QF code from Rome to Dubai...not worth it by a long shot.

 

[robs12]

I've asked the same question on FT recently as I will be taking my two youngest through DXB in Sep and the answer from the Skywards Board over there was that it would be OK.

No guarantees I guess but at least that's something

Many thanks Princess, let's cross our fingers!

 

[Danger]

More examples of Qantas:

1) reacting to the disease rather than being proactive and addressing the cause;
2) taking the government for a ride, spinning propaganda to get their way (ie. the ACCC now and at the time of the JV announcement; appeals to the federal government earlier this year);
3) eroding more and more benefits, and;
4) completely disregarding their own T&Cs with respect to three months' notice.

 

[777]

For most Australians, they should really already be booking the QF-coded flights anyway, and supporting Qantas!

I can't think of even a vague reason why Australians should pay extra for a QF coded flight if the product is the same.

Why shouldn't most Australians just send Alan Joyce $20 a month instead?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Silly Qantas. The commercials are around the wrong way.

They should have been *charging* EK for QP members. Like: if a customer books with Emirates directly but puts their QFF number into the res - clearly lounge access is a factor in the booking that is a direct result of QF. In this case - the customer belongs to QF and QF should be charging accordingly for what is essentially a referral (or at least ensuring EK provide free lounge to these pax).

From 5 minutes of thinking about this I would have left lounge access in place but made it a requirement that the EK flight needed to be booked through Qantas.com. This way the user is trained to use the QF website, user will be happy to pay a few extra bucks, QF pockets the extra revenue as pure cream, takes their standard ref% from the res which they would otherwise miss out on - AND kill off non-profitable QC members using EK in the process. Win Win Win Win!

But instead - they're cutting off a % of customers who will now:
- not renew QC membership
- not fly QF or codeshares
- really dislike QF (ie: perth pax)
- were close to having silver/gold but now that trip to overseas has no lounge access, is worth considering other options

Sure I don't have hard numbers infront of me but I can't see the very very small% of customers that will now book QF# will outweigh the lost opportunities.
Keeping in mind when you piss off a customer - you lose their points earning from credit cards as well as flights - and winning that customer back isn't as easy as double points/some promo. The opportunity cost is much larger than a few lounge entries.

 

[medhead]

the children access change is a complete joke.

 

[Sequel]

Another little change - If you were Platinum or above and passing through Dubai, you could take two children (+ a guest, probably one's wife ... ;-)) into the Emirates First lounge.
Now "all children counted towards guest numbers".

When looking at booking the family trip to Europe this year, when I found out "kids count as guest" with VA/SQ/EY, I shifted my booking to QF. It effectively means no lounge access at all for a family of 4 for the yearly family trip. Can't really leave the wife and 4yo outside!

This is just another reason not to pay the premium to fly QF when there are cheaper options which are now no worse and in many ways better.

 

[UP4014]

Why?

I don't recall Alan Joyce gleefully announcing "this is an amazing Partnership for Emirates and Qantas but only if Australians buy the QF-coded flights on Emirates metal".

Joyce made the decision to stop QF flying to Germany. Joyce made the decision to tear up the JV with BA on which the two airlines REVENUE SHARED and encourage people to book EK instead.

Qantas Media Release of 6 September 2012 calls it an "AN INTEGRATED PARTNERSHIP" (their capitals). Joyce continues "(A NEW ERA PARTNERSHIP) ... It is far bigger than a codeshare. Or even a joint services agreement."

"will include integrated network collaboration with coordinated pricing, sales and scheduling and a benefit-sharing model."

Lastly "Qantas and Emirates will be working together to make the most of the array of opportunities and it’s going to be good for Australia." - There you have it from the horses mouth!! The Partnership is good for Australia.

Really, samh004, you can't really blame Australians for taking Alan Joyce at his word.

Regards,

BD

I'm looking forward to the day Red Roo comes on here and announces a Mr Joyce is departing the building one more time. The enhancements will be complete.

Matt

 

[codash1099]

This is just more of the salami tactics. Just a little sliced off at a time.

And the fact that it is dome without any public announcement (just like some of the other thin slices they've taken) indicates a degree of dishonesty.

Samh004 - I was always prepared to support Qantas and pay that little bit more. But now it's usually a lot more and the loyalty and give and take is not reciprocated. You can only put up with so much.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And the fact that it is dome without any public announcement (just like some of the other thin slices they've taken) indicates a degree of dishonesty.

Excellent point.

I just received my 'July points balance and latest news' - which we are told we must rely on for all sorts of important information. But there is nothing about the change to lounge access.

So people might continue to book EK flights, thinking they will get QC access... but then find out they can't.

This to me seems like a bit of a fail. Do we rely on the 'latest news' or not? QF can't have it both ways.

This seems to confirm that the 'latest news' really means 'good news'. So I expect a lot of people don't really look for things like points expiry in these types of documents.

 

[Mac502]

My reading of the access rule change also implies you need to be on QF code for Admiral's club access, not just flying on American. What do others think?

 

[drron]

Another little change - If you were Platinum or above and passing through Dubai, you could take two children (+ a guest, probably one's wife ... ;-)) into the Emirates First lounge.
Now "all children counted towards guest numbers".
View attachment 31969

That stinks ...as we will be traveling as a family through DXB in two weeks time...

Or does it - from elsewhere on the Qantas site (Platinum benefits page):

View attachment 31970

Red Roo...please can you confirm - this seems to be contradictory?

You can relax.The first rule you quote is from the Qantas Club section.The way I read it even if you are on a QF codeshare or QF flight as a QP member you can only have 1 guest and children count in Dubai or other EK lounges.If it is a QF run lounge the kids are fine.
If you are SG,WP or WP1 then you obviously have different conditions to someone relying just on their QP.Your second quote is the rule for you.

Fortunately this does not affect me as will not be flying Y,EK or via Dubai.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

My reading of the access rule change also implies you need to be on QF code for Admiral's club access, not just flying on American. What do others think?

Yes it is slightly confusing, but the two aspects are separate.

under 'eligibility and access' it says you will have lounge access whenever flying QF or JQ, and then it lists the lounges. It is giving reassurance that any QF/JQ flight will continue to have lounges.

However you will also have access to lounges when flying AA via the agreement with AAdmirals club.

Two separate concepts.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

Yes... you are correct. The new wording states you can only access AAdmirals Clubs in London and other locations when travelling on a QF or JQ flight number.

The text on the changes only focusses on EK flights, so I'm tending to think the AAdmirals Clud lounges are a bit of a mistake.

If it's true, massive change.

I'm pretty sure as I posted up thread that there is no intention of removing AA club access for QP flying on AA ex-LHR.
It's just very poorly worded and only intended to reflect the changes in the arrangements at LHR for EK passengers.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

I'm pretty sure as I posted up thread that there is no intention of removing AA club access for QP flying on AA ex-LHR.
It's just very poorly worded and only intended to reflect the changes in the arrangements at LHR for EK passengers.

indeed.... edited my post accordingly.